Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Okay, maybe I'm missing something. To me, a meltdown and a tantrum are completely different. A tantrum is purely behavior, and the child is trying to get their own way. A meltdown is the result of being overtired, hungry, scared, etc (all things that the adult can see building). If the child is having meltdowns frequently, you and the parents need to look at the activity schedule, meal and snack times and amount of sleep. If the child is misbehaving and throwing tantrums, that's totally unacceptable. How did you handle tantrums when he was 1, 2, 3?

I call it a meltdown because that's what the parents like to call it. What he will do is become very angry and then run towards the parent attempting to shove the really hard,throw toys, scream, sometimes cry. The reasons are varied. Sometimes he is tired, sometimes just wants to get his way. They call it a meltdown regardless. It's hard for me to say what it is because even when the parents say he slept enough and he ate everything at school he will still do that, and will show no improvement after eating more at home. If it's a true meltdown as per your definition, then maybe the parents are misjudging the amount of sleep he needs but he sleeps 12h according to them.

I cant really see it build up because the first time I see him each day is when he walks out the door at school. As soon as he sees me he puts on the attitude, makes a point to make an angry face and acts as if he is very angry.

I have no idea what went on before that point because he was at school and the teachers always say he was fine. Asking him gets me nowhere. As for how I handled similar behavior when he was younger, I have only watched him for a little less than a year and he has never acted so poorly so often. He never had a full on tantrum or meltdown with me, even now, because as soon as I see that he's getting angry or upset, I talk to him to help him understand his feelings and that seems to prevent it from getting to the point I've seen him get with his parents. Talking to him calms him down, but minutes later the same thing happens again if he doesn't get his way and then I have to spend the whole time talking to him about his feelings and getting told he doesn't like me, that he never wants me to come back again. Then we talk, he improves, and when its finally time for me to go, he doesn't want me to or asks to come along with me.

His most frequent excuses for his behavior are that he is tired and that he wanted his mom to pick him up instead. But when he says he is tired, he never wants to rest. And if he remembers something fun that he wants to do all of a sudden he's happy and claims to not be tired at all so I dont know if he's just using that as an excuse or not. As for wanting his mom to pick him up, there's not much I can do about that. I tell him that tbere are days that his mom picks him up, at least once a week, that she spends all evenings and weekends with him. That she needed help on some days and she's very happy that I can pick him up and play with him, that he also likes me and has fun with me as well. But that only helps temporarily.

Okay, it sounds like you aren't being consistent, and I'm not sure why. If he's behaving badly, he needs to not be rewarded for that behavior. That means that when he remembers fun things he wants to do, he doesn't get to do them, and you explain that it's clear he needs to eat his snack (bring it to school and have him stand there and eat before you walk home) and then he needs a nap.

Anonymous wrote:What is your weekly schedule with him, and what is your normal routine after you walk home from school? How much distance is the walk?

The walk is about half a mile. The schedule is that I pick him up from school, he gets his things, puts on his jacket and goes to the restroom.he gets to choose what to do first and whether he wants me to hold his bag or not. He usually does not want to go to the restroom even if he has to, but he does eventually go when I point out that we can only leave after he goes since the walk takes sometimes 20 min and we had some accidents before.

Then we walk home. As soon as we get there I make him a snack that he always gets to choose from the options his parents allow. Usually I also eat a snack with him. Then we clean up together and after that its free play for 2 to 3 hours,depending on the day. I try to bring fun activities like crafts, coloring pages, games but he almost always wants to play the same games where he tries to control everything I do. I try to discourage him from them by offering other options but he is rarely interested in anything else. In the past he was more open to suggestions, but now he rarely wants to do anything I suggest. He also always wants me to play along with whatever it is he wants. He has never played independently while with me.

I don't push anything related to play time because this is supposed to be a relaxing time for him after being in school all day. I also almost always suggest that we go to the park or play with his friends after school but he very rarely agrees. He agreed to play with friends after school maybe 3 times in nearly a year and going to the park and a children's museum about 4 times total.

