Anonymous
04/12/2017 11:05
Subject: Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
Keep looking. not worth chancing it.
Anonymous
04/11/2017 16:58
Subject: Re:Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:MB here. When I was hiring if any reference seemed even the least bit fishy or felt odd, I moved on to another candidate. I didn't feel comfortable giving someone the benefit of the doubt when it came to my kids. Just something to think about.
OP here. Thank you. This was my first inclination too. Unfortunately, where I live (big city but not DC/NY/SF/LA) the market for professional nannies seems to be smaller, and many of the candidates I've seen with 5+ years nanny experience (which is our minimum bar) have had something weird on their resume: one could not provide her TWO most recent references, one had 5 years experience but never nannied for a family for more than 6 months, etc. So that's why I'm even spending any time looking into these issues before moving onto other candidates.
Nanny #1 does have 3 other glowing references of FT work from within the last 6 or so years, but she provided a full list of work history and reference letters going back 10+ years. I almost didn't call this particular reference thinking it was a temp situation, but now am glad I did! (Though still undecided about what to do with this information.)
Agreed with others that you should run from these candidates. But I might revisit some of your other conditions if you are in a market where nannying is less common and the pool is smaller--for instance, with the one who had only had six-month jobs, why? Was it because people were using her for infants and then starting daycare (more common in areas where nannies are not the norm) or for other reasons (which would be a concern)?
We are in a market with much more competition but I did call all references within the past five years and I did not move forward with anyone where there was any hesitation on the part of the references. I also give strong references to both of our long-term nannies (one share per kid) and to a nanny who worked for us for six weeks while one nanny was on medical leave. Our experiences weren't picture perfect--nobody is flawless--but the occasional hiccups were not significant in the overall positive experience, and that's what I talk about generally. When people ask about those specific things, I answer honestly (and I've also had the "what's one thing you would change about [Nanny]?" and "What's one challenging situation you and [Nanny] encountered?" questions from other parents considering her, which is an opening to lift up any smaller issues that might be bigger issues for some families.) So when someone goes far enough to give a negative reference or decline to answer questions right off the bat, that gives me real pause.
Anonymous
04/11/2017 15:11
Subject: Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
I don't think the NDA is actually that weird if it's plausible that she really did work for a high profile/rich family who could make it worth her while to sign an NDA. (I don't know where you live/what her salary and credentials are like.) You could ask her if there was anyone else who could verify the employment at least existed? (Was there another PT nanny or a housekeeper or a doorman or a preschool teacher or someone else similar?) Also, I would definitely talk to the friend, because it's possible the friend will tell you who it was and that's her "out" for the NDA (friend isn't similarly bound); then you could figure out what to do with that info.
Anonymous
04/10/2017 22:28
Subject: Re:Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Now I think you're overthinking it. Three other glowing references? Letters going back 10 years? Is there something else you don't like about this woman? I am willing to bet whatever she was fired over was a personality/style clash. Ask her about it, and be direct, and put this to rest.
I didn't call any of the older references from 10 years ago (and don't plan to) -- just meant when I asked the nanny for references, that is what she sent me. The not-so-great reference in question was within the last 5 years which is the main reason I even decided to call the former MB. But I do plan to ask Nanny #1 about it and see how she responds.
I am a older nanny (62) and I had a potential MB ask for a reference from the preschool where I taught my first year out of college - that was 1978 in Illinois! I just laughed and, of course, did not accept the subsequent job offer.
Anonymous
04/10/2017 17:40
Subject: Re:Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:MB here. When I was hiring if any reference seemed even the least bit fishy or felt odd, I moved on to another candidate. I didn't feel comfortable giving someone the benefit of the doubt when it came to my kids. Just something to think about.
Another MB here and I didn't hire a great candidate because of her current employer said she was "very involved" with her son and mentioned how much her son loved her and her love for him. Felt strange to me even though she said she was a great nanny - there was just something about the way this mother talked about the nanny... I didn't hire her.
However the nanny took a job nearby and I see her all the time with her new charge... the nanny is 100% attentive, talks to the toddler constantly and has her signing fluently. All the librarians at our children's library rave about this nanny. The pre-preschool program we both attend with the kids offered this nanny a job at their preschool based on how she interacts with her charge!!!
Basically I totally screwed up. Thinking back, the mother was probably jealous of the nanny's relationship with her son.
You cannot always trust another mother's opinion! Just read some of the comments on the general board from mothers and you can understand better.
