Anonymous
09/12/2013 08:30
Subject: Re:Finding a nanny for 4 kids
I've cared for 5+ children under age 10 alone.
I likely have the other qualities you'd want as well.
I'd want $22/hour or more plus benefits for this position. I know other nannies that fall in this grouping too- none of them would do it for less.
The amount of laundry alone much less managing all the other things for your school age children (meals, lunches for next day, planning activities, finding ways to help with the current school struggles, etc) means the nanny is doing a lot more work then she would for 1-2 kids even if only 1-2 are physically present. A lot more household management goes into this job in order to keep things organized and running smoothly.
Then add in all the extra illnesses, days off of school, juggling after school activities and play dates and holidays and the nanny has 3-4 kids more of the year then you realize.
Now if all you want is somebody to feed thm and keep them alive I think you can get by with the mentality it isn't much work. But most professionals would look at this job and what it requires to do it properly to our own high standards and it is clearly not an easy job.
I likely have the other qualities you'd want as well.
I'd want $22/hour or more plus benefits for this position. I know other nannies that fall in this grouping too- none of them would do it for less.
The amount of laundry alone much less managing all the other things for your school age children (meals, lunches for next day, planning activities, finding ways to help with the current school struggles, etc) means the nanny is doing a lot more work then she would for 1-2 kids even if only 1-2 are physically present. A lot more household management goes into this job in order to keep things organized and running smoothly.
Then add in all the extra illnesses, days off of school, juggling after school activities and play dates and holidays and the nanny has 3-4 kids more of the year then you realize.
Now if all you want is somebody to feed thm and keep them alive I think you can get by with the mentality it isn't much work. But most professionals would look at this job and what it requires to do it properly to our own high standards and it is clearly not an easy job.
Anonymous
09/12/2013 08:26
Subject: Re:Finding a nanny for 4 kids
Everyone ignores the 20-30/hr poster. She has fun posting nonsense rates constantly. I suspect she makes $10 an hour.
OP I think you should look for a nanny who has experience doing both multi-child care and housekeeping. This doesn't mean that you need to include housekeeping in your job but many of the no housekeeping nannies are just lazy. They search for jobs with the least work and the most pay. If you are paying on the higher average for 3 and saying no housework you may be attracting the lazy and flaky nannies. Eager to make the money, counting on no work because they see no housekeeping and then not being able to manage 4 kids for 3 hours.
When you check references, ask the reference what the nanny did during downtime (nap time or time at preschool) and only move forward with ones where the employer reports that she did something. If the time was her own, she re-charged, or the reference admits that she napped, watched TV, sat on the couch reading a book, move on. Lazy is lazy. This type of nanny will not be able to manage the 3 hours with multiple kids. She'll be more than happy to enjoy the morning with only 1 napping baby and afternoon nap times but will not manage the afternoon well. You want someone who the reference describes as always busy, takes initiatives and then the reference can talk about what they actually did.
OP I think you should look for a nanny who has experience doing both multi-child care and housekeeping. This doesn't mean that you need to include housekeeping in your job but many of the no housekeeping nannies are just lazy. They search for jobs with the least work and the most pay. If you are paying on the higher average for 3 and saying no housework you may be attracting the lazy and flaky nannies. Eager to make the money, counting on no work because they see no housekeeping and then not being able to manage 4 kids for 3 hours.
When you check references, ask the reference what the nanny did during downtime (nap time or time at preschool) and only move forward with ones where the employer reports that she did something. If the time was her own, she re-charged, or the reference admits that she napped, watched TV, sat on the couch reading a book, move on. Lazy is lazy. This type of nanny will not be able to manage the 3 hours with multiple kids. She'll be more than happy to enjoy the morning with only 1 napping baby and afternoon nap times but will not manage the afternoon well. You want someone who the reference describes as always busy, takes initiatives and then the reference can talk about what they actually did.
Anonymous
09/12/2013 08:20
Subject: Finding a nanny for 4 kids
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:MB here. I don't think I have much you'll want to hear, because it sounds to me like you're not getting the skill set or capabilities you want and need at the rate you're paying.
Even though the nanny doesn't have 4 kids to manage all day long, that is a significant number of kids even for a couple of hours, and with a significant age range and scope of responsibilities. It sounds pretty challenging to me to manage homework, snacks, infant care, and preschooler entertainment simultaneously every day for several hours. (I consider 3 several.) If the nanny is expected to leave the house in a clean and orderly state when she leaves (as mine is) that's also tricky to ensure when her peak craziness is at the end of the day.
