Anonymous
02/19/2014 22:03
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
^ agree
It is also perfectly fine in an ad to say it is a job of x hours with an avg rate of y for that period. Then use the contract to specify the details. This is still not hiding anything but much more likely to happen than advertising a rate downto the Penney.
It is also perfectly fine in an ad to say it is a job of x hours with an avg rate of y for that period. Then use the contract to specify the details. This is still not hiding anything but much more likely to happen than advertising a rate downto the Penney.
Anonymous
02/19/2014 20:19
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
nannydebsays wrote:Anonymous wrote:The only problem with some of the above scenarios/posts are communication and semantics.
If a person gets paid 13.66 per hour and is routinely scheduled to work 50 hrs per week, then they make $13.66 per hour plus applicable overtime pay. This averages to $15 per week.
If an employer advertises in exactly this language -- "Base Pay X, Overtime Hours are Such, Weekly Salary is Y" then there's no problem. Likewise, nannys should be making the same full statement when they cite what they are paid.
All else is shorthand.
The thing is, most household employers have NO CLUE they have to follow OT laws, and so they don't advertise in such specific language. They make the mistake of paying a weekly rate without breaking down straight time/OT, in which case, if the arrangement ends badly, nanny may take her case to a wage and labor board and win tons of back OT pay.
And many many nannies also have NO CLUE they are covered by FLSA. They seek out a weekly ratr that they are happy with, and don't care about OT, since they are earning what they want to earn.
Frankly, most nanny employers cannot/will not pay actual OT. If a magic wand was waved tonight and every nanny in the land suddenly got the OT she has a "right" to earn tomorrow, then Friday there would be a ton of unemployed nannies.
What do you mea by "actual OT"? As has been explained ad nauseum, backing into a base rate and OT rate based on a desired weekly salary or average wage is perfectly legal and ethical, as long as all parties have agreed to the arrangement.
nannydebsays
02/19/2014 16:38
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
Anonymous wrote:The only problem with some of the above scenarios/posts are communication and semantics.
If a person gets paid 13.66 per hour and is routinely scheduled to work 50 hrs per week, then they make $13.66 per hour plus applicable overtime pay. This averages to $15 per week.
If an employer advertises in exactly this language -- "Base Pay X, Overtime Hours are Such, Weekly Salary is Y" then there's no problem. Likewise, nannys should be making the same full statement when they cite what they are paid.
All else is shorthand.
The thing is, most household employers have NO CLUE they have to follow OT laws, and so they don't advertise in such specific language. They make the mistake of paying a weekly rate without breaking down straight time/OT, in which case, if the arrangement ends badly, nanny may take her case to a wage and labor board and win tons of back OT pay.
And many many nannies also have NO CLUE they are covered by FLSA. They seek out a weekly ratr that they are happy with, and don't care about OT, since they are earning what they want to earn.
Frankly, most nanny employers cannot/will not pay actual OT. If a magic wand was waved tonight and every nanny in the land suddenly got the OT she has a "right" to earn tomorrow, then Friday there would be a ton of unemployed nannies.
Anonymous
02/19/2014 12:36
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
The only problem with some of the above scenarios/posts are communication and semantics.
If a person gets paid 13.66 per hour and is routinely scheduled to work 50 hrs per week, then they make $13.66 per hour plus applicable overtime pay. This averages to $15 per week.
If an employer advertises in exactly this language -- "Base Pay X, Overtime Hours are Such, Weekly Salary is Y" then there's no problem. Likewise, nannys should be making the same full statement when they cite what they are paid.
All else is shorthand.
If a person gets paid 13.66 per hour and is routinely scheduled to work 50 hrs per week, then they make $13.66 per hour plus applicable overtime pay. This averages to $15 per week.
If an employer advertises in exactly this language -- "Base Pay X, Overtime Hours are Such, Weekly Salary is Y" then there's no problem. Likewise, nannys should be making the same full statement when they cite what they are paid.
All else is shorthand.
Anonymous
02/19/2014 12:24
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
Anonymous wrote:If option 4 was so readily available, then there would be zero nannies on here talking about this issue.
So you're saying that if option number 4 was common (which it is), then there would be zero cases that fell outside of it?
Logic fail.
Anonymous
02/18/2014 09:20
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
If option 4 was so readily available, then there would be zero nannies on here talking about this issue.
Anonymous
02/18/2014 08:00
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
Anonymous wrote:Look, this comes down to a balancing act.
1 - Nannies want a guaranteed paycheck each week.
2 - Parents want to pay a reasonable hourly wage, but may require more than 40 hours per week.
3 - Nannies usually want all of the hours available in a single week, not just the first 40.
4 - If the hours of overtime became too costly to parents, parents could forego having a nanny at all OR split the job into a 4 day/wk nanny job and a 1 day/week nanny job.
5 - It bears repeating: nannies want a guaranteed paycheck every week.