What is your weekly schedule with him, and what is your normal routine after you walk home from school? How much distance is the walk?

Anonymous wrote:
Okay, maybe I'm missing something. To me, a meltdown and a tantrum are completely different. A tantrum is purely behavior, and the child is trying to get their own way. A meltdown is the result of being overtired, hungry, scared, etc (all things that the adult can see building). If the child is having meltdowns frequently, you and the parents need to look at the activity schedule, meal and snack times and amount of sleep. If the child is misbehaving and throwing tantrums, that's totally unacceptable. How did you handle tantrums when he was 1, 2, 3?

I call it a meltdown because that's what the parents like to call it. What he will do is become very angry and then run towards the parent attempting to shove the really hard,throw toys, scream, sometimes cry. The reasons are varied. Sometimes he is tired, sometimes just wants to get his way. They call it a meltdown regardless. It's hard for me to say what it is because even when the parents say he slept enough and he ate everything at school he will still do that, and will show no improvement after eating more at home. If it's a true meltdown as per your definition, then maybe the parents are misjudging the amount of sleep he needs but he sleeps 12h according to them.

I cant really see it build up because the first time I see him each day is when he walks out the door at school. As soon as he sees me he puts on the attitude, makes a point to make an angry face and acts as if he is very angry.

I have no idea what went on before that point because he was at school and the teachers always say he was fine. Asking him gets me nowhere. As for how I handled similar behavior when he was younger, I have only watched him for a little less than a year and he has never acted so poorly so often. He never had a full on tantrum or meltdown with me, even now, because as soon as I see that he's getting angry or upset, I talk to him to help him understand his feelings and that seems to prevent it from getting to the point I've seen him get with his parents. Talking to him calms him down, but minutes later the same thing happens again if he doesn't get his way and then I have to spend the whole time talking to him about his feelings and getting told he doesn't like me, that he never wants me to come back again. Then we talk, he improves, and when its finally time for me to go, he doesn't want me to or asks to come along with me.

His most frequent excuses for his behavior are that he is tired and that he wanted his mom to pick him up instead. But when he says he is tired, he never wants to rest. And if he remembers something fun that he wants to do all of a sudden he's happy and claims to not be tired at all so I dont know if he's just using that as an excuse or not. As for wanting his mom to pick him up, there's not much I can do about that. I tell him that tbere are days that his mom picks him up, at least once a week, that she spends all evenings and weekends with him. That she needed help on some days and she's very happy that I can pick him up and play with him, that he also likes me and has fun with me as well. But that only helps temporarily.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for the suggestions. I have read looked up information on this but didn't find many things that I could do considering I only watch him every other day and only for a few hours.

As for who else watches him, just me, teachers at school and his parents. I am not the only person he acts out with either. His parents often tell me that he had a melt down the day before. Sometimes I tell him he did when and later we talk about something for the next time I pick him up and they mention he is having a melt down, even on days he was perfectly fine with me and had no problem behaving and being happy.

The snack is a good suggestion, I will ask his parents about that.

As for not being good at handling 4 year olds...I watch 2 other kids nearly the same age as him (one is a few days younger and the other 6 months younger) and there have been no issues at all with them. They are like every other kid in this age range that I have met. Listen most of the time, it never takes more than explaining things or negotiating a little so that everyone is happy. They can play independently. They don't try to control my every more when we play together. Sometimes they will cry or get angry, but it is a rare occurrence and they are never angry at me for something that I have no control over. They also have never tried to hit me, were never disrespectful or defiant. But of course there is the possibility that I have been lucky with the kids that I have met and watched over the past 25 years and they were all angels.

As for the little boy, things never got out of control with him, I am not having difficulty getting him to listen and do things (even if sometimes I have to resort to counting to three). He has good days, I have had many good days with him in the past. I'm just concerned that recently he seems to be having more bad days than good.