It may not be an "insanely heavy workload" but it certainly isn't an easy job you're describing.
It honestly sounds pretty exhausting to me. If you know you're paying middle of the road rates, then so do your nannies and the reality for them is that they can make equal money (or better) for less work. They're getting great experience in managing multiple kids across age ranges and needs, but they can beat the money pretty easily.
So basically it sounds like you're running into the realities of the marketplace where you are. You have choices of course- plan on a more revolving door nanny arrangement and have back ups in place to weather the transitions; hire two nannies at a part time level so you have built-in backup (though you might have to pay more). Hire additional/cheaper help - a mommy's helper for after school with the kids for instance.
Or, do a search w/ a higher rate and see if it yields a stronger candidate pool.
Honestly, it sounds like you know the answer and you just don't like it. If you want better than middle of the road capabilities and tenure, then you need to pay better than middle of the road rates.
And I don't think 4 kids is typical - I think this is a job that skews to the more demanding/challenging positions - but I'll let the nannies here speak to that.
This is an excellent post and I completely agree with this MB. I'm curious as to what rate you are paying. I am paid $22 for 3 kids ( been with them for 5 years so this includes raises). Just because the kids nap doesn't mean it makes the job easy. There are always things that can be done when the child is napping. I'm not saying that nannies don't take a break but good ones will find things to do, and with 4 kids, there will always be something to do!
The age differences can also present a challenge. It's difficult to help older kids with homework, engage a toddler/pre-schooler and care for a baby. Kids are coming home from school and the baby is waking up from the second nap. Throw in cleaning and dinner prep and it's pretty much chaos for a few hours.
You will probably need to raise your rate in order to attract a candidate with the experience needed for this job.
I also agree with this poster. OP, you're not attracting the right people for some reason, partly because of money and probably somewhat because you don't recognize what a tough job this is. I'm a mom of two and the way you describe this job sounds utterly exhausting. Three hours with four different-aged kids at the end of the day alone would exhausting - that's juggling four somewhat cranky kids for several hours that have completely different interests and needs. I can't imagine having a 1yo on my hip, a 3yo running around, a 5yo and 7yo I have to convince to do their homework who are probably over-tired from a long day and want me to play with them. And that after already watching a 1yo and a 3yo all day. I get that the 1yo naps, but I've had two 1yos and it's not like you just put them to nap and they magically wake up 2 hours later after you're completely rested. Plus you're trying to put the 1yo to nap while you have the 3yo and then in the afternoon you're trying to put BOTH to nap. Oh and is she taking the 3yo to school and picking him up too twice a week? AND laundry for four kids? And keeping up with the kid's toys?
I'm not saying it's impossible, but this is probably one of the most challenging jobs I've ever seen posted about on DCUM, and I've been around for a long time. I too question how you what "middle of the road" for 4 kids is? I would assume there aren't that many families that have a nanny for 10-hour days with four kids, way too few to form a market-base that you would know about and feel comfortable saying your pay is middle of the road.
You need to be paying at least as much more than a typical nanny of 1-2 kids would to make it worth her time. You probably want to look for someone who wants to specialize in many kids so that you're helping her resume too. The pool of nannies who consider a 4-kid job is presumably pretty small, so that means even more competition between those families that need them. And all of that translates to higher rates.
Sorry, OP
Anonymous
09/12/2013 07:12
Subject: Finding a nanny for 4 kids
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Middle of the road for 4. High average if it was just 3. When we've upped the listed wage, we get the same people for the most part. Anxious to make more money but not anxious to manage 4 kids.
We also run into a lot of candidates who really truly believe that a nanny job should be from 9-5. No concept of the parents needing to get to or from jobs. Even with staggered schedules it is tough to do that!
This alone tells me you aren't interviewing professional nanny candidates. Most nannies work 10-12 hours per day to account for the parents' commuting time; any nanny with even two years of experience knows this. You're clearly being too cheap to get any response from the nannies you'd like to employ (but not pay for).
+1
I don't know of any nannies who expect a 9-5 schedule.
Anonymous
09/12/2013 03:11
Subject: Finding a nanny for 4 kids
OP, maybe you can think of a friend or relative who can help you, and not expect much money, maybe more of a "token" paycheck, in return for the workload. This assumes you really are unable to pay a better wage.
The best nannies earn up to 25-30/hr. for just one child.
The best nannies earn up to 25-30/hr. for just one child.
