I didn't say you were stupid. But I didn't say anything close to "eating dinner with the host family every night is every AP's dream." Here's the post of yours I was responding to:

"Family dinner sounds nice yes. How does dinner with your boss sound after a long day at work? How does dinner with your boss and your "work" sound? How does dinner with your boss doing work at your place of business and having to "help" cleanup after, when what everyone wants to do after work is throw their shoes off and sit in peace and quiet for a moment before worrying about dinner, kids, or more work. Its not about bitterness, its just trying to get some of these host families wearing rose colored glasses that the situation isn't as lovely as you think it is. Your AP may enjoy the occasional dinner with your family, heck she may enjoy eating with you every night, but not every AP would and I don't think that makes them a bad employee. I was the oldest girl in my family. That meant my mom or I cooked dinner, and after everyone went about their merry way while I scrubbed dishes, out away the food, and cleared the table. But if you ask my family they all "pitched in" I'm sorry, I think it'd be really easy to slowly transfer after dinner responsibilities to your employee and it just doesn't sound fun for the AP."

In this post, you insinuated that all host parents treat their au pairs like employees who they can slowly shirk inappropriate work onto and then pretend it's under the guise of "being part of the family." And I strongly disagree that that's what all host families want to do.

I get frustrated because I work so hard to make sure to treat my au pair fairly. I cook dinner for her every night, I pay for all her expenses. All three of my au pairs have really enjoyed their year (or two) with our family in this program. This board is very helpful in getting responses and thoughts from other host parents and au pairs. And then I come on, and frequently hear from people who weren't even au pairs or host parents insinuating that we're all mistreating and overworking our poor au pairs. It's extremely frustrating.

I agree with you that some au pairs might not want to have dinner with their host parents. I agree with you that it's not ok to require your au pair to stick around after her shift to make dinner for the family and clean up after them. It's OK if an au pair doesn't want to eat dinner with her host family, but she needs to make sure she finds a host family that isn't going to be expecting that.

Being a live-in nanny is very different in many ways from being an au pair, even if you were the same age. The starting assumption when you are an au pair is that you are going to be "part of the family." You can be clear that you want to go against that assumption when you match (either as a host family or as an au pair), but the assumption remains that the au pair/host family relationship is going to be more like a family one than a boss/employer. As a live-in nanny, I would say the assumption leans the other way. It's a different starting place.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:40, you're generalizing. I agree that any host family that expects the au pair to eat dinner with them and then clean the whole thing up after them isn't going to have an au pair who wants to eat with the family. I agree that that is not the way the program is supposed to work and I agree that treating someone like that would be terrible. Just because that can (and does) happen doesn't mean that most host families are like that and would never dream of "slowly transfering after dinner responsibilities" to their au pair.

So setting all that aside.

The au pair program presents itself as "be a part of an American family!" It's what many au pairs want. Many au pairs don't want that, and that's fine too. It's one of the things you need to look at and think about when you are matching. But if you are a host family who has presented itself as one who eats dinner together every night and who wants an au pair who wants to spend time with the family, then it's a lovely thing. It's not a thing where the au pair feels obligated or thinks of it as eating with her boss in the workplace. I've heard of au pairs rematching BECAUSE their family didn't include them in stuff like dinners and activities.

Just because that doesn't sound like the kind of relationship you would want, don't assume that others wouldn't. Have you been an au pair? Do you understand what the program is? It's not nanny agency. It's a cultural exchange program too. You're SUPPOSED to be familial with your au pair. If you're not inviting her to dinner with the family, then you're not operating in the spirit of the program.

Yeah I'm generalizing but so are you assuming that this would be every APs dream. I'm just offering another perspective. I have been a live in nanny (at age 19, so AP age) and eating with the family was nice on occasion, but I often found myself doing the brunt of the work while my MB leaned on the counter talking and watching me work. Yes she was familial and a lovely woman, but those dinners weren't as fun as many MBs are thinking they are!

Did you miss where I said this?: "It's what many au pairs want. Many au pairs don't want that, and that's fine too. It's one of the things you need to look at and think about when you are matching." And where I agreed that allowing your au pair to do the "brunt of the work" while leaning on the counter watching is unacceptable?

