Anonymous
Post 01/29/2014 09:15     Subject: Feeling Stuck, mostly a vent

OP back again. Thanks again to all of you, and especially to the nannies who replied. Your feedback helped me clear my head a bit and get a bit of perspective.

We will be continuing to support Lucy for at least the short term and through her immediate medical situation, but we will manage that a little differently so that we're not taking on more personal responsibility for her than we think is appropriate or feasible.

I did have a conversation with her about the weather and the kids getting out and she understood. We will compromise on that some, as I can understand a blustery 10 degree day being genuinely unpleasant, and she knows that the kids need more stimulation than can be provided within our four walls. Hopefully DC's actual winter weather and brutal cold won't go on for months.

Just as an aside, I can't believe we had an entire thread without any snark or wild tangents! How great!
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2014 19:17     Subject: Feeling Stuck, mostly a vent

Seasoned MB here. I would end this relationship as soon as possible. Pull off the bandaid and be done. Hire another nanny or switch to daycare.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2014 18:39     Subject: Feeling Stuck, mostly a vent

You've gotten some good advice here, OP. the only thing I would add is that she should identify the patient advocate/social worker at the hospital she is planning on having her surgeries. She should also identify other social service organizations who can provide advice.

Also, I understand why you would keep her job for her or offer short term disability, but why would you be paying her medical bills? This seems to cross the line between employer/employee and might make it more difficult to restructure her job or replace her if she is unable to recover sufficiently to be the nanny you need.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2014 18:29     Subject: Feeling Stuck, mostly a vent

I'm also a nanny, and I agree that this conversation needs to take place. Largely because these kinds of blurred boundaries could "ruin" the nanny/family relationship for future work together--basically, once she gets used to a certain level of accomodation, it will be hard for her to be content going back to more accountability, then she may feel you are being too demanding/you feel she's being ungrateful and before you know it, the whole thing's a mess!

So I would have one conversation about going outside. Figure out what your expectations are. E.g., "At least 20 minutes a day provided it isn't actively raining for the entire day and is over X degrees." I took my 5-year-old charges on an hour long hike during the brief snow storm this weekend, and they were fine. Make sure you both have proper all-weather gear (waterproof boots and gloves, snow pants, parkas, hats, etc.) and that she knows how to use them (bottom layer to wick moisture, mid layer or insulater snowpant/parka to provide warmth, top layer to keep dry) and I would wonder whether she has proper gear for herself or if that is contributing to her view that it's dangerously cold. If she refuses, then. I would regard that as a serious problem.

As for the ongoing stuff, talk to your husband and figure out what you can do (X hours per week of insurance help, X number of last-minute cancelations before you penalize in some way, X amount of PTO) and then just tell her clearly.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2014 16:58     Subject: Feeling Stuck, mostly a vent

I was a nanny for a family and found myself in a similar medical situation. I commend you for being great employers and caring human beings.

Relationships between families and their nanny is so complex, sometimes you don't know when to draw the line.

Fortunately for me, the family I worked for saw how much I loved their children and how dedicated I was at taking care of them. When I got sick they had reservations about what to do and went against what everyone they knew told them to do- fire me. They knew their work schedule limitations and found a mother's helper to come in while I was in recovery. I was so grateful to them for all their love and support. When I recovered I was so much better and continued working for them for the next five years.

I think you need to have a conversation with your nanny and set realistic expectations. I was in my early twenties and recovered quite quickly. It sounds like perhaps this is not the case for Lucy. Listing all of the wonderful ways you have helped her, I'm sure she wouldn't see it as an attack, but as an eye-opener about the reality of the situation. She is probably scared and perhaps in denial about the surgery and her recovery process. Perhaps talking about them will bring her to the same realizations that you are having. Hopefully Lucy will see the limitations that will be imposed on everyone and both of you can reach an agreement on what is best for all parties.

Good Luck and keep us posted.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2014 16:19     Subject: Re:Feeling Stuck, mostly a vent

MB here. You are definitely in a tough position OP and I commend you for trying to do the right thing. It makes me think about the value of disability insurance in this situation--its not required in MD/DC/VA, but your post highlights a situation where it could be helpful. I think ultimately you have to do what you can, but not at the expense of your own family. I don't think you should feel obligated to pay her for her extended sick leave beyond her PTO that you have in her contract. I have very good benefits at my job, but when I took an 8 week leave for illness I was not paid for that beyond my PTO. Thats what short term disability is for. You are going to have to pay someone else during that time and its not fair to you to do both. Rather than helping her pay for medical bills (it sounds like she has insurance? if not, definitely help her get on the exchange and get a plan), most hospitals will set up very reasonable payment plans or even reduce bills with a simple phone call. Good luck!
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2014 15:17     Subject: Feeling Stuck, mostly a vent

OP, just wanted to say I feel for you. It's obvious that you're trying to do the right thing, and that is very honorable. But at the end of the day, you also need to be doing the right thing for your family, and unfortunately that is going to, in some situations, trump what might be the best thing for your nanny. Perhaps some type of lengthy severance (two months?) might be better than double paying for child care during that period anyway and then realizing slowly upon her return that she's never going to be the committed care provider you need. And I agree, the refusal to adapt to the weather would be a major issue for me. I'm truly sorry.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2014 14:33     Subject: Feeling Stuck, mostly a vent

Thank you all for these thoughtful replies. I appreciate the input and perspective, and I like (and agree with) some of the specific suggestions.

