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Anonymous wrote:Nannydeb, you seem to think 20 years of experience doing laundry, wiping things, making meals, and being able function on a schedule makes you worth so very much more. Frankly, there's by much of a value add after two or so years of experience, as long as the nanny has basic common sense.
OP has a nanny with minimal skills. She seems to NEED one with the skills to actually do more than keep her kids alive. That means she'll have to pay more.
And if you think all it takes to care for kids 10+ hours a day is what's in your little list, you obviously have no kids, and never spend any time with kids. There's a little more to it than wiping things, and the best nannies keep up with changes in the field, thereby giving them value added knowledge and experience.
How can you tell if your nanny stays educated? She doesn't ask why you put your baby to sleep on it's back, why it's not OK to let your toddler watch TV for 6 hours a day, and why your 2 year old is still using a rear-facing car seat. In fact, she might tell you some info you don't know about raising your child(ren)!
I do wish OP would come back and give us a full job description as well as say what she pays and her general location.
PP, do you blindly follow ALL the rules found in the bible? For example, you don't eat (or even touch) pork, right? Because all that cloven-hoved uncleanliness is BAD!
In any case, I thought you might need these rules, so that you follow everything exactly to the letter and don't get on God's bad side.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/07/13-things-the-bible-forbids_n_1327701.html
In any case, I thought you might need these rules, so that you follow everything exactly to the letter and don't get on God's bad side.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/07/13-things-the-bible-forbids_n_1327701.html
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:12:10, live in nannies stlll have to be paid for all hours worked at straight time.
+1
Sorry if you thought I was implying that OP didn't have to pay her nanny for all hours worked. That wasn't at all what I was saying.
I AM saying that unless OP and nanny live in certain specific areas of the US, OT pay is not needed. Naturally, nanny must be paid straight time for all hours worked. I am also saying that OP needs to check and see if she is obligated to pay OT. If not, maybe that would be enough of a savings to her so that she didn't feel she needed to cut hours so drastically.
Re-reading, several things caught my attention, but mainly, OP, unless you are in certain specific areas of the US, a live IN nanny is not entitled to be paid OT.
Check the local, state, and federal laws and if OT is not something you have to do take that into consideration when you decide what your next move is.
Check the local, state, and federal laws and if OT is not something you have to do take that into consideration when you decide what your next move is.
OP, what about school breaks and summertime? will you need her for full days then, or will you only need her for 9 hours a day (9 - 6 or 8 - 5) when your kids don't have school?
If you know you will NEVER need her for more than 9 hours a day, then you can go to step 2, which is sitting down and discussing your needs with her and determining a fair wage for her new hours.
You will want to address with her the chance she will find other jobs to cover her "break time", and then you will have to figure out how you will cover those hours when you do need childcare between 9:30 and 2:30. Because if she has secured a second job, she won't ever be able to work between 9:30 and 2:30 for you again.
If you anticipate needing her to work those 5 hours during summer or holiday breaks, I think your best option would be to have a discussion with your nanny about paying her a little less overall, and expecting her to be "on call" for times when your kids don't have school. IOW, ask that she keep her schedule open when you know she'll be needed, and not find a second job. You could also ask that she start doing things to help around the house, if she isn't already: kid laundry, family groceries, errands, etc. are all reasonable requests to make of a nanny, especially once all her charges are in school.
To sum up, if you cut her hours by 20, taking virtually all OT away, she may choose to move on, and you may have issues finding a replacement willing to work that split shift. But if you cut her hours by 10, and offer her a stipend to be "on-call" you can still save a little money, have nanny do some additional work around the house, and have coverage when needed.
If you know you will NEVER need her for more than 9 hours a day, then you can go to step 2, which is sitting down and discussing your needs with her and determining a fair wage for her new hours.
You will want to address with her the chance she will find other jobs to cover her "break time", and then you will have to figure out how you will cover those hours when you do need childcare between 9:30 and 2:30. Because if she has secured a second job, she won't ever be able to work between 9:30 and 2:30 for you again.