The fact that he seems to have very poor impulse control can be very frustrating. Yes, I can handle it, I can redirect, ask, negotiate. However, dealing with that on a regular basis is not exactly pleasant. Not to mention the most important thing, that it likely means there's something that is not making him happy because in my experience children usually don't act out when they are happy and content. And he did not use to act so poorly. Not with me at least.

While I agree that this behavior might not be completely abnormal, I also think that it is a sign that he is having trouble with something.

I could just accept that this is normal behavior and nothing needs to be done..and that I'm not good with four year olds apparently? But then he will still not feel good every other day of the week, which does not seem ideal.

I will look up information on helping kids deal with the feelings, that is a very good idea. I did not think to look for that as I was looking for the specific issues that I'm observing but was not having the best of luck. Most of it is directed at parents and assumes you are the main caregiver. There are many things that don't seem like they will be efficient if done only every other day for less than 5 hours.

Lately I have been feeling more like a therapist than a babysitter, as I have to spend most of the time talking about his behavior and trying to explain to him in a gentle and respectful manner why it is important to be nice and respect others and why we can't take out our anger on others or break our toys just because we are angry, why being tired is not an excuse to behave poorly, that we need to stop and think what is bothering and try to fix and ask for help, etc etc.

Okay, maybe I'm missing something. To me, a meltdown and a tantrum are completely different. A tantrum is purely behavior, and the child is trying to get their own way. A meltdown is the result of being overtired, hungry, scared, etc (all things that the adult can see building). If the child is having meltdowns frequently, you and the parents need to look at the activity schedule, meal and snack times and amount of sleep. If the child is misbehaving and throwing tantrums, that's totally unacceptable. How did you handle tantrums when he was 1, 2, 3?

OP here. Thank you for the suggestions. I have read looked up information on this but didn't find many things that I could do considering I only watch him every other day and only for a few hours.

As for who else watches him, just me, teachers at school and his parents. I am not the only person he acts out with either. His parents often tell me that he had a melt down the day before. Sometimes I tell him he did when and later we talk about something for the next time I pick him up and they mention he is having a melt down, even on days he was perfectly fine with me and had no problem behaving and being happy.

The snack is a good suggestion, I will ask his parents about that.

As for not being good at handling 4 year olds...I watch 2 other kids nearly the same age as him (one is a few days younger and the other 6 months younger) and there have been no issues at all with them. They are like every other kid in this age range that I have met. Listen most of the time, it never takes more than explaining things or negotiating a little so that everyone is happy. They can play independently. They don't try to control my every more when we play together. Sometimes they will cry or get angry, but it is a rare occurrence and they are never angry at me for something that I have no control over. They also have never tried to hit me, were never disrespectful or defiant. But of course there is the possibility that I have been lucky with the kids that I have met and watched over the past 25 years and they were all angels.

As for the little boy, things never got out of control with him, I am not having difficulty getting him to listen and do things (even if sometimes I have to resort to counting to three). He has good days, I have had many good days with him in the past. I'm just concerned that recently he seems to be having more bad days than good.

The fact that he seems to have very poor impulse control can be very frustrating. Yes, I can handle it, I can redirect, ask, negotiate. However, dealing with that on a regular basis is not exactly pleasant. Not to mention the most important thing, that it likely means there's something that is not making him happy because in my experience children usually don't act out when they are happy and content. And he did not use to act so poorly. Not with me at least.

While I agree that this behavior might not be completely abnormal, I also think that it is a sign that he is having trouble with something.

I could just accept that this is normal behavior and nothing needs to be done..and that I'm not good with four year olds apparently? But then he will still not feel good every other day of the week, which does not seem ideal.

I will look up information on helping kids deal with the feelings, that is a very good idea. I did not think to look for that as I was looking for the specific issues that I'm observing but was not having the best of luck. Most of it is directed at parents and assumes you are the main caregiver. There are many things that don't seem like they will be efficient if done only every other day for less than 5 hours.