Did you see where I said the same damn thing? Making your whole "you're generalizing" post unnecessary. You aren't saying anything new. But I'm the stupid one

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:40, you're generalizing. I agree that any host family that expects the au pair to eat dinner with them and then clean the whole thing up after them isn't going to have an au pair who wants to eat with the family. I agree that that is not the way the program is supposed to work and I agree that treating someone like that would be terrible. Just because that can (and does) happen doesn't mean that most host families are like that and would never dream of "slowly transfering after dinner responsibilities" to their au pair.

So setting all that aside.

The au pair program presents itself as "be a part of an American family!" It's what many au pairs want. Many au pairs don't want that, and that's fine too. It's one of the things you need to look at and think about when you are matching. But if you are a host family who has presented itself as one who eats dinner together every night and who wants an au pair who wants to spend time with the family, then it's a lovely thing. It's not a thing where the au pair feels obligated or thinks of it as eating with her boss in the workplace. I've heard of au pairs rematching BECAUSE their family didn't include them in stuff like dinners and activities.

Just because that doesn't sound like the kind of relationship you would want, don't assume that others wouldn't. Have you been an au pair? Do you understand what the program is? It's not nanny agency. It's a cultural exchange program too. You're SUPPOSED to be familial with your au pair. If you're not inviting her to dinner with the family, then you're not operating in the spirit of the program.

Yeah I'm generalizing but so are you assuming that this would be every APs dream. I'm just offering another perspective. I have been a live in nanny (at age 19, so AP age) and eating with the family was nice on occasion, but I often found myself doing the brunt of the work while my MB leaned on the counter talking and watching me work. Yes she was familial and a lovely woman, but those dinners weren't as fun as many MBs are thinking they are!

Did you miss where I said this?: "It's what many au pairs want. Many au pairs don't want that, and that's fine too. It's one of the things you need to look at and think about when you are matching." And where I agreed that allowing your au pair to do the "brunt of the work" while leaning on the counter watching is unacceptable?

Anonymous wrote:9:40, you're generalizing. I agree that any host family that expects the au pair to eat dinner with them and then clean the whole thing up after them isn't going to have an au pair who wants to eat with the family. I agree that that is not the way the program is supposed to work and I agree that treating someone like that would be terrible. Just because that can (and does) happen doesn't mean that most host families are like that and would never dream of "slowly transfering after dinner responsibilities" to their au pair.

So setting all that aside.

The au pair program presents itself as "be a part of an American family!" It's what many au pairs want. Many au pairs don't want that, and that's fine too. It's one of the things you need to look at and think about when you are matching. But if you are a host family who has presented itself as one who eats dinner together every night and who wants an au pair who wants to spend time with the family, then it's a lovely thing. It's not a thing where the au pair feels obligated or thinks of it as eating with her boss in the workplace. I've heard of au pairs rematching BECAUSE their family didn't include them in stuff like dinners and activities.

Just because that doesn't sound like the kind of relationship you would want, don't assume that others wouldn't. Have you been an au pair? Do you understand what the program is? It's not nanny agency. It's a cultural exchange program too. You're SUPPOSED to be familial with your au pair. If you're not inviting her to dinner with the family, then you're not operating in the spirit of the program.

Yeah I'm generalizing but so are you assuming that this would be every APs dream. I'm just offering another perspective. I have been a live in nanny (at age 19, so AP age) and eating with the family was nice on occasion, but I often found myself doing the brunt of the work while my MB leaned on the counter talking and watching me work. Yes she was familial and a lovely woman, but those dinners weren't as fun as many MBs are thinking they are!

For as much as some disgruntled APs harp about how they've been tricked into thinking this is a "cultural experience" and then are shocked to come and have to work -- there are an equal number of APs who come here wanting really nothing to do with their host families -- and seeing this really as a job and a roof over their head that gives them some spending money and ability to come and have fun in America with other APs.

I don't think there is anything wrong with this. APs come for many different reasons and with many different sets of expectations.

