Anonymous wrote:WTAF. He’s five. This is all developmentally within range for his age. Nothing described here requires punishment.

22.59 here.

I'm a nanny. I set boundaries, and children push at them. Totally expected, but my job is literally to teach them that some things are negotiable (non-safety issues) and some things aren't (anything related to safety).

To each their own. If you don't want to set expectations with your children, teachers will do it for you when they're in school. Good luck.

WTAF. He’s five. This is all developmentally within range for his age. Nothing described here requires punishment.

Teacher her by modeling and punish your kid.

Wow.

“I know you think it’s funny, because you’re using a robot voice. It’s not. Go to your room and use your robot voice there. When you are ready to get your own water AND apologize, you may come out and do so.”

“What happens when you break safety rules?” (I listen when kids explain that it means they can’t be trusted to be safe, so they lose a privileges related to following that rule.) “If you don’t come when you’re called the first time, what happens?” (Various answers: no going there for x amount of time, holding an adult’s hand instead of playing at the park, spending more time inside, etc.) “Did you follow the safety rule and come when you were called? No? Ok, so which consequence are you choosing?” (Child chooses whichever they think they can tolerate for the required length of time.) “I’m sorry you made that choice. I hope that you can make a better choice next time.”

I call kids ONCE. They know by how I call them whether it’s a group or individual call, whether they need to do something, or whether I want to talk to them. They also know that while there is room to ask for clarification, timing and reasons about anything else, coming when you’re called is non-negotiable.

I’d suggest sitting your children down with the AP and creating a list of house rules and consequences (positive and negative), so it’s not up to your AP to figure out discipline. All she has to do is call attention to both following and not following the rules.

Frankly, if I called a child in from the backyard and they didn’t come? They would have two choices: three days staying inside unless I’m outside with them and staying inside for one day (even when I got outside). If they can’t be trusted to listen and come when they’re called in from the backyard, I also can’t trust that they’ll come when you’re called at a park or elsewhere, so that would mean no trips anywhere until I trust them to be safe again.

I'm a parent, although I've been a nanny in the distant past, but I guess I'm surprised by the answers I see here.

I'm not a parent who punishes often. I have other tools in my tool box. But if I heard that my kid was behaving that poorly for another adult (30 times? Offering "my brain isn't working" as an excuse), I would intervene immediately. Honestly, if I was working from home, and my kid was behaving so poorly that an adult needed to ask them 30 (or 3) times to come inside, I'd walk outside, take my kid by the hand and say that if they couldn't be polite and safe when an adult was watching them, then they needed to stay in their room. And then they'd stay there till dinner, where we'd talk about how they were going to apologize and how it was going to go in the future.

Yes, I would give the AP some strategies, but by 5 a kid shouldn't need some kind of perfect strategy to follow a direction, and a parent shouldn't be making excuses like "she didn't ask right" or "but he's kind" or "he was polite about it" or "he only spoke to her in that demanding way once".

To be clear, I believe that there are times when it's appropriate to stay out of a relationship and let a kid and an adult figure it out. But if it's at the point where the adult is calling for help, and the kid is being unsafe, and not coming to an adult when called, especially when that adult is also watching other kids is unsafe, then I will step in.

You need to push the AP. Tell her the point is not for the kids to LIKE her, that's not her job. Tell her you will back up any discipline she gives the kids as long as it's not physical. And then don't ever critique the way she handles the kids in front of them.

If she's telling him to come inside and he's not, she needs to walk over to him and say, without smiling, "Jason. You've been told to come inside. What are you supposed to be doing right now?" and then if he doesn't start moving inside she can tell him "For every minute you don't come inside, that's one minute tomorrow that you'll stand facing the wall doing nothing but thinking about how you'll listen when you're told to do something in the future. Now. Would you like to come inside like you were told?"

I do NOT play. I discipline a lot when they're little so when they're older I can relax a little bit.

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

The water water water thing was one time and in a robot voice to a general audience, not really a command, and I was kind of just passing near, so it didn't feel quite punishable given the situation, but I understand your point that you feel *I* need to be less "tolerant." I can assure you I've tried several things and, this is entirely new to me, so I am asking because the things I have tried have not worked.

So,m if you told a 5yo to obey the new AP, and told her to not tolerate disobedience, but then you hear that she asked him to come inside from outside multiple times without result, what would you do? I can't think of an example that I've seen or heard of where he was playing with something and being disobedient, but even if he was incidentally holding a Lego, I can tell you right now she's too nice to take it from him even if I tell her to.