Anonymous
09/12/2013 00:53
Subject: Finding a nanny for 4 kids
What rate are you offering, OP? You sound like you are low-balling all your candidates, and frankly it's suspect that you didn't volunteer this basic information from the beginning.
Anonymous
09/12/2013 00:20
Subject: Finding a nanny for 4 kids
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:MB here. I don't think I have much you'll want to hear, because it sounds to me like you're not getting the skill set or capabilities you want and need at the rate you're paying.
Even though the nanny doesn't have 4 kids to manage all day long, that is a significant number of kids even for a couple of hours, and with a significant age range and scope of responsibilities. It sounds pretty challenging to me to manage homework, snacks, infant care, and preschooler entertainment simultaneously every day for several hours. (I consider 3 several.) If the nanny is expected to leave the house in a clean and orderly state when she leaves (as mine is) that's also tricky to ensure when her peak craziness is at the end of the day.
It may not be an "insanely heavy workload" but it certainly isn't an easy job you're describing.
It honestly sounds pretty exhausting to me. If you know you're paying middle of the road rates, then so do your nannies and the reality for them is that they can make equal money (or better) for less work. They're getting great experience in managing multiple kids across age ranges and needs, but they can beat the money pretty easily.
So basically it sounds like you're running into the realities of the marketplace where you are. You have choices of course- plan on a more revolving door nanny arrangement and have back ups in place to weather the transitions; hire two nannies at a part time level so you have built-in backup (though you might have to pay more). Hire additional/cheaper help - a mommy's helper for after school with the kids for instance.
Or, do a search w/ a higher rate and see if it yields a stronger candidate pool.
Honestly, it sounds like you know the answer and you just don't like it. If you want better than middle of the road capabilities and tenure, then you need to pay better than middle of the road rates.
And I don't think 4 kids is typical - I think this is a job that skews to the more demanding/challenging positions - but I'll let the nannies here speak to that.
This is an excellent post and I completely agree with this MB. I'm curious as to what rate you are paying. I am paid $22 for 3 kids ( been with them for 5 years so this includes raises). Just because the kids nap doesn't mean it makes the job easy. There are always things that can be done when the child is napping. I'm not saying that nannies don't take a break but good ones will find things to do, and with 4 kids, there will always be something to do!
The age differences can also present a challenge. It's difficult to help older kids with homework, engage a toddler/pre-schooler and care for a baby. Kids are coming home from school and the baby is waking up from the second nap. Throw in cleaning and dinner prep and it's pretty much chaos for a few hours.
PP here....sorry. I just read your post again and see that you do not need dinner prep. That makes it a little easier but 4 kids is stil
alot of work. I think the age differences present the most challenges.
You will probably need to raise your rate in order to attract a candidate with the experience needed for this job.
Anonymous
09/12/2013 00:17
Subject: Finding a nanny for 4 kids
Anonymous wrote:MB here. I don't think I have much you'll want to hear, because it sounds to me like you're not getting the skill set or capabilities you want and need at the rate you're paying.
Even though the nanny doesn't have 4 kids to manage all day long, that is a significant number of kids even for a couple of hours, and with a significant age range and scope of responsibilities. It sounds pretty challenging to me to manage homework, snacks, infant care, and preschooler entertainment simultaneously every day for several hours. (I consider 3 several.) If the nanny is expected to leave the house in a clean and orderly state when she leaves (as mine is) that's also tricky to ensure when her peak craziness is at the end of the day.
It may not be an "insanely heavy workload" but it certainly isn't an easy job you're describing.
It honestly sounds pretty exhausting to me. If you know you're paying middle of the road rates, then so do your nannies and the reality for them is that they can make equal money (or better) for less work. They're getting great experience in managing multiple kids across age ranges and needs, but they can beat the money pretty easily.
So basically it sounds like you're running into the realities of the marketplace where you are. You have choices of course- plan on a more revolving door nanny arrangement and have back ups in place to weather the transitions; hire two nannies at a part time level so you have built-in backup (though you might have to pay more). Hire additional/cheaper help - a mommy's helper for after school with the kids for instance.
Or, do a search w/ a higher rate and see if it yields a stronger candidate pool.
Honestly, it sounds like you know the answer and you just don't like it. If you want better than middle of the road capabilities and tenure, then you need to pay better than middle of the road rates.
And I don't think 4 kids is typical - I think this is a job that skews to the more demanding/challenging positions - but I'll let the nannies here speak to that.