If you anticipate needing her to work those 5 hours during summer or holiday breaks, I think your best option would be to have a discussion with your nanny about paying her a little less overall, and expecting her to be "on call" for times when your kids don't have school. IOW, ask that she keep her schedule open when you know she'll be needed, and not find a second job. You could also ask that she start doing things to help around the house, if she isn't already: kid laundry, family groceries, errands, etc. are all reasonable requests to make of a nanny, especially once all her charges are in school.
To sum up, if you cut her hours by 20, taking virtually all OT away, she may choose to move on, and you may have issues finding a replacement willing to work that split shift. But if you cut her hours by 10, and offer her a stipend to be "on-call" you can still save a little money, have nanny do some additional work around the house, and have coverage when needed.
When I think about being micromanaged, I am not thinking of big deal stuff like sleep (CIO or no CIO), nutrition (have the kids try new foods vs. just give them the stuff they already eat), play, etc.
I am thinking about bosses who insist that the way they fold baby laundry is the ONLY way it can be done, or that the ONLY acceptable play date is one where all kids have one identically aged playmate, or that their way of cutting up an apple is the ONLY way to do that particular bit of food prep.
I can calmly and professionally discuss your wishes and goals WRT any child development topic out there, while offering my thoughts and opinions, but you need to be open to at least hearing what I am saying.
But if a boss starts whining about how I folded little Mabel and Horace's towels, I may be less than accepting of that issue.
I am thinking about bosses who insist that the way they fold baby laundry is the ONLY way it can be done, or that the ONLY acceptable play date is one where all kids have one identically aged playmate, or that their way of cutting up an apple is the ONLY way to do that particular bit of food prep.
I can calmly and professionally discuss your wishes and goals WRT any child development topic out there, while offering my thoughts and opinions, but you need to be open to at least hearing what I am saying.
But if a boss starts whining about how I folded little Mabel and Horace's towels, I may be less than accepting of that issue.
OP, if your potential share partners are already trying to cut expenses by letting nanny go early, you may want to talk extensively with them about the concept of guaranteed hours, how vacations will be handled, and other issues that wouold have financial implications for the nanny you and your share partners hire.
You rally need to be on the same page as the other family in almost every way to have a share work long-term, and if there are already pay issues cropping up, you may have a problem.
I hope you can work everything out and then find a terrific nanny!
You rally need to be on the same page as the other family in almost every way to have a share work long-term, and if there are already pay issues cropping up, you may have a problem.
I hope you can work everything out and then find a terrific nanny!
Anonymous wrote:So $1400 for how many hours?.
50 hours/week x 4.3 weeks a month = 55 hours of straight time x 4.3 weeks = 236.5 hours
1400/236.5 = $5.92/hour for 2 kids
Even ith another 2 child family matching the $1400/month, that nanny would be ridiculously underpaid - 4 kids for less than $12/hour.
OP, not knowing what your job description is, or where you live, it's hard to guess what you mean by middle of the road wages. I'm guessing you pay $16/hour or less though, if you aren't attracting competent, professional nannies who can handle the job you want done. It sounds like whatever you pay, you are only attracting people who can keep your kids alive each day.
Let me tell you what I would do for you, assuming your needs match the questions I asked you last week that are quoted below.
Arrive at 8, make breakfast for whoever needs to eat, clear/clean dishes off table and load dishwasher. Get younger 2 ready for the day. Toss load of laundry in before we leave for the daily outing or preschool drop off. Go to activity (music/gymnastics/library/playground) or stay home to accommodate 1 yo nap. While 1 yo naps, transfer laundry to dryer, start second load if needed. Learning activity with 3 yo. Prep lunch for 3 and 1. Have a little "free play" time with 3 and 1 after 1 wakes up, preferably outside. Change diapers/help with toileting as needed. Lunchtime, then dishes cleaned up, and time to clean up toys before naps. Get both kids down for nap, then sweep floors as needed, do snack and dinner prep, fold laundry/shift loads, then take a break while waiting for older kids to get home. When 7 and 5 arrive, give them snack, wake 3 and 1 for snack as well, then everyone outside for 30 minutes before starting homework. Supervise homework, keep 3 and 1 occupied. Take out any trash, load any dishes in dishwasher, keep kids focused on their homework/play. At 5, everyone joins in to tidy up the house before you get home, and I make sure dinner prep is set for you to finish as needed. Once everything in the house is done, head outside to play until you arrive home.
