Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 20:18     Subject: Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
Yes, I am the PP you are addressing and I am absolutely suggesting she was assuming things she shouldn't.

Make no mistake, I'm an MB who is completely committed to this particular benefit. I'm not your enemy. I'm trying to help you understand how miscommunications and assumptions happen. You don't need to believe me. I don't need you to believe me, because our nanny and ourselves are completely on the same page about this. Whether you believe it or not, I'm seriously and actually trying to help nannies understand this issue more thoroughly.

Don't take anything for granted and assume nothing. This is how professionals operate. Protecting yourself is not unreasonable. It's smart.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 20:08     Subject: Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
Anonymous wrote:I'm also sorry to hear this happened to you 19:05. Very sorry. I also agree with the PP that nannies don't avoid negotiating this benefit out of duplicity. They do so out of ignorance.

Where I disagree with the PP is in her inherent assumption that guaranteed hours are so standard that not assuming them makes a family worthy of shame. Basically, she is accusing families of duplicity. Not true. I'm 15:10 and I, as well as others, have posted exactly why it isn't standard or understood as a deal killer unless a nanny specifies and advocates for this.

Seriously, nannies, stop acting like victims who believe certain things are a given. Nothing in the world is a given and you need to step up and stop whining and bargain for what you think you are worth.


In 13 years of nannying, this topic never came up between our PP and the families she worked for. In a case such as that, are you suggesting she was wrong in assuming that this was standard behavior from nanny employers?

If the first family she worked for took this point for granted, PP probably went into the interview with her second family wondering if they would do the same. She probably hesitated to bring it up and decided to just wait and see (and hope) that they would also. Then they too believed it to be an obvious thing, that they would pay their nanny every week of the year. Then her third, possibly fourth and fifth families did the same. And you're saying that I am playing the victim by saying this is a standard benefit that many nannies don't know they need to negotiate for? I think you're sounding unreasonable.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 19:41     Subject: Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
I'm also sorry to hear this happened to you 19:05. Very sorry. I also agree with the PP that nannies don't avoid negotiating this benefit out of duplicity. They do so out of ignorance.

Where I disagree with the PP is in her inherent assumption that guaranteed hours are so standard that not assuming them makes a family worthy of shame. Basically, she is accusing families of duplicity. Not true. I'm 15:10 and I, as well as others, have posted exactly why it isn't standard or understood as a deal killer unless a nanny specifies and advocates for this.

Seriously, nannies, stop acting like victims who believe certain things are a given. Nothing in the world is a given and you need to step up and stop whining and bargain for what you think you are worth.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 19:24     Subject: Re:Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm a nanny for the last 13 years. I worked for numerous families. Maybe i was lucky i don't know. Every single family paid me guaranteed hours. It was never ever an issue until today. I have a contract with my present family. Usually I had 2 weeks paid vacation with every families. BUT if they came home earlier or they didn't need me for a day because they wanted to spend it with their kids or a sudden trip came up or a few snow days. They ALWAYS paid. The only time they didn't pay when I asked a day off. BUT that was perfectly understandable for me. Today my boss told me they will go away for two weeks in the summer and they won't pay. They already paid one week in March when they went to Florida. BUT this is only one week paid yet. I love their kids. But They didn't pay me for 10 days when it was the storm Sandy. The reasoning was: " We don't feel it would be fair to pay you when you didn't come to work". It wasn't my fault I didn't go. I couldn't get to their house! And anyway most of the time they were not home without electricity. And now this is the second "blow" in 7 months. I don't blame on anybody. I never put that in the contract because it was NEVER an issue before.... Now I learned my lesson on a hard way after that many years. Sorry for my venting but it had to come out....I hope anybody else learned a lesson Just like me. It makes me feel kind of sad that people are doing that with somebody who helps them to raise their kids.....

This is so sad when you have given your heart and soul to these children. You are just another business deal to them. So sad. Most of us have been there. I hope you get a much better job with parents who appreciate your work.


+1 So sorry this happened to you.

