Anonymous
09/12/2019 11:40
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You sound more fun than a barrel of monkeys
You'll have to forgive me for actually putting effort into running my household, although I understand why scratching your ass and throwing feces might be more appealing to your sort.
Did someone actually write this? Wow.
I kinda don't blame OP. She was just asking a question. the 7 year HM didn't have to be so obnoxious. JUst answer the question.
I think the question is totally fine. It's always fine to ask more experienced HP their opinion. And it's totally fine to expect your AP to keep the kids area tidy, do the kids laundry, make their meals and pick up after themselves. All of that is a no brainer. But... are you going to be around while she's doing those things, as in, will she be doing the "work" while you play with the kids? I can see an AP getting disgruntled because they would rather "play" too. Make sure any AP you bring into your home understands that they will be doing a lot of housework (within the confines of the program).
Anonymous
09/12/2019 11:28
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
Anonymous wrote:We have had good luck with tidy au pairs by choosing ones who describe themselves as very neat, used to doing household chores, etc. We do NOT have checklists but we show our au pairs what we expect and we continue to follow up with them. Their job involves child-related cleaning so we expect them to keep the kids things neat and clean, and also to involve our (now elementary aged kids) in the tidying.
You can also look at education and career goals. Our current ap who’s about to leave has been the best so far, she is a self described “maniac” about tidiness and is extremely organized and tidy. My kids underwear drawers look like a shop display. She is returning to get her masters and become an event planner, which seems like a great fit for her skills. Our incoming ap has been to law school and is taking a year before doing her masters in criminal law. My husband is a lawyer and we both know one needs to be an organized self-starter to do well in law school in Europe.
Thank you for sharing your experience and advice. It is helpful and I appreciate it. All my favorite friends and husband are so different than me; I have a hard time imagining living with someone else who is, as you said, an organized self-starter. I'm also an attorney and own a law firm, and I believe you are right that it is the same skillset that helps with running a tidy, if not successful, household. Although I'd never wish upon my husband another legal mind on the property. Thanks again.
OP
Anonymous
09/12/2019 11:23
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
Anonymous wrote:OP, the fact that you seem to be approaching the AP program in a similar fashion to your job as a manager make alarm bells ring personally. It’s supposed to be a cultural exchange that involve childcare not some sort of military excercise.
You shouldn’t expect to find your house in a worse state than you left it in the morning, and should expect her to clean up after herself and the kids but do pick your battles.
If your kids are little to the point they are unable to clean after themselves, requiring her to do a lot of cleaning would mean her having to leave your kids unattended or not properly supervised while she sorts everything out. Would you be comfortable with your kids being plonked on the TV for a while? There is a reason why a lot of the cleaning happens when kids are out of the house, with the other half or once they are in bed. Managing little ones and ensuring they are safe can be challenging, especially for a young lady who probably has never had to juggle this type of multitasking before.
Have a list of things you want done throughout the week or day bur be flexible and understanding of the fact that she is young and probably never had to run a household. Remember that while it is your house, it is also her house for the year and she should feel comfortable living with you, which she is unlikely to feel if it seems like she is being scrutinized by you and have to constantly live up to your standards.
Personally I think it is better to raise an issue when there is one than anticipating the AP will be a slob and be on her toes at all times. Tell her what you expect, and if it doesn’t suit you, bring it up.
Thank you for your feedback and thoughts, I do appreciate it. I've explained in a previous reply (posted after your comment) my situation better, but your concerns are certainly still valid and advice thoughtful. Thanks again.
OP
Anonymous
09/12/2019 11:19
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:are there appropriate ways to ensure responsibilities are completed? (All my kids are very young, so not much help yet. And tidiness is very important to me.)
I can tell you what my friend's HF thought was "appropriate" to ensure responsibilities were completed. [Spoiler alert: none of the APs she knew thought those ways were appropriate]
A weekly multi page to-do / checklist, clearly structured into "kids activities", "child-related cleaning" and "general household contributions" (I can't remember the terminology they used but generally those three categories), each category was about a page long. By Friday night each box had to be ticked. Every week. No matter what.
For activities it would list things such as
- zoo
- pool
- library
If they hadn't been at the zoo by Thursday, they had to go on Friday. Tornado warning? A foot of snow? Baby throwing up? Did. not. matter. It's on the list. It has to be completed.
Same was true for every other item on the list.
How they made sure she did it all you wonder? Easy. They constantly threatened her with rematch. They were her third family. They knew she was out of options.
Why they were her third family? Her first family moved to an area the agency didn't serve. Her second family divorced, both moved, neither wanted to keep the AP. She was with family #3 by the four month mark.