Dinner with the family is fun for some, and a chore for others -- regardless of how nice the family is. I never take this personally. Some of our APs have liked to eat with us. Others have preferred to go out with friends more often. In my view, the job needs to get done. As long as they are doing that, I am happy to have as much (or as little) of a relationship with them as they seem to want. While I have had GREAT relationships with several of our au pairs, I recognize that being "best friends" with a 40 year-old American woman with 2 kids may not be at the top of a 22 year old AP's list.

Having said that -- I know I really need my downtime at the end of the day (not that I get it). But I make sure the AP has an actual "break" and some real downtime between ending work, and jumping in to "family" mode.

9:40, you're generalizing. I agree that any host family that expects the au pair to eat dinner with them and then clean the whole thing up after them isn't going to have an au pair who wants to eat with the family. I agree that that is not the way the program is supposed to work and I agree that treating someone like that would be terrible. Just because that can (and does) happen doesn't mean that most host families are like that and would never dream of "slowly transfering after dinner responsibilities" to their au pair.

So setting all that aside.

The au pair program presents itself as "be a part of an American family!" It's what many au pairs want. Many au pairs don't want that, and that's fine too. It's one of the things you need to look at and think about when you are matching. But if you are a host family who has presented itself as one who eats dinner together every night and who wants an au pair who wants to spend time with the family, then it's a lovely thing. It's not a thing where the au pair feels obligated or thinks of it as eating with her boss in the workplace. I've heard of au pairs rematching BECAUSE their family didn't include them in stuff like dinners and activities.

Just because that doesn't sound like the kind of relationship you would want, don't assume that others wouldn't. Have you been an au pair? Do you understand what the program is? It's not nanny agency. It's a cultural exchange program too. You're SUPPOSED to be familial with your au pair. If you're not inviting her to dinner with the family, then you're not operating in the spirit of the program.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there needs to be understanding that if the AP has been with the kids for a long time she may need some down time. Expecting her to immediately jump from working AP role to helping out as a family member (help make dinner and help clean up) isn't really fair to her.

Agree with this. That's part of the problem with this blurry lined setup of employee/family member. No one should HAVE to eat dinner with their boss, nor should they have to work while not being paid. Yes watching your kids and cleaning your dishes is work for her and that doesn't change at 5 o'clock. I also understand the feeling that you shouldn't have to ask a family member for help or pay them for said help when preparing dinner/cleaning up. An arrangement that is agreeable to all parties can be reached of course but try to see it from your APs perspective. You're asking her to eat dinner with her boss and essentially to take her work home with her at the end of the day. You may say you have to take your work home but I'm sure you don't like it, and I'm sure your salary reflects the expectation.

This is an interesting perspective we are getting here - making dinner with the family sound like an awful ordeal and a chore, when I'm sure many families and au pairs enjoy this as part of the cultural exchange of the program: getting to know each other, talk, share food, etc. We are a family that does not have dinner with our au pair very frequently because of our schedules - I get home from work very late, and the kids have to go to sleep soon after I get home. So the kids get fed earlier in the evening (either by the AP or DH, whoever is on "duty" that day at that time), and then the adults eat when they can later in the evening. Our APs have tended to eat soon after they are off duty, or sometimes with the kids if they are responsible for the kids' dinner that day, and then go out or enjoy a quiet evening in their room. We invite them to eat with us (me and DH) later in the evening, but they usually don't take us up on that. (DH and I will usually just collapse in front of the TV for dinner anyway - so it's not really quality "family" time. Though we have had au pairs who like to join us for particular shows each week, and we make it into "family tv night" with dinner, some wine, conversation, etc.) But - I have always felt a little bad that we DON'T have family dinner regularly for the APs to join in. We always make this very clear up front when matching because we assume APs will be disappointed that we don't provide the family dinner experience.

So - hearing so many of you bitter folk make dinner with the family sound like some awful ordeal is pretty interesting. Are you all trolls, APs, or are you host families? I certainly understand the reasons why an AP would not want to have family dinner EVERY night of the week (exhausted, just want to veg out, need a break from being around the kids, etc.), but if the relationship between the AP and the family is good, this seems like it would be a nice part of family life. And I would think that the AP is probably used to helping do a little prep for dinner, or helping clean up afterwards, if she had family dinners back home. Unless the family actually has the AP act as chef and clean-up maid - and I'm sure there are some bad host families out there that require this - family dinner sounds really nice to me.

