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Days off don't matter here, IMO. They want a weekly rate, give them just that. I wouldn't go lower that $1200 as your start point, and in negotiations, I wouldn't accept less than $1000. Frankly, less than minimum wage for 16 hours a day for 14 days is less than what you should get - OT ought to be factored in as well.
OP, before you agree to anything, get all of your questions answered. If you'll be caring for additional children, ASK how those parents will be paying you. (I'd go with $5 extra per hour per kid minimum.) Where will you be sleeping? What SPECIFIC days/times will you be off? What means of transportation will you have to use when off the clock? Make sure all your needs are paid for at all times. You shouldn't spend a single dime for your needs. If you "want" something out of the ordinary, it's on your bill though.
If they won't answer questions, then you CAN NOT give them a weekly rate. Period. Tell them you must know the details, take notes, and type up an initial agreement outlining all the info for you all to sign that includes the price you have set.
Then a month before you go on your work trip, take the agreement back out, go back over it, and make sure everything is the same. If they have made changes that will add to your workload, increase your price. Type up a new form, label it "Work Agreement for the week of X - X" and have it signed by all of you. (Add a clause that any change to the agreement will need your approval and will add to the fee you are paid.)
Then take the agreement with you on the trip, and stick to it. If you don't stick to it, you will wind up angry and burned out from working 24/7 caring for every kid birthed by any of their friends who come along.
So, basically, don't take less money than you'll be happy with if it all goes south and you end up working round the clock and caring for numerous kids. Only you know what that number is!
OP, before you agree to anything, get all of your questions answered. If you'll be caring for additional children, ASK how those parents will be paying you. (I'd go with $5 extra per hour per kid minimum.) Where will you be sleeping? What SPECIFIC days/times will you be off? What means of transportation will you have to use when off the clock? Make sure all your needs are paid for at all times. You shouldn't spend a single dime for your needs. If you "want" something out of the ordinary, it's on your bill though.
If they won't answer questions, then you CAN NOT give them a weekly rate. Period. Tell them you must know the details, take notes, and type up an initial agreement outlining all the info for you all to sign that includes the price you have set.
Then a month before you go on your work trip, take the agreement back out, go back over it, and make sure everything is the same. If they have made changes that will add to your workload, increase your price. Type up a new form, label it "Work Agreement for the week of X - X" and have it signed by all of you. (Add a clause that any change to the agreement will need your approval and will add to the fee you are paid.)
Then take the agreement with you on the trip, and stick to it. If you don't stick to it, you will wind up angry and burned out from working 24/7 caring for every kid birthed by any of their friends who come along.
So, basically, don't take less money than you'll be happy with if it all goes south and you end up working round the clock and caring for numerous kids. Only you know what that number is!
This is informal daycare. I wouldn't expect to have a parent telling me what I could and couldn't do in my home as I cared for their child and mine.
I would expect to run the show, and I would also generally try to work with her child's schedule, but I'd take both kids to the park and baby could sleep in the stroller, just like a second- or third-born would do.
That said, I would also expect to be paid minimum wage, or a daily minimum for a maximum number of hours a day, and I would expect the mom to pay me 52 weeks a year.
I would expect to run the show, and I would also generally try to work with her child's schedule, but I'd take both kids to the park and baby could sleep in the stroller, just like a second- or third-born would do.
That said, I would also expect to be paid minimum wage, or a daily minimum for a maximum number of hours a day, and I would expect the mom to pay me 52 weeks a year.
You need to charge enough to make you feel well rewarded for your time. If you WANT to do this, be sure you won't resent it afterwards.
Without knowing how many kids or their ages (or your location), I would look at a 24 hour rate somewhere between $250 (one kid, older, attends school so down time for you, sleeps through) and $450+ (multiple kids, younger, litttle or no school attendance, don't sleep through the night) and go from there. Start a bit high so you can negotiate down if needed.
Flat out minimum I would accept is minimum wage x 24 x 14, or $2436 for the entire time. And that's for one kid, or two kids who attend school at least half days.