She stuck it out. I still have no idea why. I would have been home in an instant.
So... being a dick is the easiest way to make sure your AP lives up to your expectations. However, it's also the easiest way to make sure that you relationship is less than stellar and unless your AP is desperate she will be gone quicker than you can say "mop the entry hall."
I agree with PP. Cleanliness and tidiness are driven by personality more than by checklists (unless you add putting your AP under pressure to the mix). Some people just "see" stuff and will not step over it but will make sure it gets taken care of. Some don't. You can put it on her to-do list and hope it gets done and yes, you may even want to add weekly meetings to the mix in which you go through what you thought was done well or not so well (especially early on).. or you hire a cleaner who you can be a dick to because they don't live with you. AP is responsible for the kids, picking up after them and making sure they are clean, fed and happy, and asked to pitch in with chores as a family member and you get somebody else to do the cleaning. APs are babysitters. They are not nannies. They are not housekeepers.
Thank you for your feedback. I appreciate hearing this story and your opinion. Yes, you are probably right that most people simply don't want to sail on a tight ship, and I'd like to balance my expectations so this is helpful. I do have a cleaning person (just once a month, but for the things that require scrubbing and such), I would not expect a childcare person to do true cleaning, just to keep the children's areas tidy, do children's laundry, and clean up after herself in terms of when she uses the kitchen, that kind of thing. I don't even need general household contributions really other than to not make it worse. I've explained a bit more in another reply above this one in terms of my position. In that person's answer to my OP, they made a comment that implied nannies do housekeeping as well, which I've simply never known. I do know a young American babysitter who, when she heard I was seeking an au pair, said she's interested in the position even at the same pay/benefits. And she's quite good with my children, albeit not as tidy as I prefer, she sort of tries. But, you are right, that's just a personality issue and I've never really pressed it for that reason. I will consider all this and look into a nanny's responsibilities to expand my frame of thinking. Thanks again.
OP
Anonymous
09/12/2019 11:09
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
Anonymous wrote:So here\'s my gut reaction on reading your post: I don\'t think you\'re going to have a super successful experience with Au Pairs. It sounds like cleanliness and tidiness are SUPER important to you and honestly....those are driven so much more by personality than by a checklist or whatever. Have hosted 6 Au Pairs. 3 were extremely clean/tidy, 2 were clean (didn\'t leave things filthy but didn\'t clear up clutter) and one was a complete mess (although super sweet and the kids ADORED her). We are a clean home but it\'s not always tidy (I am looking at the kids\' shoes in an array on the floor and backpacks looking like they exploded on the bench next to the door as I type). If you want to be successful you can\'t focus too much on that sort of thing...sorry. Of course you can try and you can ask that she starts clean up with the kids 30 minutes before her shift is over, etc. and you can screen by asking her about how she keeps things at home...but it is subjective. Living with strangers is hard for this reason so maybe a nanny is a better choice for you if being clean and tidy is an overriding priority, which it sounds like it is.
Thank you for this feedback. You may very well be right.
I do not need full-time childcare, because I just work less than half-time and from home. I don't want to spend less time with my young children, I am hoping to improve the QUALITY of the time I spend with them. I spend literal HOURS a day fixing their meals, cleaning up after them, changing diapers (3 are in them), dressing/undressing/bathing, etc. On the one hand, of course this IS mothering. On the other, I'd love to sit down on the floor with them once in a while without having 700 things that still need doing. Also, because they are all so young, it's not as safe (or enjoyable) as I'd prefer to take all 4 to the park or museum for instance by myself. I thought having an extra set of hands for those things would help, too, but still, it's just so. much. housework. caring after 4 under 4. And my husband's away five days a week and, to be honest, only makes more work when he's home (although he's an absolute darling playing with the children, and quite dashing, he's not much of a housekeeper).
Do you feel like a nanny would be a better fit? I'd never thought of them as doing housework, to be honest, but I've also no experience or knowledge about it, save for a few references from movies. Thanks so much.
OP
Anonymous
09/12/2019 06:29
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
We have had good luck with tidy au pairs by choosing ones who describe themselves as very neat, used to doing household chores, etc. We do NOT have checklists but we show our au pairs what we expect and we continue to follow up with them. Their job involves child-related cleaning so we expect them to keep the kids things neat and clean, and also to involve our (now elementary aged kids) in the tidying.
You can also look at education and career goals. Our current ap who’s about to leave has been the best so far, she is a self described “maniac” about tidiness and is extremely organized and tidy. My kids underwear drawers look like a shop display. She is returning to get her masters and become an event planner, which seems like a great fit for her skills. Our incoming ap has been to law school and is taking a year before doing her masters in criminal law. My husband is a lawyer and we both know one needs to be an organized self-starter to do well in law school in Europe.