Here's how these factors work together. Parent has a budget of $750/week for childcare. Nanny wants to earn $750/week. Parents need up to 50 hrs of care/week. Parents and nanny agree to a 50 hr week at $750, then work backward to hourly rate plus OT. For hours in excess of 50, parents will be paying the OT rate. With this arrangement typically comes guaranteed hours, meaning that if nanny gets sent home an hour early one day, she'll still make her $750 for the week and won't have that hour of higher OT rate deducted from her check. Nanny makes a minimum of $750/week, parents stay within budget.
Alternate scenario: same $750 budget, same need for up to 50 hrs of care. The difference: nanny candidate is firm in her mind that she wants $15/hr base rate and time and a half ($22.50) beyond that. Parents decide to (1) split job into M-Th nanny, Friday nanny; instead of $750/wk, nanny candidate will now get $600 while another nanny earns the other $150 AND gets all the calls for extra sitting because it won't cost parents the OT rate; or (2) parents move on to another candidate entirely who understands the average hourly rate; or (3) parents contort themselves into a different schedule than suits their needs in order to stay within budget, but find it unworkable, and the "$15/hr firm!" nanny gets replaced. Also, parents never ask the "$15/hr firm!" to work extra hours because the OT rate is just cost prohibitive. This is not a win for the nanny.
If you get upset because your hourly rate is "beneath" you, then look for another job.
You forgot option 4) Nanny is hired by a family who can actually afford her rate, value her work, and keep her on long-term, usually including raises and bonuses. Because the family was not pinching pennies to hire the nanny in the first place, this actually has potential to turn into a long-term job, as opposed to only 1-3 years until the child goes to full-day preschool.
Anonymous
02/18/2014 07:40
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
Agree with 14:03.
Also agree with next pp that parents should not be trying to trick the nanny. This is why a CONTRACT is vital - you can see clearly in black and white then if you are both saying the same thing or not.
Also agree with next pp that parents should not be trying to trick the nanny. This is why a CONTRACT is vital - you can see clearly in black and white then if you are both saying the same thing or not.
Anonymous
02/17/2014 21:00
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
Anonymous wrote:Look, this comes down to a balancing act.
1 - Nannies want a guaranteed paycheck each week.
2 - Parents want to pay a reasonable hourly wage, but may require more than 40 hours per week.
3 - Nannies usually want all of the hours available in a single week, not just the first 40.
4 - If the hours of overtime became too costly to parents, parents could forego having a nanny at all OR split the job into a 4 day/wk nanny job and a 1 day/week nanny job.
5 - It bears repeating: nannies want a guaranteed paycheck every week.
Here's how these factors work together. Parent has a budget of $750/week for childcare. Nanny wants to earn $750/week. Parents need up to 50 hrs of care/week. Parents and nanny agree to a 50 hr week at $750, then work backward to hourly rate plus OT. For hours in excess of 50, parents will be paying the OT rate. With this arrangement typically comes guaranteed hours, meaning that if nanny gets sent home an hour early one day, she'll still make her $750 for the week and won't have that hour of higher OT rate deducted from her check. Nanny makes a minimum of $750/week, parents stay within budget.
Alternate scenario: same $750 budget, same need for up to 50 hrs of care. The difference: nanny candidate is firm in her mind that she wants $15/hr base rate and time and a half ($22.50) beyond that. Parents decide to (1) split job into M-Th nanny, Friday nanny; instead of $750/wk, nanny candidate will now get $600 while another nanny earns the other $150 AND gets all the calls for extra sitting because it won't cost parents the OT rate; or (2) parents move on to another candidate entirely who understands the average hourly rate; or (3) parents contort themselves into a different schedule than suits their needs in order to stay within budget, but find it unworkable, and the "$15/hr firm!" nanny gets replaced. Also, parents never ask the "$15/hr firm!" to work extra hours because the OT rate is just cost prohibitive. This is not a win for the nanny.
If you get upset because your hourly rate is "beneath" you, then look for another job.
I'm not a nanny, so this isn't about something being "beneath" me -- but keep making things up to suit your point.
Obviously if you agree on a weekly rate, then it's all good -- do what you need to do in order to get there.
What I'm talking about are employers who advertise a certain rate, and discuss a certain rate, then try to get out of paying overtime with the "backing out" trick -- aka fudging the numbers in order to avoid paying over time.
It happens a LOT and it's wrong.
Anonymous
02/17/2014 14:03
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
Look, this comes down to a balancing act.
1 - Nannies want a guaranteed paycheck each week.
2 - Parents want to pay a reasonable hourly wage, but may require more than 40 hours per week.
3 - Nannies usually want all of the hours available in a single week, not just the first 40.
4 - If the hours of overtime became too costly to parents, parents could forego having a nanny at all OR split the job into a 4 day/wk nanny job and a 1 day/week nanny job.
5 - It bears repeating: nannies want a guaranteed paycheck every week.