I'd charge you between $24 - $27/hour plus OT. I have 20 years of experience, I am fully capable of doing what needs to be done as it needs doing, and I will return your kids and house to you in good shape at the end of the day.
If you can't afford a great nanny for 4, you might want to consider having your older 2 stay in extended care after school. If I was managing just 2 kids for you, I would charge $20 - $23, depending on how much laundry was the norm and how much other stuff you wanted done.
Let me tell you what I would do for you, assuming your needs match the questions I asked you last week that are quoted below.
Arrive at 8, make breakfast for whoever needs to eat, clear/clean dishes off table and load dishwasher. Get younger 2 ready for the day. Toss load of laundry in before we leave for the daily outing or preschool drop off. Go to activity (music/gymnastics/library/playground) or stay home to accommodate 1 yo nap. While 1 yo naps, transfer laundry to dryer, start second load if needed. Learning activity with 3 yo. Prep lunch for 3 and 1. Have a little "free play" time with 3 and 1 after 1 wakes up, preferably outside. Change diapers/help with toileting as needed. Lunchtime, then dishes cleaned up, and time to clean up toys before naps. Get both kids down for nap, then sweep floors as needed, do snack and dinner prep, fold laundry/shift loads, then take a break while waiting for older kids to get home. When 7 and 5 arrive, give them snack, wake 3 and 1 for snack as well, then everyone outside for 30 minutes before starting homework. Supervise homework, keep 3 and 1 occupied. Take out any trash, load any dishes in dishwasher, keep kids focused on their homework/play. At 5, everyone joins in to tidy up the house before you get home, and I make sure dinner prep is set for you to finish as needed. Once everything in the house is done, head outside to play until you arrive home.
I'd charge you between $24 - $27/hour plus OT. I have 20 years of experience, I am fully capable of doing what needs to be done as it needs doing, and I will return your kids and house to you in good shape at the end of the day.
If you can't afford a great nanny for 4, you might want to consider having your older 2 stay in extended care after school. If I was managing just 2 kids for you, I would charge $20 - $23, depending on how much laundry was the norm and how much other stuff you wanted done.
nannydebsays wrote:Anonymous wrote:We are having a hard time finding a nanny for our four kids, and I come here to seek advice from others who have successfully done so (or nannies who have worked in similar situations). Our situation is this: two school aged kids, 7 and 5, full day school. One 3 year old, part day preschool 2x/wk. One 1 year old, at home. Nanny works from about 8-5:30/6. School aged kids get home at 3:00, so she's responsible for them for 2.5-3 hrs of after school time. No significant cleaning tasks or anything, other than kids laundry and keeping up with kids toys (directing older kids, assisting younger kids). No dinner prep, etc. - just feed them an after school snack, maybe oversee some very limited homework, and let them play.
We are finding that it's just about impossible to find a good nanny who can handle this set of kids and won't flake out on us. We're paying pretty middle of the road rates - definitely not low, but also not premium wages. I am reluctant to pay a premium wage when half the kids are gone for the majority of the day. The nanny currently has about 1.5-2 hours in the morning of complete quiet (youngest napping, 3 yr old at preschool), and a good 2.5 hours in the afternoon of quiet time (both younger kids napping). This doesn't seem like an insanely heavy workload to me, but maybe I'm underestimating.
Our problem seems to be attracting decent candidates who are confident enough to handle four kids, including the short term burst of energy that comes through the door at the end of the school day. Many are fine with two kids, or three, but the idea of four seems to scare them off before they even give it a chance.