You can also look at education and career goals. Our current ap who’s about to leave has been the best so far, she is a self described “maniac” about tidiness and is extremely organized and tidy. My kids underwear drawers look like a shop display. She is returning to get her masters and become an event planner, which seems like a great fit for her skills. Our incoming ap has been to law school and is taking a year before doing her masters in criminal law. My husband is a lawyer and we both know one needs to be an organized self-starter to do well in law school in Europe.
Anonymous
09/12/2019 03:56
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
OP, the fact that you seem to be approaching the AP program in a similar fashion to your job as a manager make alarm bells ring personally. It’s supposed to be a cultural exchange that involve childcare not some sort of military excercise.
You shouldn’t expect to find your house in a worse state than you left it in the morning, and should expect her to clean up after herself and the kids but do pick your battles.
If your kids are little to the point they are unable to clean after themselves, requiring her to do a lot of cleaning would mean her having to leave your kids unattended or not properly supervised while she sorts everything out. Would you be comfortable with your kids being plonked on the TV for a while? There is a reason why a lot of the cleaning happens when kids are out of the house, with the other half or once they are in bed. Managing little ones and ensuring they are safe can be challenging, especially for a young lady who probably has never had to juggle this type of multitasking before.
Have a list of things you want done throughout the week or day bur be flexible and understanding of the fact that she is young and probably never had to run a household. Remember that while it is your house, it is also her house for the year and she should feel comfortable living with you, which she is unlikely to feel if it seems like she is being scrutinized by you and have to constantly live up to your standards.
Personally I think it is better to raise an issue when there is one than anticipating the AP will be a slob and be on her toes at all times. Tell her what you expect, and if it doesn’t suit you, bring it up.
You shouldn’t expect to find your house in a worse state than you left it in the morning, and should expect her to clean up after herself and the kids but do pick your battles.
If your kids are little to the point they are unable to clean after themselves, requiring her to do a lot of cleaning would mean her having to leave your kids unattended or not properly supervised while she sorts everything out. Would you be comfortable with your kids being plonked on the TV for a while? There is a reason why a lot of the cleaning happens when kids are out of the house, with the other half or once they are in bed. Managing little ones and ensuring they are safe can be challenging, especially for a young lady who probably has never had to juggle this type of multitasking before.
Have a list of things you want done throughout the week or day bur be flexible and understanding of the fact that she is young and probably never had to run a household. Remember that while it is your house, it is also her house for the year and she should feel comfortable living with you, which she is unlikely to feel if it seems like she is being scrutinized by you and have to constantly live up to your standards.
Personally I think it is better to raise an issue when there is one than anticipating the AP will be a slob and be on her toes at all times. Tell her what you expect, and if it doesn’t suit you, bring it up.
Anonymous
09/12/2019 02:10
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
Anonymous wrote:are there appropriate ways to ensure responsibilities are completed? (All my kids are very young, so not much help yet. And tidiness is very important to me.)
I can tell you what my friend's HF thought was "appropriate" to ensure responsibilities were completed. [Spoiler alert: none of the APs she knew thought those ways were appropriate]
A weekly multi page to-do / checklist, clearly structured into "kids activities", "child-related cleaning" and "general household contributions" (I can't remember the terminology they used but generally those three categories), each category was about a page long. By Friday night each box had to be ticked. Every week. No matter what.
For activities it would list things such as
- zoo
- pool
- library
If they hadn't been at the zoo by Thursday, they had to go on Friday. Tornado warning? A foot of snow? Baby throwing up? Did. not. matter. It's on the list. It has to be completed.
Same was true for every other item on the list.
How they made sure she did it all you wonder? Easy. They constantly threatened her with rematch. They were her third family. They knew she was out of options.
Why they were her third family? Her first family moved to an area the agency didn't serve. Her second family divorced, both moved, neither wanted to keep the AP. She was with family #3 by the four month mark.
She stuck it out. I still have no idea why. I would have been home in an instant.
So... being a dick is the easiest way to make sure your AP lives up to your expectations. However, it's also the easiest way to make sure that you relationship is less than stellar and unless your AP is desperate she will be gone quicker than you can say "mop the entry hall."