- OP
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2014 14:02     Subject: Feeling Stuck, mostly a vent

I think you and DB need to have a meeting with her where you say everything you've said here. Ask her what her plans are, tell her what your expectations are and what your limits are, and let her know what you're concerned about.

You can also call your county and find out about any social services available for someone in her situation (i.e., no support network, needs help with insurance, needs post-surgery help).

You and DB need to really think through what your limits are. She is not your daughter or your mother, and you are also not a giant corporation.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2014 13:45     Subject: Feeling Stuck, mostly a vent

Anonymous wrote:MB here. What I am wondering is, will the surgeries she is facing bring her back to 100%? Also, what is HER plan for paying for what insurance doesn't cover? I mean, if her plan is to look sadly at you with puppy eyes until you say you'll pay for it, that's not cool.

I understand you want her to stay with nannying your kids for the future - I want my kid to only have one nanny too - but maybe she's had a hard life. And hard living affects different people differently. Maybe at 50 she is slowing down to where someone in their late 70's might be. The reality may be that you simply need to get someone else, and have Lucy as your backup for THAT person.

The refusal to go out in snow after living here for 30 years would be a deal-breaker for me. I'd happily send my husband out to fetch her from home in the evening and have her sleep over so she ensures being at work in the morning. But refusing to take the kids out would be unacceptable.


I agree with this. I am a foreigner and come from a warm place (winter temperature seldom gets to 32F, and if so, just for a few days, snows about once every 15 years). I have been in DC for 12 years, and my kids were out sledding this week end, and they go out all the time even when is very cold. if she has been here for 30 years, it is unbelievable that the nanny is not used to this weather, kids need to go out, if she does not like it she needs to move to Florida or suck it up. she cannot keep them inside for weeks because she does not like the cold.

from your message, I get that you need a new nanny but feel guilty about dumping Lucy. the hard reality is that this is a relationship between employee and employer, and you should treat it as such. this does not mean kicking the nanny to the curb the first day she is sick. but if she cannot work for an extended period of time, or if she become unreliable, you need to think what is going to happen to YOUR job (and your spouse's job) if you keep having to scramble for care for your kids. unfortunately, you are not her family and cannot feel that void. talk to the nanny and ask her how she is planning to face the situation, but be careful about not making this your problem, unless you want it to be your problem
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2014 11:57     Subject: Feeling Stuck, mostly a vent

MB here. What I am wondering is, will the surgeries she is facing bring her back to 100%? Also, what is HER plan for paying for what insurance doesn't cover? I mean, if her plan is to look sadly at you with puppy eyes until you say you'll pay for it, that's not cool.

I understand you want her to stay with nannying your kids for the future - I want my kid to only have one nanny too - but maybe she's had a hard life. And hard living affects different people differently. Maybe at 50 she is slowing down to where someone in their late 70's might be. The reality may be that you simply need to get someone else, and have Lucy as your backup for THAT person.

The refusal to go out in snow after living here for 30 years would be a deal-breaker for me. I'd happily send my husband out to fetch her from home in the evening and have her sleep over so she ensures being at work in the morning. But refusing to take the kids out would be unacceptable.
Anonymous
Post 01/27/2014 11:45     Subject: Feeling Stuck, mostly a vent

Also a MB. I feel for you.

In the corporate world, a good employer would keep her on at this point, with the expectation that she would more than likely be able to return to work, and then in the longer term if her health continued to prevent her from doing her job she would eventually be put on long-term disability or laid off. In fact, there are probably labour regulations around this that require this kind of approach.

But a family only has so much money, it is a difficult situation. You have made a certain commitment to her by the action you have already taken, and you need to see this through to some extent. For example, maybe you need to stop helping her with figuring out her insurance, and just explain that it is putting a real strain on you. You can't know for sure that the health issues are going to continue, but if you start now with reducing your involvement in some areas of her life, that might at least send her the message that she needs to be a bit more self sufficient. But for now, do as you've committed and feel is right, i.e. have her job ready for her to come back to when she is better.

And talk to her. Sit down and explain some of this to her. It's clear you will be sensitive and diplomatic. Don't let her think that her job is at risk, as that will just stress her out and impede her recovery. Be positive, say that you are doing all that you can to help her, that it is hard on everyone at the moment and you really hope that the end result will be good health for her and a long and happy relationship with your family.

I think you also need to talk to her about taking your kids outside though. This seems important to you. Express your understanding of her fears but say that your kids really need to be able to play outside even in colder weather and can she think of any ways in which this could be worked out. If she has worked in the US for 30 years in an area with harsh winters surely she must be able to find some way of accommodating you on this.