Help me out here - what to do? Suggestions other than "throw money at the problem" would be helpful.
So, other than laundry for 4 kids (6+ loads a week, I would guess, more if she also washes their linens.) and "toy management" (tidying and supervising on a daily basis, with 2 reluctant-to-clean-up-kids under 4 and 2 over-wrought-from-school-kids ages 5 and 7), what else do you expect from your nanny in the way of light housework? Does she serve your kids the meals/snacks you made the day before, or does she have to make meals and snacks? Does she leave the dishes they use in the sink or on the table, or do you expect her to clean up after meals? Do you expect her to make any beds? Is she expected to deal with the dishwasher at all? What about keeping the floors clean? Do you expect her to empty diaper genies and household trash? Are there any family pets she is expected to care for? Does she have to drive any kids anywhere for school or other activities? Do you expect her to grocery shop or run any errands?
What are nanny's hours? What benefits do you offer? How do you show her your appreciation for a job well done? What expectations do you have of her regarding your children's emotional, physical, psychological and social development? What do you ask of her when it comes to their education?
I'll return to offer advice later. I hope you'll have responded to the questions above so that I can tailor my thoughts to your actual job description and needs!
Anonymous wrote:So I family that I've known for a while contacted me and want to offer me a nanny position. They asked me how much I would charge and I'm not sure what I fair price to quote them is. I would be working an average of 15 hours a week so I figured I would change them $200 dollars a week, but the thing is mom is in the medical field and dad would be out of the country a year and they want me to include about include a few overnights a month in my rate. This would be a set rate whether they use the overnight time or not. I'm clueless on how much I should quote them. I would to give them a fair price but not make it seem like im overcharging them. Can anyone help me out???
You need to determine, and write out specifically in a work agreement, what exactly they mean by "overnights" How many per month? What would those hours be?
Let's say that your normal hours will be 3p - 6p M - F, and you want to charge $13/hour, or $195/week. The employers want 1 overnight per week. That means staying past your regular end time and working into the next morning, or, coming in on a weekend night.
For week night overnights, if the child goes to bed at 9pm, and you spend some time prepping for the morning and finishing anything up that needs doing for the evening, you will work from 6 - 10. Then calculate your overnight rate from 10p - 1 hour before you have to get the child up, say 5a. Then charge your regular rate from 5a - the time you have dropped the child off for the school day/or been relieved by the parents, say 8a. That means an "overnight" includes 7 additional hours at $13/hour plus $50 for sleeping hours.
Therefore, if they want "overnights" during the week every week, they will need to pay you $13/hour x 22 hours, plus $50, or $336/week.
If they want the occasional weekend overnight, you simply add any additional hours to that weeks paycheck.
Don't sell yourself short on overnights. If they truly want and need that they need to pay what your time is worth.
Anonymous wrote:We are having a hard time finding a nanny for our four kids, and I come here to seek advice from others who have successfully done so (or nannies who have worked in similar situations). Our situation is this: two school aged kids, 7 and 5, full day school. One 3 year old, part day preschool 2x/wk. One 1 year old, at home. Nanny works from about 8-5:30/6. School aged kids get home at 3:00, so she's responsible for them for 2.5-3 hrs of after school time. No significant cleaning tasks or anything, other than kids laundry and keeping up with kids toys (directing older kids, assisting younger kids). No dinner prep, etc. - just feed them an after school snack, maybe oversee some very limited homework, and let them play.
We are finding that it's just about impossible to find a good nanny who can handle this set of kids and won't flake out on us. We're paying pretty middle of the road rates - definitely not low, but also not premium wages. I am reluctant to pay a premium wage when half the kids are gone for the majority of the day. The nanny currently has about 1.5-2 hours in the morning of complete quiet (youngest napping, 3 yr old at preschool), and a good 2.5 hours in the afternoon of quiet time (both younger kids napping). This doesn't seem like an insanely heavy workload to me, but maybe I'm underestimating.