Lately I have been feeling more like a therapist than a babysitter, as I have to spend most of the time talking about his behavior and trying to explain to him in a gentle and respectful manner why it is important to be nice and respect others and why we can't take out our anger on others or break our toys just because we are angry, why being tired is not an excuse to behave poorly, that we need to stop and think what is bothering and try to fix and ask for help, etc etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THere is a lot of really great literature out there on dealing w/ this kind of quite normal behavior for these ages.

Try a google search for 4 yr old behavioral issues, or go to your library and take out a book or two.

THere are also wonderful books for kids on dealing w/ anger, managing their emotions, learning how to talk about feelings, etc... Many of those have been helpful to me w/ my kids.

Shoving his things at her is not normal behavior at any age. His symptoms are very serious and are bound to escalate is there isn't an effective and consistent strategy put in place to address his anger.

Shoving a jacket is an anger issue for a four year old? Sounds like you have issues ...

I've never had a child of any age "shove" anything at me, but that's just me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THere is a lot of really great literature out there on dealing w/ this kind of quite normal behavior for these ages.

Try a google search for 4 yr old behavioral issues, or go to your library and take out a book or two.

THere are also wonderful books for kids on dealing w/ anger, managing their emotions, learning how to talk about feelings, etc... Many of those have been helpful to me w/ my kids.

Shoving his things at her is not normal behavior at any age. His symptoms are very serious and are bound to escalate is there isn't an effective and consistent strategy put in place to address his anger.

Shoving a jacket is an anger issue for a four year old? Sounds like you have issues ...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THere is a lot of really great literature out there on dealing w/ this kind of quite normal behavior for these ages.

Try a google search for 4 yr old behavioral issues, or go to your library and take out a book or two.

THere are also wonderful books for kids on dealing w/ anger, managing their emotions, learning how to talk about feelings, etc... Many of those have been helpful to me w/ my kids.

Shoving his things at her is not normal behavior at any age. His symptoms are very serious and are bound to escalate is there isn't an effective and consistent strategy put in place to address his anger.

Ha! You haven't been around many 4 year old boys have you. Nothing in OPs post indicated major anger issues, it sounds like she just isn't very good at dealing with kids this age.

+1 it is totally normal behavior BUT it does need to be addressed, which OP is seeking advice on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THere is a lot of really great literature out there on dealing w/ this kind of quite normal behavior for these ages.

Try a google search for 4 yr old behavioral issues, or go to your library and take out a book or two.

THere are also wonderful books for kids on dealing w/ anger, managing their emotions, learning how to talk about feelings, etc... Many of those have been helpful to me w/ my kids.

Shoving his things at her is not normal behavior at any age. His symptoms are very serious and are bound to escalate is there isn't an effective and consistent strategy put in place to address his anger.

Ha! You haven't been around many 4 year old boys have you. Nothing in OPs post indicated major anger issues, it sounds like she just isn't very good at dealing with kids this age.

Anonymous wrote:THere is a lot of really great literature out there on dealing w/ this kind of quite normal behavior for these ages.

Try a google search for 4 yr old behavioral issues, or go to your library and take out a book or two.

THere are also wonderful books for kids on dealing w/ anger, managing their emotions, learning how to talk about feelings, etc... Many of those have been helpful to me w/ my kids.

Shoving his things at her is not normal behavior at any age. His symptoms are very serious and are bound to escalate is there isn't an effective and consistent strategy put in place to address his anger.

Try bringing a snack to pick up to eat on the way home. He might just be hungry and not realize it. See if that helps his mood.

THere is a lot of really great literature out there on dealing w/ this kind of quite normal behavior for these ages.

Try a google search for 4 yr old behavioral issues, or go to your library and take out a book or two.