MBs this is what I meant when I said not negotiating for guaranteed hours stems from ignorance rather than duplicity. It is SO standard and expected to be paid every week as a nanny that many of us are caught off guard the first time a parent chooses not to. Shame on them, PP, and good luck finding a new family who respects you!
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 19:19     Subject: Re:Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
Anonymous wrote:I'm a nanny for the last 13 years. I worked for numerous families. Maybe i was lucky i don't know. Every single family paid me guaranteed hours. It was never ever an issue until today. I have a contract with my present family. Usually I had 2 weeks paid vacation with every families. BUT if they came home earlier or they didn't need me for a day because they wanted to spend it with their kids or a sudden trip came up or a few snow days. They ALWAYS paid. The only time they didn't pay when I asked a day off. BUT that was perfectly understandable for me. Today my boss told me they will go away for two weeks in the summer and they won't pay. They already paid one week in March when they went to Florida. BUT this is only one week paid yet. I love their kids. But They didn't pay me for 10 days when it was the storm Sandy. The reasoning was: " We don't feel it would be fair to pay you when you didn't come to work". It wasn't my fault I didn't go. I couldn't get to their house! And anyway most of the time they were not home without electricity. And now this is the second "blow" in 7 months. I don't blame on anybody. I never put that in the contract because it was NEVER an issue before.... Now I learned my lesson on a hard way after that many years. Sorry for my venting but it had to come out....I hope anybody else learned a lesson Just like me. It makes me feel kind of sad that people are doing that with somebody who helps them to raise their kids.....

This is so sad when you have given your heart and soul to these children. You are just another business deal to them. So sad. Most of us have been there. I hope you get a much better job with parents who appreciate your work.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 19:05     Subject: Re:Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
I'm a nanny for the last 13 years. I worked for numerous families. Maybe i was lucky i don't know. Every single family paid me guaranteed hours. It was never ever an issue until today. I have a contract with my present family. Usually I had 2 weeks paid vacation with every families. BUT if they came home earlier or they didn't need me for a day because they wanted to spend it with their kids or a sudden trip came up or a few snow days. They ALWAYS paid. The only time they didn't pay when I asked a day off. BUT that was perfectly understandable for me. Today my boss told me they will go away for two weeks in the summer and they won't pay. They already paid one week in March when they went to Florida. BUT this is only one week paid yet. I love their kids. But They didn't pay me for 10 days when it was the storm Sandy. The reasoning was: " We don't feel it would be fair to pay you when you didn't come to work". It wasn't my fault I didn't go. I couldn't get to their house! And anyway most of the time they were not home without electricity. And now this is the second "blow" in 7 months. I don't blame on anybody. I never put that in the contract because it was NEVER an issue before.... Now I learned my lesson on a hard way after that many years. Sorry for my venting but it had to come out....I hope anybody else learned a lesson Just like me. It makes me feel kind of sad that people are doing that with somebody who helps them to raise their kids.....
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 15:10     Subject: Re:Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?

You've touched on an important point PP, which is that most families can and do come up with an annual budget for childcare. That budget can be sliced up in any number of ways based on the nanny's priorities. She wants insurance and PTO? No problem, but the cost of those perks will probably be reflected in a lower hourly rate. She doesn't care about PTO but has a fixation on being able to tell people that she gets $20 per hour? Fine, because money and PTO are usually fungible from the parents perspective.

So the problem is not that families can't budget for guaranteed weekly pay, and it is not that the request itself is unreasonable. The problem is that nannies deprive the employer of the opportunity to budget for it by failing to clearly make the request until after the parents have agreed to an hourly rate request, effectively applying their child care budget solely to that one form of compensation. And many parents are truly blindsided by the request when it arises a few months into the nanny's tenure, because in most segments of the economy, an hourly rate job as opposed to a salaried job means the employee gets paid only when she actually works.



This is a really good post, PP, and might help nannies better understand the negotiating process from the family's perspective. Thank you.



I understand it from your point of view. I also believe it should be discussed up front. It does continue to boggle my mind that parents need to be told that not paying the nanny because YOU chose to go on vacation will be a hardship to your nanny and may cost you your childcare. I understand the budget can be worked out in a number of ways, it just seems that pay for 52 weeks per year is a given. This is a person we are talking about not a robot you turn off before skipping town.


I don't think we disagree. Of course it's a hardship to have a job without guaranteed hours. But they aren't a given. They are part of a larger compensation package, which is exactly why they need to be negotiated up front. If it's a deal killer for you, and it would be for me, than that is the first thing you get in the contract, even if it means a trade off in other potential benefits, like PTO or a higher hourly rate. If you don't negotiate for it, and you settle for other benefits, you can't go back because the budget is allocated.

It's really important for nannies to know what they want and to get it in the contract. There are many jobs (outside of nannying) that are hourly and do not have guaranteed hours. If a family is interviewing for a nanny for the first time, they may not be familiar with guaranteed hours, especially if their own experience with hourly jobs are administrative or retail. For example, none of the admins at my workplace get guaranteed hours (not my choice, I don't own the place). When we are closed, they are unpaid. This likely stresses peoples' budgets. Yet, we have no problem filling these positions because the economy is what it is and people need jobs. The nanny world has different expectations. No problem. Just make sure you get the benefits you need and want in your contract.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 13:57     Subject: Re:Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You've touched on an important point PP, which is that most families can and do come up with an annual budget for childcare. That budget can be sliced up in any number of ways based on the nanny's priorities. She wants insurance and PTO? No problem, but the cost of those perks will probably be reflected in a lower hourly rate. She doesn't care about PTO but has a fixation on being able to tell people that she gets $20 per hour? Fine, because money and PTO are usually fungible from the parents perspective.