Family dinner sounds nice yes. How does dinner with your boss sound after a long day at work? How does dinner with your boss and your "work" sound? How does dinner with your boss doing work at your place of business and having to "help" cleanup after, when what everyone wants to do after work is throw their shoes off and sit in peace and quiet for a moment before worrying about dinner, kids, or more work. Its not about bitterness, its just trying to get some of these host families wearing rose colored glasses that the situation isn't as lovely as you think it is. Your AP may enjoy the occasional dinner with your family, heck she may enjoy eating with you every night, but not every AP would and I don't think that makes them a bad employee. I was the oldest girl in my family. That meant my mom or I cooked dinner, and after everyone went about their merry way while I scrubbed dishes, out away the food, and cleared the table. But if you ask my family they all "pitched in" I'm sorry, I think it'd be really easy to slowly transfer after dinner responsibilities to your employee and it just doesn't sound fun for the AP.

Anonymous wrote:I can see how the au pair program can be good when a good match is made. However, I also know it's like finding a needle in a haystack. So the potential for abusing the au pair is huge, and she has no recourse, unless she wants to be sent home at her own expense. If not, she has to obey and keep her mouth shut.

This is an odd statement. Are you saying that if a host family DOESN'T find that needle in a haystack, but rather, a fair to middling au pair, then they are more likely to abuse that au pair, and then send her home at her own expense? That has not been our experience at all. When we have rematched with badly chosen au pairs, we have not abused them - we have been frustrated that they can't or won't perform as we had hoped. And then they are given many chances to find new host families that want to work with them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there needs to be understanding that if the AP has been with the kids for a long time she may need some down time. Expecting her to immediately jump from working AP role to helping out as a family member (help make dinner and help clean up) isn't really fair to her.

Agree with this. That's part of the problem with this blurry lined setup of employee/family member. No one should HAVE to eat dinner with their boss, nor should they have to work while not being paid. Yes watching your kids and cleaning your dishes is work for her and that doesn't change at 5 o'clock. I also understand the feeling that you shouldn't have to ask a family member for help or pay them for said help when preparing dinner/cleaning up. An arrangement that is agreeable to all parties can be reached of course but try to see it from your APs perspective. You're asking her to eat dinner with her boss and essentially to take her work home with her at the end of the day. You may say you have to take your work home but I'm sure you don't like it, and I'm sure your salary reflects the expectation.

This is an interesting perspective we are getting here - making dinner with the family sound like an awful ordeal and a chore, when I'm sure many families and au pairs enjoy this as part of the cultural exchange of the program: getting to know each other, talk, share food, etc. We are a family that does not have dinner with our au pair very frequently because of our schedules - I get home from work very late, and the kids have to go to sleep soon after I get home. So the kids get fed earlier in the evening (either by the AP or DH, whoever is on "duty" that day at that time), and then the adults eat when they can later in the evening. Our APs have tended to eat soon after they are off duty, or sometimes with the kids if they are responsible for the kids' dinner that day, and then go out or enjoy a quiet evening in their room. We invite them to eat with us (me and DH) later in the evening, but they usually don't take us up on that. (DH and I will usually just collapse in front of the TV for dinner anyway - so it's not really quality "family" time. Though we have had au pairs who like to join us for particular shows each week, and we make it into "family tv night" with dinner, some wine, conversation, etc.) But - I have always felt a little bad that we DON'T have family dinner regularly for the APs to join in. We always make this very clear up front when matching because we assume APs will be disappointed that we don't provide the family dinner experience.

So - hearing so many of you bitter folk make dinner with the family sound like some awful ordeal is pretty interesting. Are you all trolls, APs, or are you host families? I certainly understand the reasons why an AP would not want to have family dinner EVERY night of the week (exhausted, just want to veg out, need a break from being around the kids, etc.), but if the relationship between the AP and the family is good, this seems like it would be a nice part of family life. And I would think that the AP is probably used to helping do a little prep for dinner, or helping clean up afterwards, if she had family dinners back home. Unless the family actually has the AP act as chef and clean-up maid - and I'm sure there are some bad host families out there that require this - family dinner sounds really nice to me.