MB here. This was such a rookie mistake you made. If the worst thing an MB has to say is that the nanny is "too involved" and the MB cannot give specific examples of why this bothers her, then clearly it's MB's problem and nanny is a gem! We actually used to have a nanny who was a little too involved BUT I could describe specific situations in which it negatively affected her care of our child. Having said that, in the greater scheme of things, I didn't think this was that big of a deal, certainly nothing to fire her over, and gave her a glowing reference.
Anonymous
04/10/2017 14:10
Subject: Re:Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
Anonymous wrote:
Now I think you're overthinking it. Three other glowing references? Letters going back 10 years? Is there something else you don't like about this woman? I am willing to bet whatever she was fired over was a personality/style clash. Ask her about it, and be direct, and put this to rest.
I didn't call any of the older references from 10 years ago (and don't plan to) -- just meant when I asked the nanny for references, that is what she sent me. The not-so-great reference in question was within the last 5 years which is the main reason I even decided to call the former MB. But I do plan to ask Nanny #1 about it and see how she responds.
Anonymous
04/10/2017 14:03
Subject: Re:Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
Anonymous wrote:MB here. When I was hiring if any reference seemed even the least bit fishy or felt odd, I moved on to another candidate. I didn't feel comfortable giving someone the benefit of the doubt when it came to my kids. Just something to think about.
Another MB here and I didn't hire a great candidate because of her current employer said she was "very involved" with her son and mentioned how much her son loved her and her love for him. Felt strange to me even though she said she was a great nanny - there was just something about the way this mother talked about the nanny... I didn't hire her.
However the nanny took a job nearby and I see her all the time with her new charge... the nanny is 100% attentive, talks to the toddler constantly and has her signing fluently. All the librarians at our children's library rave about this nanny. The pre-preschool program we both attend with the kids offered this nanny a job at their preschool based on how she interacts with her charge!!!
Basically I totally screwed up. Thinking back, the mother was probably jealous of the nanny's relationship with her son.
You cannot always trust another mother's opinion! Just read some of the comments on the general board from mothers and you can understand better.
Anonymous
04/10/2017 13:55
Subject: Re:Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:MB here. When I was hiring if any reference seemed even the least bit fishy or felt odd, I moved on to another candidate. I didn't feel comfortable giving someone the benefit of the doubt when it came to my kids. Just something to think about.
OP here. Thank you. This was my first inclination too. Unfortunately, where I live (big city but not DC/NY/SF/LA) the market for professional nannies seems to be smaller, and many of the candidates I've seen with 5+ years nanny experience (which is our minimum bar) have had something weird on their resume: one could not provide her TWO most recent references, one had 5 years experience but never nannied for a family for more than 6 months, etc. So that's why I'm even spending any time looking into these issues before moving onto other candidates.
Nanny #1 does have 3 other glowing references of FT work from within the last 6 or so years, but she provided a full list of work history and reference letters going back 10+ years. I almost didn't call this particular reference thinking it was a temp situation, but now am glad I did! (Though still undecided about what to do with this information.)
Now I think you're overthinking it. Three other glowing references? Letters going back 10 years? Is there something else you don't like about this woman? I am willing to bet whatever she was fired over was a personality/style clash. Ask her about it, and be direct, and put this to rest.
Anonymous
04/10/2017 13:49
Subject: Re:Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
Anonymous wrote:MB here. When I was hiring if any reference seemed even the least bit fishy or felt odd, I moved on to another candidate. I didn't feel comfortable giving someone the benefit of the doubt when it came to my kids. Just something to think about.
OP here. Thank you. This was my first inclination too. Unfortunately, where I live (big city but not DC/NY/SF/LA) the market for professional nannies seems to be smaller, and many of the candidates I've seen with 5+ years nanny experience (which is our minimum bar) have had something weird on their resume: one could not provide her TWO most recent references, one had 5 years experience but never nannied for a family for more than 6 months, etc. So that's why I'm even spending any time looking into these issues before moving onto other candidates.
Nanny #1 does have 3 other glowing references of FT work from within the last 6 or so years, but she provided a full list of work history and reference letters going back 10+ years. I almost didn't call this particular reference thinking it was a temp situation, but now am glad I did! (Though still undecided about what to do with this information.)
Anonymous
04/10/2017 10:07
Subject: Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
MB here.
Unless you have multiple, glowing, spectacular, recent references counterbalancing the obvious red flags I would walk away from both candidates.
The hassle of a search taking longer than you'd hoped is nothing compared to the nightmare of realizing you've hired someone you shouldn't.
I would perhaps consider Nanny #2 further if I felt assured that she was being candid about the circumstances around her most recent job. But only if everything else in her background was transparent and fantastic, and only if I thought she was a remarkable find. And I'd have a long probationary period of employment.