THere are also wonderful books for kids on dealing w/ anger, managing their emotions, learning how to talk about feelings, etc... Many of those have been helpful to me w/ my kids.

Seems to me like something's going on at school.
Who else cares for him besides you?
Stop allowing him to control you, even in play. He should have a play date for that so he can learn how to behave.

I have been watching a 4 1/2 y.o a few hours per week for almost one year. He is a really nice kid. On good days, he is wonderful, a perfect child. His parents are also wonderful, don't seem to let him get away with whatever he wants and if I mention that he was not a good listener or was disrespectful, they always talk to him about it which is amazing.

However, despite all the conversations his parents have with him and the conversations that I have with him, explaining that we have to treat people nicely, even when we are sad, tired or angry, that we have to ask nicely and not demand things or boss people around. That I always treat him nicely and with respect even though sometimes I am also very tired, sad or even angry. Immediately after talking to him, there's some improvement or at the very least he looks like he realizes he should not act that way, but it never lasts.

And instead of this happening less often after talking calmly and respectfully, it's becoming more and more common. Lately, nearly every time I pick him up from school, as soon as he sees me he makes an angry face, looks down or away from me and doesn't want to talk to me or that I talk to him. Or just flat out tells me he doesn't want me there. Shoves his things at me for me to carry for him instead of asking and other rude behavior.

If I have to say something to him that is important, like put your jacket on, are you hungry, please go to the restroom before we leave, etc then he is rude and takes quite a while to actually do what what was asked. Other than important things like those and safety instructions I let him choose what to do. He chooses what to have for a snack, which way to walk home, which toys to play with, even which toys I have to play with. In the past, this behavior was occasional and when it became frequent, it was solved by me and his parents talking to him about it. Recently, talking does not seem to have any lasting effect.

I'm puzzled because he seems to love me and is almost always upset when I have to go home and always wants to keep playing with me. But for the first hour or so, he is not nice at all. Sometimes he blames it on being tired, or that he is sad because he wanted one of his parents to pick him up instead. Or that he is hungry. Sometimes this attitude lasts nearly the entire day going as far as him being very bossy and wanting me to do everything he says, exactly as he says even during play, or else he gets very angry. When we are playing together, he wants to tell me what to do step by step, as if he's directing a movie or something and if I don't say exactly what was asked or move in the exact right way that was asked, a mini meltdown will ensue.

I have been trying to tell him that when we are playing we are allowed to do whatever we want. That I can't tell him what to do and he can't tell me either. We can ask what we want or give suggestions, but we have to accept no for an answer. Still he insists on trying and I have to walk on eggshells the whole day to be able to not be bossed around while still making sure he doesn't melt down completely.

I have also tried telling him that when he is not nice when I pick him up, then he does not get to walk past his favorite spots on the way home. He is upset when that happens, but it's not incentive enough to get him to act better. Also, if I happen to mention anything nice or exciting, his mood immediately improves and all of a sudden he is my best friend. But I can't possible do that because that would be pretty much bribing him to be nice. Also tried telling him that is he's too tired to be nice, then he has to rest. No luck with that either.

To be fair, if I tell him that if he keeps being bossy or disrespectful or whatever he is doing, then I cannot play with him and he will need to play by himself then that gets him to act better (usually) but like everything else, does not last long. Counting to 3 when he is not listening will also work but I only use it as a last resort when it's a matter of safety or health.

I'm at a loss about what else I could try. I'm sure something is going on that is bothering him for him to be acting so poorly. But neither me or his parents have been able to figure out what or how to fix it. The only thing we can come up with is him being tired and maybe changes in the routine (school breaks, sickness, etc) but I have no control over those things and I feel they cannot be used as a free pass to act poorly, as I feel he is doing with the tired thing because he uses that excuse even when he is clearly not tired.

I'm hoping to get some suggestions that will help me make the time enjoyable for both of us again. Because as of lately, it's only enjoyable to him and that's only once he gets home and if he gets his way 99% of the time.