Our problem seems to be attracting decent candidates who are confident enough to handle four kids, including the short term burst of energy that comes through the door at the end of the school day. Many are fine with two kids, or three, but the idea of four seems to scare them off before they even give it a chance.
Help me out here - what to do? Suggestions other than "throw money at the problem" would be helpful.
So, other than laundry for 4 kids (6+ loads a week, I would guess, more if she also washes their linens.) and "toy management" (tidying and supervising on a daily basis, with 2 reluctant-to-clean-up-kids under 4 and 2 over-wrought-from-school-kids ages 5 and 7), what else do you expect from your nanny in the way of light housework? Does she serve your kids the meals/snacks you made the day before, or does she have to make meals and snacks? Does she leave the dishes they use in the sink or on the table, or do you expect her to clean up after meals? Do you expect her to make any beds? Is she expected to deal with the dishwasher at all? What about keeping the floors clean? Do you expect her to empty diaper genies and household trash? Are there any family pets she is expected to care for? Does she have to drive any kids anywhere for school or other activities? Do you expect her to grocery shop or run any errands?
What are nanny's hours? What benefits do you offer? How do you show her your appreciation for a job well done? What expectations do you have of her regarding your children's emotional, physical, psychological and social development? What do you ask of her when it comes to their education?
I'll return to offer advice later. I hope you'll have responded to the questions above so that I can tailor my thoughts to your actual job description and needs!
Anonymous wrote:OP here: thank you both. Yes, that makes sense. WE have a total package we offer. But seems like all the nannies on this board complain about the low wages (15-20!!) plus all the benefits. Yet, i'm trying to think of another job where you can watch tv for 2-3 hours of your day and get paid to do it.
I'm glad I'm being reasonable.
OP, if the above is the attitude you are bringing to the table as you search for a nanny, I think you might want to reflect a bit on how to feel more positive about your choice to hire a nanny, and on how to feel better about what your nanny will be doing for you each and every day. If you go into a nanny search with a negative attitude, many excellent nannies will sense your issues, and will choose to avoid the job you are trying to fill.
Here's one way to re-frame your thought process:
"I am excited to be seeking a nanny! I have decided what sort of benefits and salary I can afford to offer, and I am willing to be flexible in the salary aspect by cutting back on benefits such as paid health insurance if the nanny I want to hire is asking for more per hour than I can afford and isn't interested in that insurance benefit.
I will also be interested to see what candidates tell me they plan to do during nap time. I recognize that caring for children 10+ hours a day is mentally and physically challenging for everyone, and I want my chosen nanny to be comfortable taking a break during nap time if all her daily tasks have been done. I need to remember that a rested nanny can provide the attention and love my child needs during the time my child is awake!"
Also, write a job description, and choose what is essential, negotiable, and not that important from that list. Then, if the absolutely perfect candidate appears and says I would prefer not to do X from your "not that important" list, you won't risk losing a great nanny because you are stuck on that not-that-important task. Then determine your nanny budget, including all benefits, and start your search with a positive attitude!
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is why the increment can start at $5. Care.com has covered their bases.
http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/youthlabor/wages.htm
The job is 6am to 8pm. That's more than full time. They are obviously not looking for a "casual" babysitter, as defined by the law. I'd hate to know which laws you think aren't for you.
Reading comprehension must not be your strong suit. I posted the link as a justification to why care.com can start the pay increments at $5. I said nothing about the original post's details. Obviously in that case it would be illegal. If a parent were looking to say, hire a 15 year old for an evening of babysitting, they would be well within the rights to pay $5/hr, hence the website providing that option. It may not be ethical, but it is legal.
The simple fact is that Care is indifferent to what people are paid. Care gets their $$ from the job providers, not the job seekers in most cases, so that's why care won't make what seems like a simple change to the available wages that a job provider can choose, replacing $5/hour with "Legal Minimum Wage"/hour.
I would guess that anyone willing to work for $70/day caring for a child is not intelligent enough to provide decent care. Or that person is willing to be paid crap in order to have access to a child or children, which is even worse.