So the problem is not that families can't budget for guaranteed weekly pay, and it is not that the request itself is unreasonable. The problem is that nannies deprive the employer of the opportunity to budget for it by failing to clearly make the request until after the parents have agreed to an hourly rate request, effectively applying their child care budget solely to that one form of compensation. And many parents are truly blindsided by the request when it arises a few months into the nanny's tenure, because in most segments of the economy, an hourly rate job as opposed to a salaried job means the employee gets paid only when she actually works.


This is a really good post, PP, and might help nannies better understand the negotiating process from the family's perspective. Thank you.


I understand it from your point of view. I also believe it should be discussed up front. It does continue to boggle my mind that parents need to be told that not paying the nanny because YOU chose to go on vacation will be a hardship to your nanny and may cost you your childcare. I understand the budget can be worked out in a number of ways, it just seems that pay for 52 weeks per year is a given. This is a person we are talking about not a robot you turn off before skipping town.


+1000

Not only is your nanny a person, she is your employee. You have as much of an obligation to her (ethically if not legally) as Costco does to its employees to provide fair pay and benefits she can live on. Being an employer is a big responsibility, please take it seriously folks.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 13:38     Subject: Re:Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
Anonymous wrote:
You've touched on an important point PP, which is that most families can and do come up with an annual budget for childcare. That budget can be sliced up in any number of ways based on the nanny's priorities. She wants insurance and PTO? No problem, but the cost of those perks will probably be reflected in a lower hourly rate. She doesn't care about PTO but has a fixation on being able to tell people that she gets $20 per hour? Fine, because money and PTO are usually fungible from the parents perspective.

So the problem is not that families can't budget for guaranteed weekly pay, and it is not that the request itself is unreasonable. The problem is that nannies deprive the employer of the opportunity to budget for it by failing to clearly make the request until after the parents have agreed to an hourly rate request, effectively applying their child care budget solely to that one form of compensation. And many parents are truly blindsided by the request when it arises a few months into the nanny's tenure, because in most segments of the economy, an hourly rate job as opposed to a salaried job means the employee gets paid only when she actually works.


This is a really good post, PP, and might help nannies better understand the negotiating process from the family's perspective. Thank you.


I understand it from your point of view. I also believe it should be discussed up front. It does continue to boggle my mind that parents need to be told that not paying the nanny because YOU chose to go on vacation will be a hardship to your nanny and may cost you your childcare. I understand the budget can be worked out in a number of ways, it just seems that pay for 52 weeks per year is a given. This is a person we are talking about not a robot you turn off before skipping town.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 12:53     Subject: Re:Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
You've touched on an important point PP, which is that most families can and do come up with an annual budget for childcare. That budget can be sliced up in any number of ways based on the nanny's priorities. She wants insurance and PTO? No problem, but the cost of those perks will probably be reflected in a lower hourly rate. She doesn't care about PTO but has a fixation on being able to tell people that she gets $20 per hour? Fine, because money and PTO are usually fungible from the parents perspective.

So the problem is not that families can't budget for guaranteed weekly pay, and it is not that the request itself is unreasonable. The problem is that nannies deprive the employer of the opportunity to budget for it by failing to clearly make the request until after the parents have agreed to an hourly rate request, effectively applying their child care budget solely to that one form of compensation. And many parents are truly blindsided by the request when it arises a few months into the nanny's tenure, because in most segments of the economy, an hourly rate job as opposed to a salaried job means the employee gets paid only when she actually works.


This is a really good post, PP, and might help nannies better understand the negotiating process from the family's perspective. Thank you.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 10:12     Subject: Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
Anonymous wrote:I am the earlier poster re: trips to Cancun and aspen but it is a good point PP that points to why this needs to be part of the contract so it is clearly spelled out for both sides. Also agree that not negotiating for guaranteed hours up front in the hope your MB will later just agree is in very bad faith. That said it still strikes me as odd that an employer is oblivious to the budget pressure that no pay for weeks on end will wreak on a nanny.


It is not in bad faith when a nanny fails to mention it, it is ignorance. Either she has never worked for a family that took unscheduled vacations and left her incomeless or she listens to people like the PP before you who suggest she doesn't deserve weekly pay because she's an hourly employee and that's how fast food workers live - if their boss tells them not to come in for three weeks, they just don't get any pay!