Good luck!

Anonymous
Post 01/27/2014 10:06     Subject: Feeling Stuck, mostly a vent

I'm an MB. I'm struggling some with our nanny situation and am a little afraid of even posting here because I know how unpleasant things can get, but I need to vent a bit and at least this is anonymous.

We have twin toddlers, who have had the same nanny since they were 4 months old. She is now in her third year with our family and she is great. It is my hope that she would be with us well into their early school years if we can continue to afford it, and if she is interested in staying with us rather than finding a family with younger children again. I will call her Lucy for the purpose of this email.

Lucy is older. She is in her late 50's, but she handles our kids with more patience, energy, and enjoyment than anyone I could have hoped to find - at any age. I trust Lucy absolutely completely with my kids' well-being, our home, everything we own, our cars, our money, etc... So we hit the jackpot and I think Lucy is very happy also in her job. Lucy is a US citizen, who has lived and worked here for 30 years, is fluent in English, and is paid legally. We pay her well, give good benefits, have given her 10% raises and a significant bonus every year, she has very competitive benefits, etc...

Lucy does not have any family here - she is divorced, has no children, and her family are all in her home country - which she visits annually. She has some local friends, and very close relationships with former families for whom she has been a nanny.

The problem I'm facing is that in the last 6 months things have taken somewhat of a turn. Lucy's health is not what it was when we hired her. She needs to have a couple of surgeries (one of which will require her to need 4-6 weeks of time off), she has had multiple small/chronic conditions develop - one involving an inner ear situation that flares up without warning and takes her out of commission for a few days. She (along with our whole family) got the wicked cold that has been going around this winter and was out or significantly under the weather for almost 2 weeks earlier this month. She is from South America so is very uneasy with winter weather or significant cold so in the past few weeks (we're in MD) we have had her stay with us for many nights when there was any concern of (or any actual) winter weather. She won't take the kids out in the cold so our kids are not getting out of the house at all during the day. (Lucy isn't trying to defy our wishes, she's genuinely scared of the weather or any snow on the ground - so she's just afraid to go out.) With her holiday, vacation, and sick leave she gets 30 paid days off a year (plus usually some extras at holidays or if we go away). She has already used close to 8 of those days in January for fairly routine things - without even beginning to figure out the time off for her surgeries. She does not have a strong local support system so we (husband and I) are helping her figure out the various insurance nightmares related to her upcoming surgeries, helping her deal with car repairs, helping to find her and then move her to a new apartment, driving her places when she is afraid to be on the road, taking her to urgent care on Christmas morning when her inner ear problem flared up, etc... We care very much for her and she has sought our support and involvement.

So, in addition to supporting her through all of this things, we have also been frequently having to scramble to take time off, get back-up care on short notice, work our schedules around Lucy's needs, spend probably 15hrs or more over weekends and evenings on her insurance questions just in the last 2 weeks, etc... It is draining, expensive, stressful, and exhausting. I'm feeling very torn at what is becoming an increasing drain on us, but also the burden of what Lucy is facing. We want to help her - of course, and we want her to get good care and the recovery time she needs and we're trying to figure out how much we can help her financially (in terms of paying her for an extended time out for recovery, helping with some medical bills which may be substantial, etc...) But we cannot be her family and full support network. And we really need reliable care. Planning for an extended medical absence is something we can do, and something we want to do for Lucy - we want her to be with us for the long-term. But the reality of the past 2 months is not something we can accept as the norm, and I am afraid this will be the case for the next 6 months, and perhaps even the long-term. There is no way to know that of course.

So I know this is terribly long - I apologize. There is no magic answer here. It's just incredibly difficult to support Lucy to the extent we feel able (and want to do) and also ensure that we have reliable, high-quality childcare that I trust and that isn't a source of additional stress (or unmangeable financial burden). I'm walking around feeling frustrated at the price my family and kids are paying, worried about Lucy's health and well-being and needs, and guilty at the impossibility of taking care of everyone equally well. There isn't a scenario where we can get everyone everything they need unless we hire a full-time second nanny to be on call, and devote 10's of thousands of dollars to Lucy's health needs.

Some might say we're too involved in her life and we have made a mistake in allowing that to happen. I get that - but we really do care for her and she's in a tough spot with the medical stuff and lack of family support.

And some might say we should focus on the big picture and her first 18 months with us - if she gets back to that level of reliability then 5 years from now this period will seem like no big deal. And some might say that there is no ceiling on what we should be willing spend on quality care for our kids, even if that includes paying two people for the job for a couple of month, and paying Lucy's medical bills, etc...

I just don't know how to do this well and graciously, and without continuing to feel as torn and stressed as I am currently. I feel very strongly about behaving professionally and respectfully as an employer, and I also feel very strongly about caring for the people who matter in our lives. Mostly those things have been possible to do harmoniously so far but now it's getting tougher.

So - I guess I have no real question, but I'd welcome suggestions if you have any. And I totally get it if this was just too long and rambling to stand. It helps me just to write it out and think it through a bit.