Here's more on the contractor/employee distinction in the context of babysitting. If the sitting is done at the parents' home, using equipment and supplies (diapers, food, etc.) provided by the parents, during hours established by the parents, by the particular sitter hired by the parents (as opposed to by assistants that the sitter may choose to subcontract the work to), then the sitter is generally an employee. It doesn't matter that the sitter can choose whether or not to accept the hours proposed by the parents and it doesn't matter that she exercises discretion within the boundaries set by the parents in terms of how they want their kids cared for by the sitter.

http://www.4nannytaxes.com/Forms/p926.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you prior posters are so insecure and defensive.

You all need to remember that your MBs and DBs are your bosses. My boss tells me what to do all the time. Not rudely or disrespectfully, just directly, as in "I need you to look into this by tomorrow or finish with x by Friday." To me, that is no less of a request than if he were to say "Pretty please, could you possibly write up a report on that by Thursday." If for any reason I can't or don't want to comply, I simply say something like "Actually, that's going to be a problem for me because...." If I think of a way to meet his needs without compromising my own, I propose that. No drama, no anger at being disrespected, just me being aware of the fact that different people have different interpersonal styles.

Some people just tend to phrase requests in statements rather than questions. What matters is the intent, not the phraseology.

Uh, "Can you take Charlie to the swimming pool today?" has two ACCEPTABLE answers: yes and no.

"Can you get me this report by Friday?" has one: yes.

So, not the same thing at all. This is also a babysitting job, not nannying - this mom is not her MB or boss in any way. For the sake of THIS arrangement, OP is an independent contractor and the mother is paying her for her services. Not employing her, not doing her a favor. OP is absolutely self-employed as an occasional babysitter, so no one is her boss or has the right to tell her what to do.

Sorry, but occasional babysitters are not independent contractors. By law, they can't be. They are non-exempt employees, just like nannies. This is because, according to labor law, babysitting is not a learned profession and babysitters aren't in a position to exercise the requisite level of managerial or creative discretion. If an occasional sitter works enough hours to meet the IRS threshold, she needs to be given a W2 by her employer and get taxes withheld. If she doesn't meet the tax threshold, she still doesn't magically become an independent contractor.

So, yes, the MB or DB is the babysitter's boss, and the swimming example is to daytime childcare in warm weather what the report is to professional office work. In both cases, the appropriate responses are "yes" or "no, and here's why." Of course, "no" needs to be said with a little finesse and most good employees go out of their way to say it as little as possible, but saying a very respectful "no" to a boss (or even a client in true independent contractor situation) is far more appropriate than getting defensive and stewing over how disrespected one feels because the boss/client just states a need or plan rather than framing it as a gentle request.

Anonymous wrote:Some of you prior posters are so insecure and defensive.

You all need to remember that your MBs and DBs are your bosses. My boss tells me what to do all the time. Not rudely or disrespectfully, just directly, as in "I need you to look into this by tomorrow or finish with x by Friday." To me, that is no less of a request than if he were to say "Pretty please, could you possibly write up a report on that by Thursday." If for any reason I can't or don't want to comply, I simply say something like "Actually, that's going to be a problem for me because...." If I think of a way to meet his needs without compromising my own, I propose that. No drama, no anger at being disrespected, just me being aware of the fact that different people have different interpersonal styles.

Some people just tend to phrase requests in statements rather than questions. What matters is the intent, not the phraseology.

Uh, "Can you take Charlie to the swimming pool today?" has two ACCEPTABLE answers: yes and no.

"Can you get me this report by Friday?" has one: yes.

So, not the same thing at all. This is also a babysitting job, not nannying - this mom is not her MB or boss in any way. For the sake of THIS arrangement, OP is an independent contractor and the mother is paying her for her services. Not employing her, not doing her a favor. OP is absolutely self-employed as an occasional babysitter, so no one is her boss or has the right to tell her what to do.

Some of you prior posters are so insecure and defensive.

You all need to remember that your MBs and DBs are your bosses. My boss tells me what to do all the time. Not rudely or disrespectfully, just directly, as in "I need you to look into this by tomorrow or finish with x by Friday." To me, that is no less of a request than if he were to say "Pretty please, could you possibly write up a report on that by Thursday." If for any reason I can't or don't want to comply, I simply say something like "Actually, that's going to be a problem for me because...." If I think of a way to meet his needs without compromising my own, I propose that. No drama, no anger at being disrespected, just me being aware of the fact that different people have different interpersonal styles.

Some people just tend to phrase requests in statements rather than questions. What matters is the intent, not the phraseology.