I fired one nanny, who had been with us for three years. I could give her a glowing reference for babies, but not for toddlers. I could give her a glowing reference for someone who wanted a live-in, but not for a family for whom the nanny would have to be a reliable driver. I could give her a glowing reference for a family that spoke spanish, but not for a family where the nanny would have to interact with people like teacher, doctors, etc...
I would never say to ask the nanny directly why she was let go unless there was something truly egregious that I knew would condemn her candidacy and i couldn't quite live with doing that so directly. (Or I know enough employment law to not want to get myself into a position where I could potentially be sued.) But if those words came out of my mouth it would be a sign of an absolutely unforgivable occurrence or lapse of some kind.
I have heard of NDAs, but only with big celebrity or political families. And those kinds of jobs tend to be agency driven or hired by word of mouth - so there are other ways to get references. I would be very wary.
Unless you have multiple, glowing, spectacular, recent references counterbalancing the obvious red flags I would walk away from both candidates.
The hassle of a search taking longer than you'd hoped is nothing compared to the nightmare of realizing you've hired someone you shouldn't.
I would perhaps consider Nanny #2 further if I felt assured that she was being candid about the circumstances around her most recent job. But only if everything else in her background was transparent and fantastic, and only if I thought she was a remarkable find. And I'd have a long probationary period of employment.
I fired one nanny, who had been with us for three years. I could give her a glowing reference for babies, but not for toddlers. I could give her a glowing reference for someone who wanted a live-in, but not for a family for whom the nanny would have to be a reliable driver. I could give her a glowing reference for a family that spoke spanish, but not for a family where the nanny would have to interact with people like teacher, doctors, etc...
I would never say to ask the nanny directly why she was let go unless there was something truly egregious that I knew would condemn her candidacy and i couldn't quite live with doing that so directly. (Or I know enough employment law to not want to get myself into a position where I could potentially be sued.) But if those words came out of my mouth it would be a sign of an absolutely unforgivable occurrence or lapse of some kind.
I have heard of NDAs, but only with big celebrity or political families. And those kinds of jobs tend to be agency driven or hired by word of mouth - so there are other ways to get references. I would be very wary.
Anonymous
04/10/2017 09:11
Subject: Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
A true high-profile family (the Kardashian-Wests, the Turmp-Kushners) might insist on a total NDA. They do not want the nanny to give out a name or phone number.
If both nannies have other excellent references, then just use those. I don't know why nanny 1 would keep that family on as a reference if she has other, better ones. That concerns me a little; does she have other full time nanny experience?
#1 could be all sorts of things: she was late on a day the parents had something very important and had emphasized timeliness; something expensive went missing on her watch; she was mean to the family pet; she said something mildly offensive; she took DC somewhere the parents didn't approve of ... Anyway, no way to guess, but I assume it was something the parents couldn't get over but which they recognized that someone else might not have blamed the nanny for or would have seen as a minor issue.
If both nannies have other excellent references, then just use those. I don't know why nanny 1 would keep that family on as a reference if she has other, better ones. That concerns me a little; does she have other full time nanny experience?
#1 could be all sorts of things: she was late on a day the parents had something very important and had emphasized timeliness; something expensive went missing on her watch; she was mean to the family pet; she said something mildly offensive; she took DC somewhere the parents didn't approve of ... Anyway, no way to guess, but I assume it was something the parents couldn't get over but which they recognized that someone else might not have blamed the nanny for or would have seen as a minor issue.
Anonymous
04/10/2017 09:10
Subject: Re:Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
MB here. When I was hiring if any reference seemed even the least bit fishy or felt odd, I moved on to another candidate. I didn't feel comfortable giving someone the benefit of the doubt when it came to my kids. Just something to think about.
Anonymous
04/10/2017 09:07
Subject: Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to hire a nanny for the first time and have two candidates on my shortlist who have lots of experience and interviewed well, BUT:
Nanny #1: had one reference letter from a family from a few years ago (where she worked FT for half a year) that was rather curt but mentioned several positive traits. When I called the MB to verify employment details, she said she "let the nanny go" but did not want to say why, saying I should ask Nanny #1 directly and pretty much hung up on me.
Nanny #2: most recent job was 2 years with a "private family." She told me the decision to end it was mutual due to poor fit and went into quite a bit of detail about the issues she experienced on the job. When I asked if I could speak to the family to hear their side or at least verify her employment there, Nanny #2 said she signed an NDA so she could not disclose who it was. She offered to let me talk to her nanny friend who first told her about the job.