I agree with PP. Cleanliness and tidiness are driven by personality more than by checklists (unless you add putting your AP under pressure to the mix). Some people just "see" stuff and will not step over it but will make sure it gets taken care of. Some don't. You can put it on her to-do list and hope it gets done and yes, you may even want to add weekly meetings to the mix in which you go through what you thought was done well or not so well (especially early on).. or you hire a cleaner who you can be a dick to because they don't live with you. AP is responsible for the kids, picking up after them and making sure they are clean, fed and happy, and asked to pitch in with chores as a family member and you get somebody else to do the cleaning. APs are babysitters. They are not nannies. They are not housekeepers.
Anonymous
09/12/2019 00:00
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
So here\'s my gut reaction on reading your post: I don\'t think you\'re going to have a super successful experience with Au Pairs. It sounds like cleanliness and tidiness are SUPER important to you and honestly....those are driven so much more by personality than by a checklist or whatever. Have hosted 6 Au Pairs. 3 were extremely clean/tidy, 2 were clean (didn\'t leave things filthy but didn\'t clear up clutter) and one was a complete mess (although super sweet and the kids ADORED her). We are a clean home but it\'s not always tidy (I am looking at the kids\' shoes in an array on the floor and backpacks looking like they exploded on the bench next to the door as I type). If you want to be successful you can\'t focus too much on that sort of thing...sorry. Of course you can try and you can ask that she starts clean up with the kids 30 minutes before her shift is over, etc. and you can screen by asking her about how she keeps things at home...but it is subjective. Living with strangers is hard for this reason so maybe a nanny is a better choice for you if being clean and tidy is an overriding priority, which it sounds like it is.
Anonymous
09/11/2019 22:39
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You sound more fun than a barrel of monkeys
You'll have to forgive me for actually putting effort into running my household, although I understand why scratching your ass and throwing feces might be more appealing to your sort.
Did someone actually write this? Wow.
I kinda don't blame OP. She was just asking a question. the 7 year HM didn't have to be so obnoxious. JUst answer the question.
Anonymous
09/11/2019 21:43
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You sound more fun than a barrel of monkeys
You'll have to forgive me for actually putting effort into running my household, although I understand why scratching your ass and throwing feces might be more appealing to your sort.
Did someone actually write this? Wow.
Anonymous
09/11/2019 21:03
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You sound more fun than a barrel of monkeys
You'll have to forgive me for actually putting effort into running my household, although I understand why scratching your ass and throwing feces might be more appealing to your sort.
Ohhh man...
7 year host mom
Anonymous
09/11/2019 18:55
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
Anonymous wrote:You sound more fun than a barrel of monkeys
You'll have to forgive me for actually putting effort into running my household, although I understand why scratching your ass and throwing feces might be more appealing to your sort.
Anonymous
09/11/2019 18:34
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
You sound more fun than a barrel of monkeys
Anonymous
09/11/2019 18:32
Subject: What do you wish you had been stricter about at the beginning? What SYSTEMS/checklists have helped?
Obviously, it is always easier to let up on rules and standards than it is to impose them after the fact. Are there any rules or standards which you wish, in hindsight, you had started with? And, similarly, what SYSTEMS have you found helpful in running the household and managing an au pair (checklists? I know some like handbooks... and weekly meetings... what else?)
I'm particularly interested in those standards and practices as they pertain to tidiness and cleanliness, either as part of the general household contribution or specific child-related delineated responsibilities. I'm interested in everything else, too, but that's the part that I have the least confidence in. Like other than putting expectations in the handbook, are there appropriate ways to ensure responsibilities are completed? (All my kids are very young, so not much help yet. And tidiness is very important to me.)
I have a lot of experience managing other people through my work, and past domestic workers, but this is my first foray into having an au pair. I do wonder how the family dynamic (of her being somewhat a family member) might actually make it harder to manage her work. Like, at work, I'm far less hesitant to be a dick, just tell someone they're doing it all wrong or slacking off, and in my industry that's very acceptable. So I am hoping to balance out the need to be more civilized and kinder with some systems and best practices.
Thanks for your thoughts!
I'm particularly interested in those standards and practices as they pertain to tidiness and cleanliness, either as part of the general household contribution or specific child-related delineated responsibilities. I'm interested in everything else, too, but that's the part that I have the least confidence in. Like other than putting expectations in the handbook, are there appropriate ways to ensure responsibilities are completed? (All my kids are very young, so not much help yet. And tidiness is very important to me.)
I have a lot of experience managing other people through my work, and past domestic workers, but this is my first foray into having an au pair. I do wonder how the family dynamic (of her being somewhat a family member) might actually make it harder to manage her work. Like, at work, I'm far less hesitant to be a dick, just tell someone they're doing it all wrong or slacking off, and in my industry that's very acceptable. So I am hoping to balance out the need to be more civilized and kinder with some systems and best practices.
Thanks for your thoughts!