I would never order my nanny to bring her swimsuit because she was taking my DC swimming. Being so rude, I would be scared to send my kid to the pool with her. People are crazy to be rude to the person caring for their kids. Don't know what's wrong with people.

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure I understand the disrespectful part. She planned an activity for when you're sitting, right? You already agreed to be responsible for the kid's safety, so what difference does it make?

As for not being able to swim, I think if you are in childcare, you really should know how to swim. It's a lifesaving skill, as important as CPR and first aid.

I depends on where you are located. I live in an area that going swimming in the summer is not often done, therefore me not knowing how to swim is not something that greatly affects my work. No one here really has their own pool, it can be expensive to go to many of the pools (you would need a club membership of some kind), and it is never that hot that you feel you need to go to the pool. A sprinkler in the backyard or a trip to a park that has water features is more common.

Anonymous wrote:Now, if you don't want to get in the water or don't feel like you could fish the kid out in an emergency or would prefer to sit in the house all day, you should have told the MB that either when you got the text or when you arrived. She probably would have tried to accommodate your needs, even if it meant not using you again. Saying nothing to the MB and then posting on DCUM about something so dumb seems very passive aggressive and childlike.

NP here.

PP, OP posted to poll the posters here to ascertain whether she was overreacting or not. That is a completely legitimate, mature, responsible use of this forum -hardly childlike or passive aggressive. She wanted to gather other opinions so she could decide whether or not she was being unreasonable. AIBU forums are very popular all across the internet. I think you owe OP an apology.

OP, YANBU. I would have wanted to be asked first too (and I love going to the pool).

Anonymous wrote:The whole point is people..these parents whether your nanny/babysitter, need to learn to ask, not tell us what to do. All things need to be asked and discussed during interview, and if it's something new or spur of the moment, ask the nanny/babysitter if it's okay.

Just because we work for you and you pay us, does not, I repeat, DOES NOT make us your personal property!!

+1,000,000
Nobody respects a doormat.

The whole point is people..these parents whether your nanny/babysitter, need to learn to ask, not tell us what to do. All things need to be asked and discussed during interview, and if it's something new or spur of the moment, ask the nanny/babysitter if it's okay.

Just because we work for you and you pay us, does not, I repeat, DOES NOT make us your personal property!!

Anonymous wrote:This would bother me because I don't swim and don't even own a swimsuit. So unless she wanted me to take him to the pool and have someone else jump in to save his life if needed, we wouldn't be going.

+1

I don't swim as well and never apply to positions that directly state that swimming is a must. If I meet a family who mentions it during the interview, I am very upfront about it, and if I don't get the gig/job, absolutely their right. I do sit for some families with older elem aged kids who don't even care if I'm not in the pool with them and same with the parents, so that's never been an issue.

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure I understand the disrespectful part. She planned an activity for when you're sitting, right? You already agreed to be responsible for the kid's safety, so what difference does it make?

As for not being able to swim, I think if you are in childcare, you really should know how to swim. It's a lifesaving skill, as important as CPR and first aid.

I don't think the issue is necessarily that the mom planned an activity. If it is OP, I'd say let it go. If she micromanaged your every moment that's one thing, but this is nothing. I do take issue with the whole telling not asking part of it, especially at the last minute. It is her right to dictate how her son spends his time of course, but things should almost always be phrased as a request not a command, as you are an employee not a servant. If she makes a habit of phrasing "requests" this way, I might say something if it was worth it or just stop sitting for her.

I'm not sure I understand the disrespectful part. She planned an activity for when you're sitting, right? You already agreed to be responsible for the kid's safety, so what difference does it make?

As for not being able to swim, I think if you are in childcare, you really should know how to swim. It's a lifesaving skill, as important as CPR and first aid.

I don't see what the big deal is. If she keeps assuming you will do things and not acknowledging your POV first, the talk to her. But if I had a mom say I'm going swimming, without even consulting me, I would not care. I love swimming. f you feel disrespected, then do something about it!

Yes, it would bother me if someone "told" me rather than "ask" me to take her child swimming. I agree that the responsibility/liability factor goes waay up when you have to take a child into the water. She should have discussed this w/you.

Since it is only an OCCASIONAL babysitting job, you do not have to do it anymore.

This would not bother me. Mos tof the time it would be me asking mb where the kids swimsuit is so we can go. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. If you don't like her pattern of behavior stop accepting her jobs.

To the pps who can't swim...this is a non issue. Either the kid can swim and is old enough to go in alone or the kid is too little and you'd be in the shallow end. What is the problem?