Both nannies do have other great references, and I plan to ask Nanny #1 about the situation in more detail and to speak with Nanny #2's friend. But it does concern me that I won't be able to verify anything they say with the former employers. I recognize even good nannies can sometimes have bad luck. However, I want to make sure I'm not missing a huge red flag for some serious issue here.
My questions:
1) For MBs: In what situation would you let a nanny go, write her a mildly positive reference letter, but not be comfortable talking to future potential employers about why the relationship ended? What might be going on here?
2) Does this NDA sound like a real thing? I've only heard of nanny NDAs covering personal info (like finances, medical issues, etc.), but the actual identity of the employer seems really odd. And why would a nanny agree to this, since it sounds like there'd be no chance of a reference even if the nanny does a great job?
Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
I am a nanny and I have signed nondisclosure agreements that never specified the name of my employers per se but absolutely did bind me to never disclose a telephone number or address along with many other details. So what was the point of ever giving their name except to "name drop" since my employers could never be reached? When you work for high profile/famous families, I don't think this is unusual.
No high profile family I have ever worked for asked for a reference from me since the agency which placed me ran extensive background checks and (I assume) checked my references. If I were to venture out on my own to look for a job, I don't know what I would do in terms of giving actual references.
Anonymous
04/10/2017 04:52
Subject: Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
MB here. I have left a nanny go because she developed a bad attitude after deciding that we should pay her more since her MIL could no longer watch her baby. She had to put her daughter in daycare so she wasn't bringing in the income she expected. The final straw was when she started speaking roughly to my toddler and secretly taking him on interviews with her during work hours. She had good qualities but I certainly didn't want to spend much time trying to get her another job after that. I would choose one of the other nannies, OP. That is a big red flag.
Anonymous
04/10/2017 02:29
Subject: Missing/odd nanny references - red flag?
I'm trying to hire a nanny for the first time and have two candidates on my shortlist who have lots of experience and interviewed well, BUT:
Nanny #1: had one reference letter from a family from a few years ago (where she worked FT for half a year) that was rather curt but mentioned several positive traits. When I called the MB to verify employment details, she said she "let the nanny go" but did not want to say why, saying I should ask Nanny #1 directly and pretty much hung up on me.
Nanny #2: most recent job was 2 years with a "private family." She told me the decision to end it was mutual due to poor fit and went into quite a bit of detail about the issues she experienced on the job. When I asked if I could speak to the family to hear their side or at least verify her employment there, Nanny #2 said she signed an NDA so she could not disclose who it was. She offered to let me talk to her nanny friend who first told her about the job.
Both nannies do have other great references, and I plan to ask Nanny #1 about the situation in more detail and to speak with Nanny #2's friend. But it does concern me that I won't be able to verify anything they say with the former employers. I recognize even good nannies can sometimes have bad luck. However, I want to make sure I'm not missing a huge red flag for some serious issue here.
My questions:
1) For MBs: In what situation would you let a nanny go, write her a mildly positive reference letter, but not be comfortable talking to future potential employers about why the relationship ended? What might be going on here?
2) Does this NDA sound like a real thing? I've only heard of nanny NDAs covering personal info (like finances, medical issues, etc.), but the actual identity of the employer seems really odd. And why would a nanny agree to this, since it sounds like there'd be no chance of a reference even if the nanny does a great job?
Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Nanny #1: had one reference letter from a family from a few years ago (where she worked FT for half a year) that was rather curt but mentioned several positive traits. When I called the MB to verify employment details, she said she "let the nanny go" but did not want to say why, saying I should ask Nanny #1 directly and pretty much hung up on me.
Nanny #2: most recent job was 2 years with a "private family." She told me the decision to end it was mutual due to poor fit and went into quite a bit of detail about the issues she experienced on the job. When I asked if I could speak to the family to hear their side or at least verify her employment there, Nanny #2 said she signed an NDA so she could not disclose who it was. She offered to let me talk to her nanny friend who first told her about the job.
Both nannies do have other great references, and I plan to ask Nanny #1 about the situation in more detail and to speak with Nanny #2's friend. But it does concern me that I won't be able to verify anything they say with the former employers. I recognize even good nannies can sometimes have bad luck. However, I want to make sure I'm not missing a huge red flag for some serious issue here.
My questions:
1) For MBs: In what situation would you let a nanny go, write her a mildly positive reference letter, but not be comfortable talking to future potential employers about why the relationship ended? What might be going on here?
2) Does this NDA sound like a real thing? I've only heard of nanny NDAs covering personal info (like finances, medical issues, etc.), but the actual identity of the employer seems really odd. And why would a nanny agree to this, since it sounds like there'd be no chance of a reference even if the nanny does a great job?
Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!