The nanny would just put him in timeout on the rare occasion it was necessary. Occasionally she would "nanny shop" a toy that wasn't cleaned up as requested. She'd make him do chores and everything, as I do. I have been told I need to adjust my expectations going from nanny to AP so I am looking for suggestions that stay realistic in terms of what I can reasonably request and expect.

Thanks very much for your feedback and suggestions.

The more time they spend together and the more time she knows you aren’t listening and monitoring, the better it will get. Our APs were always less likely to discipline when I was in eat shot. If she’s asking for help in the area of discipline, help her with methods. Otherwise, you need to explain and reward your child for listening.
We’ve had nicer doormat like APs and some very strict APs. We interview for strict because the kids do tend to run the show when you have one who is more likely to make peace and count the hours until it’s not their problem.

OP here.

The water water water thing was one time and in a robot voice to a general audience, not really a command, and I was kind of just passing near, so it didn't feel quite punishable given the situation, but I understand your point that you feel *I* need to be less "tolerant." I can assure you I've tried several things and, this is entirely new to me, so I am asking because the things I have tried have not worked.

So,m if you told a 5yo to obey the new AP, and told her to not tolerate disobedience, but then you hear that she asked him to come inside from outside multiple times without result, what would you do? I can't think of an example that I've seen or heard of where he was playing with something and being disobedient, but even if he was incidentally holding a Lego, I can tell you right now she's too nice to take it from him even if I tell her to.

The nanny would just put him in timeout on the rare occasion it was necessary. Occasionally she would "nanny shop" a toy that wasn't cleaned up as requested. She'd make him do chores and everything, as I do. I have been told I need to adjust my expectations going from nanny to AP so I am looking for suggestions that stay realistic in terms of what I can reasonably request and expect.

Thanks very much for your feedback and suggestions.

The "my brain was not working" thing is total BS. I put up with a LOT less than you do. If my kids were repeating water, over and over, I'd tell them to go to their room and they can come back when they're ready to speak appropriately and use manners to ask for things.

I would also tell him, in front of the au pair, that each day he is to listen to her instruction by the second time she says it. Then I would tell the au pair, "When you give him an instruction, have him repeat it back to you so you're both confirming he's really heard you. If you have given the instruction a second time and he hasn't listened, then take away what he's doing - remove the iPad, take the toy, turn off the tv, close the book, etc."

I really don't put up with this stuff. His "friendliness" doesn't excuse disobedience. Adults are in charge.

We have a new AP, she's been with us a few weeks now. We had a nanny before this, and didn't have any discipline problems in that situation. But my 5 1/2 year old is frequently not "obeying" the new AP. Her English is not very developed, but he understands well enough if she is telling him to come inside, or do a chore, etc. I'll talk to him and he'll say, "Oh, yeah, she asked me like 30 times to come inside." He explains his brain just wasn't working properly at that time and he didn't want to do so. I feel I have two choices - either intervene at that time if I'm working in my home office (she texts me often like "he's not doing what I say"), or come up with consequences later. But I also don't want to create a tense relationship between them, as so far the kids adore her, so I don't focus on the aspect of it being HER so much as him not doing what we was told.

For my own purposes, I use 1-2-3 Magic, but I don't know she's ready for it. You can't threaten a consequence you aren't ready to implement, and it requires a certain level of fastidiousness and intolerance for kid BS. He'll do something annoying like chanting "water water water" while he's eating (not normal behavior). Of course I, and the departed nanny, would suggest he ask nicely before moving a muscle to assist (in no small part because he is also capable of getting his own water at meals). But the very sweet and new AP will just hand him water like he's the King of Siam. I have of course mentioned requiring manners in a more general sense but she is so far still kind of... very "nice."

He is perfectly sweet to her, just not obedient at times. She is small, young, and kind. Which is otherwise working great with the rest of the family. I've given the new AP a run down on our disciplinary philosophy, but from what I can tell so far, she is probably never going to be a disciplinarian. When he is disobedient, he is often quite friendly about it, like, "No thanks, I do not prefer to do that at this time." But this can become an issue especially when its happening while the caretaker is trying to coerce younger children to do things.

How do I navigate this? I'm extremely happy with our AP, but I also don't want my son giving her so hard a time (as she's trying to tend to our other kids as well) that it makes her work unpleasant. And I am otherwise glad she's very nice and kind, but need to inspire her to exercise a little more backbone so I don't end up with a little a-hole on my hands.

Thanks for any suggestions! xo