Anonymous wrote:Live-in job. Split schedule (paid for morning routine and afternoon routine, have school hours off). 30 hrs per week; 25 with kids and 5 doing errands and cooking. Kids laundry, weekly grocery shopping, family dinners 5 nights a week, kid-related housekeeping. Two kids, both preschool-aged. Drive using my car with reimbursment of $40 per week (more than I will spend on gas). Live-in with room, board, and two week vacation (one of their choosing, one of mine) and 5 days sick leave. Pay is $900 per month.
Well, 30 hours/week x 4.3 week per month is 129 hours a month, so you'd be paying her $6.98/hour, which is less than minimum wage.
And I am not getting into the "room and board" mess, because if you actually value it, you wind up with IRS insanity. And being a LI isn't that great of a benefit if you don't earn enough to pay your other bills.
You might find a person who has little to no nanny experience (like a daycare worker looking for a place to live and wanting to work fewer hours) to take this job, but I doubt any knowledgeable and experienced nanny would apply to be a nanny/errand runner/cook for less than minimum wage. $10/hour without messing with room and board calculations, or $15/hour with a 40% R&B deduction might net you better applicants.
If you can up the amount of money you can afford to cover an au pair, you might try that route. If you can't afford that (about 25K/year including placement fees and other costs), you need to be prepared to have a lot of turnover, since the novices you hire will look to move on as soon as they realize they're making so much less than their peers.
Good luck!
Anonymous wrote:I am the OP. We are agnostic, so we are choosing Thanksgiving or Christmas because we have time off. And as for having only ONE kid, well, my ONE toddler stills requires supervision every waking moment, which means that DH and I would have to take turns watching the baby the entire day and then try to sneak in a few hours of couple time during naps/after bedtime, without leaving the room. Or we could have nanny get up with baby while we get everything packed for the beach and we can spend the morning enjoying the beach as a family, and nanny can put DC down for a nap and wait around the hotel while we go swimming, snorkeling, whatever, then we can meet up for dinner together, put the baby to bed and DH and I can go out to dinner while nanny hangs at the hotel in case the baby wakes.
Why not just leave my baby at home? Because I look forward to spending the entire morning and most of the afternoon/evening with my whole family, even if I want to be able to leave the hotel during nap/after bed.
OP, will nanny have time to herself to do what she wants after she gets baby ready in the AM and after baby's PM nap? If so, that sounds fairly reasonable.
Also, will nanny have her own room? If so, that also sounds reasonable with your plans. She can return to her room after you and DH return from dinner and you will be with your baby while sleeping.
If nanny shares a room with baby, and if you expect her to come and help you at the beach or wherever, you will be expecting her to work 24 hours days. That's...a lot of overtime, isn't it?
Many nannies I know who have agreed to that sort of 24/7 work during their employers vacation got really burned out really fast, as in within 3 days. And they didn't feel very well compensated, and they never ever agreed to go on a NF trip again, figuring they would again be expected to work 24/7.
I'd suggest you find a way for nanny to have her own room, even if that means you/DH/baby share a suite and nanny has a separate room in the hotel, or that you rent a 3 bedroom3 bath condo or whatever. I would also suggest that you plan out the schedule with nanny in advance, showing her when she will be working and hen she'll be off on her own. You will also want to discuss additional compensation with her, because what she feels is fair for this may not be anywhere near what you think is OK.
As an example, if I were your nanny, and I was doing 24/7 with baby sleeping in my space, I would expect my regular paycheck for every day worked (let's say $180 for a 10 hour day($15/hr plus ot), plus OT (at $22.50/hour for 6 hours) for every hour after that. I would be willing to accept a rate of $100 for 8 hours out of 24 that would be "sleeping hours" if and only if your baby actually slept through those 8 hours without waking me. That means, without any downtime for me where I would be free to leave the hotel alone, I would be expecting $415 per 24 hour period minimum, including travel time.
Just food for thought. Good Luck!
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