Nevermind that in such a scenario, which would probably never happen in the first place, that McDonald's employee would quit their job and get another retail/fast food/whatever job within a day or two because 1) they can't afford not to have money coming in and 2) they don't owe any loyalty to a company that would treat them so poorly. Parents know that nannies can't job hop as easily as other hourly employees, they know they'll feel a sense of loyalty (at least to the kids) even if they're poorly teated, and they count on that when trying to take advantage of them.

I'm so, so, so thankful to work for people who knew going into the very first interview that I am a human being and offered me not only guaranteed weekly pay but PTO and health insurance too. They're not wealthy, but their kids are their priority so they prioritize the care they receive.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 07:46     Subject: Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
I am the earlier poster re: trips to Cancun and aspen but it is a good point PP that points to why this needs to be part of the contract so it is clearly spelled out for both sides. Also agree that not negotiating for guaranteed hours up front in the hope your MB will later just agree is in very bad faith. That said it still strikes me as odd that an employer is oblivious to the budget pressure that no pay for weeks on end will wreak on a nanny.
Anonymous
Post 05/31/2013 00:10     Subject: Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"not standard at all"

MB here - I agree it needs to be negotiated. However I think it is "standard" in the sense that it is commonly granted. Just as paid holidays are "standard" in that they are commonly given in this area although that must still be negotiated.

Frankly this strikes me as a really weird issue. If you have enough money for multiple weeks of vacation every year (well beyond 2) it amazes me that you cannot also budget to pay your nanny each week. "Sorry, we need to go so Aspen for 2 weeks and then to Cancun for another 1 - see you when we're back!!" I'm sure that goes over great.


+1 I don't get why this is such a common issue. Isn't paying your nanny part of your budget? Are you intending to redirect that money for vacations? If that's what you have to do to pay for vacations, perhaps you can't afford them. You'd basically have your nanny paying for your vacation. Not cool.


You've touched on an important point PP, which is that most families can and do come up with an annual budget for childcare. That budget can be sliced up in any number of ways based on the nanny's priorities. She wants insurance and PTO? No problem, but the cost of those perks will probably be reflected in a lower hourly rate. She doesn't care about PTO but has a fixation on being able to tell people that she gets $20 per hour? Fine, because money and PTO are usually fungible from the parents perspective.

So the problem is not that families can't budget for guaranteed weekly pay, and it is not that the request itself is unreasonable. The problem is that nannies deprive the employer of the opportunity to budget for it by failing to clearly make the request until after the parents have agreed to an hourly rate request, effectively applying their child care budget solely to that one form of compensation. And many parents are truly blindsided by the request when it arises a few months into the nanny's tenure, because in most segments of the economy, an hourly rate job as opposed to a salaried job means the employee gets paid only when she actually works.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2013 12:37     Subject: Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"not standard at all"

MB here - I agree it needs to be negotiated. However I think it is "standard" in the sense that it is commonly granted. Just as paid holidays are "standard" in that they are commonly given in this area although that must still be negotiated.

Frankly this strikes me as a really weird issue. If you have enough money for multiple weeks of vacation every year (well beyond 2) it amazes me that you cannot also budget to pay your nanny each week. "Sorry, we need to go so Aspen for 2 weeks and then to Cancun for another 1 - see you when we're back!!" I'm sure that goes over great.


+1 I don't get why this is such a common issue. Isn't paying your nanny part of your budget? Are you intending to redirect that money for vacations? If that's what you have to do to pay for vacations, perhaps you can't afford them. You'd basically have your nanny paying for your vacation. Not cool.


+2

OP thanks for asking - don't worry that you didn't know, but yes, it is standard/common practice to give nannies paid holidays (like Memorial Day) off and to pay her even when you're out of town. One thing parents often do is give their nanny two weeks of paid vacation time to use but ask that one of those weeks is at their discretion, so they can schedule half of her vacation days to overlap with a trip they've already planned.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2013 10:55     Subject: Nanny pay while away on vacation and holidays?
Anonymous wrote:"not standard at all"

MB here - I agree it needs to be negotiated. However I think it is "standard" in the sense that it is commonly granted. Just as paid holidays are "standard" in that they are commonly given in this area although that must still be negotiated.

Frankly this strikes me as a really weird issue. If you have enough money for multiple weeks of vacation every year (well beyond 2) it amazes me that you cannot also budget to pay your nanny each week. "Sorry, we need to go so Aspen for 2 weeks and then to Cancun for another 1 - see you when we're back!!" I'm sure that goes over great.


Great post.