Here's how these factors work together. Parent has a budget of $750/week for childcare. Nanny wants to earn $750/week. Parents need up to 50 hrs of care/week. Parents and nanny agree to a 50 hr week at $750, then work backward to hourly rate plus OT. For hours in excess of 50, parents will be paying the OT rate. With this arrangement typically comes guaranteed hours, meaning that if nanny gets sent home an hour early one day, she'll still make her $750 for the week and won't have that hour of higher OT rate deducted from her check. Nanny makes a minimum of $750/week, parents stay within budget.
Alternate scenario: same $750 budget, same need for up to 50 hrs of care. The difference: nanny candidate is firm in her mind that she wants $15/hr base rate and time and a half ($22.50) beyond that. Parents decide to (1) split job into M-Th nanny, Friday nanny; instead of $750/wk, nanny candidate will now get $600 while another nanny earns the other $150 AND gets all the calls for extra sitting because it won't cost parents the OT rate; or (2) parents move on to another candidate entirely who understands the average hourly rate; or (3) parents contort themselves into a different schedule than suits their needs in order to stay within budget, but find it unworkable, and the "$15/hr firm!" nanny gets replaced. Also, parents never ask the "$15/hr firm!" to work extra hours because the OT rate is just cost prohibitive. This is not a win for the nanny.
If you get upset because your hourly rate is "beneath" you, then look for another job.
1 - Nannies want a guaranteed paycheck each week.
2 - Parents want to pay a reasonable hourly wage, but may require more than 40 hours per week.
3 - Nannies usually want all of the hours available in a single week, not just the first 40.
4 - If the hours of overtime became too costly to parents, parents could forego having a nanny at all OR split the job into a 4 day/wk nanny job and a 1 day/week nanny job.
5 - It bears repeating: nannies want a guaranteed paycheck every week.
Here's how these factors work together. Parent has a budget of $750/week for childcare. Nanny wants to earn $750/week. Parents need up to 50 hrs of care/week. Parents and nanny agree to a 50 hr week at $750, then work backward to hourly rate plus OT. For hours in excess of 50, parents will be paying the OT rate. With this arrangement typically comes guaranteed hours, meaning that if nanny gets sent home an hour early one day, she'll still make her $750 for the week and won't have that hour of higher OT rate deducted from her check. Nanny makes a minimum of $750/week, parents stay within budget.
Alternate scenario: same $750 budget, same need for up to 50 hrs of care. The difference: nanny candidate is firm in her mind that she wants $15/hr base rate and time and a half ($22.50) beyond that. Parents decide to (1) split job into M-Th nanny, Friday nanny; instead of $750/wk, nanny candidate will now get $600 while another nanny earns the other $150 AND gets all the calls for extra sitting because it won't cost parents the OT rate; or (2) parents move on to another candidate entirely who understands the average hourly rate; or (3) parents contort themselves into a different schedule than suits their needs in order to stay within budget, but find it unworkable, and the "$15/hr firm!" nanny gets replaced. Also, parents never ask the "$15/hr firm!" to work extra hours because the OT rate is just cost prohibitive. This is not a win for the nanny.
If you get upset because your hourly rate is "beneath" you, then look for another job.
Anonymous
02/17/2014 13:40
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
People don't really pay overtime. They get around this by dropping the non overtime rate way down so that overtime just brings the pay to the actual hourly average they want to pay. So they pay $12/hr and $18 for overtime and call it $14 an hour. If asked they say they pay $14/hr when really they don't. Most nannies should know this and either decide on what they want as a weekly rate and stick to it or they should discuss hourly pay, separate from overtime time. Because so few actually pay overtime, it is just part of the nanny culture to accept lower rates so that legally it can still look like overtime.
Anonymous
02/17/2014 13:08
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
^ disagree. It is not shady to set the contract this way unless nanny is being fooled in how much she makes each week. If nanny says "I want to make 700/week" in response to your ad for 45 hours then you do the math to make it fit - why is that bad?
Anonymous
02/17/2014 12:11
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
But seriously, people. Overtime laws are not in effect so people can find ways to skirt around them. No matter how you justify it, it is kind of shady.
Anonymous
02/17/2014 12:00
Subject: Re:Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
"Anonymous wrote:
Yes. Average hourly rate of $15 hr for a 50 hr work week. Before you get all twitchy about me not paying time and a half: we do. Base rate is $13.66, OT is that times 1.5. Week is consistently 50 hrs and if it goes over, we pay the OT rate. "
Also how we do it. All nannies we interviews spoke in terms of a weekly rate not hourly.
Same thing here.
Anonymous
02/17/2014 11:28
Subject: Employers are you paying time and a half after 40 hours??
Anonymous wrote:Can you imagine negotiating pay with a new employer, and having them pull this? For example, say your rate is $50/hour. You and your employer agree to this. Then, when they draw up the contract for the 50 hours, they say, "Look! We ARE paying overtime. Well, yeah, the total is $50 * 50 hours, but we fudged the numbers to make it work."
I've had this happen in the past. They werent too thrilled about me speaking up on it.