15:19, we've only had one au pair who did not grasp "give a little more, get a little more." I found it incredibly frustrating,yet I also felt bad for her. She was an older au pair and had been through rematch. In some ways she lacked some basic emotional intelligence, which is pretty key for success in life and on the job. As I mentioned, all our other APs were amazing - I always found myself slipping them extra money for even mundane trips. The older AP - it was all i could do to give her a teensy bit of extra cash when she left.

I can see how the au pair program can be good when a good match is made. However, I also know it's like finding a needle in a haystack. So the potential for abusing the au pair is huge, and she has no recourse, unless she wants to be sent home at her own expense. If not, she has to obey and keep her mouth shut.

Interesting thread. I don't have our AP handle all the clean up after dinner - most times I shoo her away, but she rarely does so. Our former AP NEVER cleaned up after the meal. NEVER. While I did not expect her to, I realized how different it could be when the new AP entered our family. This AP is much more part of a team, while the former AP, who was the oldest by 7 years of all our APs, acted much more like a 14 y.o. - rolling her eyes if she could not get off early by an hour every night.

OP, strive to create inclusion, but also allow AP to go out with friends, etc if she has the chance. Let her know the expectations but don't have her remaining in kitchen while the family heads off for books or bed.

The au pair/host family set-up is a bit different than a simple live-in nanny. But here's how we approach it.

1. When we are matching, we make it clear that we are looking for someone who is interested in being "part of the family." We clarify that that means that we're looking for someone who actually wants to eat dinner with us a few times a week and do some activities with us occasionally. We want someone who wants to celebrate holidays as part of our family. We make it obvious that we're in the au pair program partially to share our lives and learn about a new person - we aren't going to be a good match for someone who works their hours and then hides in their room or leaves every evening and weekend. So we put that out there before even matching.

2. Then, we make it clear that we will schedule our au pair for any hours that we expect help. So if we require her to help with the kids with dinner, those count as her hours. We tell her that if we don't have her scheduled to work, she is free to do whatever she wants. And we mean it. That means that if I'm struggling to make dinner, the kids are climbing all over me, and she's worked all day and therefore just wants to sit up in her room, that is totally and completely fine.

3. We also tell her that we'd like her to join us for dinner, and that I generally make dinner and then we clean up as a family. I explain that if I have made her dinner and she has joined us to eat the dinner I made, then she is expected to pitch in to help clean up. That means that all five of us do something to help (kids included). It doesn't mean that we leave her to clean up. It means that I do the dishes, she sweeps the dining room floor, husband dries and puts away, kids put away salad dressing or whatever. We all help.


That's our set up. Now all that said, the best au pairs (and the best host families) will realize that if you give a little more, you get a little more. I 100% honestly do not expect my au pair to do any childcare work when she is not on duty. But I will admit that, say I've had a really tough day at work and she sticks around a minute to finish up a game she's playing with the kids so that I can get dinner on the table (which she will eat remember), I will remember that. I will probably be much more likely to feel like doing things such as coming home an hour early so she can make it to a concert she wants to go to. It works both ways - give a little more, get a little more.

If you are an au pair or host family that wants to do exactly the required minimum and no more, then expect the other party to feel the same way.

Anonymous wrote:I think there needs to be understanding that if the AP has been with the kids for a long time she may need some down time. Expecting her to immediately jump from working AP role to helping out as a family member (help make dinner and help clean up) isn't really fair to her.

Agree with this. That's part of the problem with this blurry lined setup of employee/family member. No one should HAVE to eat dinner with their boss, nor should they have to work while not being paid. Yes watching your kids and cleaning your dishes is work for her and that doesn't change at 5 o'clock. I also understand the feeling that you shouldn't have to ask a family member for help or pay them for said help when preparing dinner/cleaning up. An arrangement that is agreeable to all parties can be reached of course but try to see it from your APs perspective. You're asking her to eat dinner with her boss and essentially to take her work home with her at the end of the day. You may say you have to take your work home but I'm sure you don't like it, and I'm sure your salary reflects the expectation.

I think there needs to be understanding that if the AP has been with the kids for a long time she may need some down time. Expecting her to immediately jump from working AP role to helping out as a family member (help make dinner and help clean up) isn't really fair to her.