This is an excellent post and I completely agree with this MB. I'm curious as to what rate you are paying. I am paid $22 for 3 kids ( been with them for 5 years so this includes raises). Just because the kids nap doesn't mean it makes the job easy. There are always things that can be done when the child is napping. I'm not saying that nannies don't take a break but good ones will find things to do, and with 4 kids, there will always be something to do!
The age differences can also present a challenge. It's difficult to help older kids with homework, engage a toddler/pre-schooler and care for a baby. Kids are coming home from school and the baby is waking up from the second nap. Throw in cleaning and dinner prep and it's pretty much chaos for a few hours.
You will probably need to raise your rate in order to attract a candidate with the experience needed for this job.
Anonymous
09/11/2013 23:49
Subject: Finding a nanny for 4 kids
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Middle of the road for 4. High average if it was just 3. When we've upped the listed wage, we get the same people for the most part. Anxious to make more money but not anxious to manage 4 kids.
We also run into a lot of candidates who really truly believe that a nanny job should be from 9-5. No concept of the parents needing to get to or from jobs. Even with staggered schedules it is tough to do that!
This alone tells me you aren't interviewing professional nanny candidates. Most nannies work 10-12 hours per day to account for the parents' commuting time; any nanny with even two years of experience knows this. You're clearly being too cheap to get any response from the nannies you'd like to employ (but not pay for).
Anonymous
09/11/2013 23:47
Subject: Re:Finding a nanny for 4 kids
Another poster to state the obvious: if your job isn't attracting candidates you like or who are capable of the job, you aren't attracting the right candidates. The only way to do that is to offer wages that will appeal to these nannies who, as you are discovering, can command a high hourly rate because of their exceptional skills.
Anonymous
09/11/2013 23:23
Subject: Finding a nanny for 4 kids
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Middle of the road for 4. High average if it was just 3. When we've upped the listed wage, we get the same people for the most part. Anxious to make more money but not anxious to manage 4 kids.
We also run into a lot of candidates who really truly believe that a nanny job should be from 9-5. No concept of the parents needing to get to or from jobs. Even with staggered schedules it is tough to do that!
You aren't offering enough money for a qualified nanny to accept your job.
To be quite frank, your post drips with condescension. I would venture to guess that candidates can pick up on that and want nothing to do with you. What rate do you pay?
Anonymous
09/11/2013 23:15
Subject: Finding a nanny for 4 kids
OP here. Middle of the road for 4. High average if it was just 3. When we've upped the listed wage, we get the same people for the most part. Anxious to make more money but not anxious to manage 4 kids.
We also run into a lot of candidates who really truly believe that a nanny job should be from 9-5. No concept of the parents needing to get to or from jobs. Even with staggered schedules it is tough to do that!
We also run into a lot of candidates who really truly believe that a nanny job should be from 9-5. No concept of the parents needing to get to or from jobs. Even with staggered schedules it is tough to do that!
Anonymous
09/11/2013 22:45
Subject: Finding a nanny for 4 kids
Throw money at the problem.
You aren't finding decent candidates who won't flake because they aren't willing to accept "middle of the road" pay for all of the work your family requires.
Laundry for 4 children is a HUGE undertaking in and of itself.
Are you paying middle of the road in general or middle of the road for 4 children? There is a big difference.
You aren't finding decent candidates who won't flake because they aren't willing to accept "middle of the road" pay for all of the work your family requires.
Laundry for 4 children is a HUGE undertaking in and of itself.
Are you paying middle of the road in general or middle of the road for 4 children? There is a big difference.
Anonymous
09/11/2013 22:38
Subject: Finding a nanny for 4 kids
MB here. I don't think I have much you'll want to hear, because it sounds to me like you're not getting the skill set or capabilities you want and need at the rate you're paying.
Even though the nanny doesn't have 4 kids to manage all day long, that is a significant number of kids even for a couple of hours, and with a significant age range and scope of responsibilities. It sounds pretty challenging to me to manage homework, snacks, infant care, and preschooler entertainment simultaneously every day for several hours. (I consider 3 several.) If the nanny is expected to leave the house in a clean and orderly state when she leaves (as mine is) that's also tricky to ensure when her peak craziness is at the end of the day.
It may not be an "insanely heavy workload" but it certainly isn't an easy job you're describing.
It honestly sounds pretty exhausting to me. If you know you're paying middle of the road rates, then so do your nannies and the reality for them is that they can make equal money (or better) for less work. They're getting great experience in managing multiple kids across age ranges and needs, but they can beat the money pretty easily.
So basically it sounds like you're running into the realities of the marketplace where you are. You have choices of course- plan on a more revolving door nanny arrangement and have back ups in place to weather the transitions; hire two nannies at a part time level so you have built-in backup (though you might have to pay more). Hire additional/cheaper help - a mommy's helper for after school with the kids for instance.
Or, do a search w/ a higher rate and see if it yields a stronger candidate pool.
Honestly, it sounds like you know the answer and you just don't like it. If you want better than middle of the road capabilities and tenure, then you need to pay better than middle of the road rates.
And I don't think 4 kids is typical - I think this is a job that skews to the more demanding/challenging positions - but I'll let the nannies here speak to that.
Even though the nanny doesn't have 4 kids to manage all day long, that is a significant number of kids even for a couple of hours, and with a significant age range and scope of responsibilities. It sounds pretty challenging to me to manage homework, snacks, infant care, and preschooler entertainment simultaneously every day for several hours. (I consider 3 several.) If the nanny is expected to leave the house in a clean and orderly state when she leaves (as mine is) that's also tricky to ensure when her peak craziness is at the end of the day.
It may not be an "insanely heavy workload" but it certainly isn't an easy job you're describing.
It honestly sounds pretty exhausting to me. If you know you're paying middle of the road rates, then so do your nannies and the reality for them is that they can make equal money (or better) for less work. They're getting great experience in managing multiple kids across age ranges and needs, but they can beat the money pretty easily.
So basically it sounds like you're running into the realities of the marketplace where you are. You have choices of course- plan on a more revolving door nanny arrangement and have back ups in place to weather the transitions; hire two nannies at a part time level so you have built-in backup (though you might have to pay more). Hire additional/cheaper help - a mommy's helper for after school with the kids for instance.
Or, do a search w/ a higher rate and see if it yields a stronger candidate pool.
Honestly, it sounds like you know the answer and you just don't like it. If you want better than middle of the road capabilities and tenure, then you need to pay better than middle of the road rates.
And I don't think 4 kids is typical - I think this is a job that skews to the more demanding/challenging positions - but I'll let the nannies here speak to that.
Anonymous
09/11/2013 22:17
Subject: Finding a nanny for 4 kids
We are having a hard time finding a nanny for our four kids, and I come here to seek advice from others who have successfully done so (or nannies who have worked in similar situations). Our situation is this: two school aged kids, 7 and 5, full day school. One 3 year old, part day preschool 2x/wk. One 1 year old, at home. Nanny works from about 8-5:30/6. School aged kids get home at 3:00, so she's responsible for them for 2.5-3 hrs of after school time. No significant cleaning tasks or anything, other than kids laundry and keeping up with kids toys (directing older kids, assisting younger kids). No dinner prep, etc. - just feed them an after school snack, maybe oversee some very limited homework, and let them play.
We are finding that it's just about impossible to find a good nanny who can handle this set of kids and won't flake out on us. We're paying pretty middle of the road rates - definitely not low, but also not premium wages. I am reluctant to pay a premium wage when half the kids are gone for the majority of the day. The nanny currently has about 1.5-2 hours in the morning of complete quiet (youngest napping, 3 yr old at preschool), and a good 2.5 hours in the afternoon of quiet time (both younger kids napping). This doesn't seem like an insanely heavy workload to me, but maybe I'm underestimating.
Our problem seems to be attracting decent candidates who are confident enough to handle four kids, including the short term burst of energy that comes through the door at the end of the school day. Many are fine with two kids, or three, but the idea of four seems to scare them off before they even give it a chance.
Help me out here - what to do? Suggestions other than "throw money at the problem" would be helpful.
We are finding that it's just about impossible to find a good nanny who can handle this set of kids and won't flake out on us. We're paying pretty middle of the road rates - definitely not low, but also not premium wages. I am reluctant to pay a premium wage when half the kids are gone for the majority of the day. The nanny currently has about 1.5-2 hours in the morning of complete quiet (youngest napping, 3 yr old at preschool), and a good 2.5 hours in the afternoon of quiet time (both younger kids napping). This doesn't seem like an insanely heavy workload to me, but maybe I'm underestimating.
Our problem seems to be attracting decent candidates who are confident enough to handle four kids, including the short term burst of energy that comes through the door at the end of the school day. Many are fine with two kids, or three, but the idea of four seems to scare them off before they even give it a chance.
Help me out here - what to do? Suggestions other than "throw money at the problem" would be helpful.