Without knowing how many kids or their ages (or your location), I would look at a 24 hour rate somewhere between $250 (one kid, older, attends school so down time for you, sleeps through) and $450+ (multiple kids, younger, litttle or no school attendance, don't sleep through the night) and go from there. Start a bit high so you can negotiate down if needed.
Flat out minimum I would accept is minimum wage x 24 x 14, or $2436 for the entire time. And that's for one kid, or two kids who attend school at least half days.
This is the kind of situation in which I would suggest first seeking out SAHP's of your daughter's classmates and trying to arrange a situation in which you and the other parent can trade care on a regular basis. You might feel the need to pay a small amount to the other parent if you don't take the same number of hours for them each week, but some sort of co-op set-up seems best for your wallet if you can manage it.
Next possibility is to find a working parent with a nanny who is willing to ask her nanny to consider adding your child to her day.
In either of the above situations, you would need to take your child to the home of the person (or work place of the nanny) who would be providing the care.
Another option is to seek out an active retired woman who would act as a "granny nanny" for you - that person might actively be seeking a small additional income to supplement her retirement, and might also have the flexibility you need.
Another possibility is a network of local college students to cover all the hours you'd need. Your job isn't sufficient for sole income, but sharing the duties out might provide you with enough coverage for emergencies.
If none of those possibilities work out, then I'd look at the AP program and try to find a way to manage without an AP car - seek out carpools, etc.
One thing you need to do before you start seeking people out is to set up a sample schedule for a month or two. Make note of days off and the school's inclement weather policy. Show any and all candidates your 2 month calendar and then talk about whether they can cover not only those hours, but the occasional sick day.
Also, will your child be in school through the entire summer? If so, you'd just keep up whatever arrangement you made now. If not, you'll be looking at a lot more hours, and you'll need to mention that.
Cost? You need to determine the maximum you can afford to pay, and what you'd prefer to pay. Then seek out solutions within your budget range. Be up front with the financials of the job(s), and since you aren't seeking out a nanny who would expect a pro level salary, you should manage to find candidates in whatever situation you choose to use.
Good luck!
Next possibility is to find a working parent with a nanny who is willing to ask her nanny to consider adding your child to her day.
In either of the above situations, you would need to take your child to the home of the person (or work place of the nanny) who would be providing the care.
Another option is to seek out an active retired woman who would act as a "granny nanny" for you - that person might actively be seeking a small additional income to supplement her retirement, and might also have the flexibility you need.
Another possibility is a network of local college students to cover all the hours you'd need. Your job isn't sufficient for sole income, but sharing the duties out might provide you with enough coverage for emergencies.
If none of those possibilities work out, then I'd look at the AP program and try to find a way to manage without an AP car - seek out carpools, etc.
One thing you need to do before you start seeking people out is to set up a sample schedule for a month or two. Make note of days off and the school's inclement weather policy. Show any and all candidates your 2 month calendar and then talk about whether they can cover not only those hours, but the occasional sick day.
Also, will your child be in school through the entire summer? If so, you'd just keep up whatever arrangement you made now. If not, you'll be looking at a lot more hours, and you'll need to mention that.
Cost? You need to determine the maximum you can afford to pay, and what you'd prefer to pay. Then seek out solutions within your budget range. Be up front with the financials of the job(s), and since you aren't seeking out a nanny who would expect a pro level salary, you should manage to find candidates in whatever situation you choose to use.
Good luck!
Anonymous wrote:nannydebsays wrote:I'd stick with $12/hour for the overnight nanny. You're seeking 48 hours of care, and $12/hour is a gross paycheck of $624.
Now, depending on your location, the night nanny might need to work a second job, but if she will truly be sleeping through most nights, I don't think that would be too difficult to do.
I don't think anyone good/reliable would do this for $12/hour, even with OT. It's not a live-in job. I'd say $15 is fair.
If the nanny is truly sleeping through the night (i.e., the 3-year-old sleeps through the night, as OP said), yes, I'd gladly be paid $12/hour plus OT to sleep. Nobody is paying me to sleep now, so I'd be making about $500/net per week in addition to my day job. That's an extra 26K a year, or, as I like to think of it, a great start at a new vehicle or a new house.
OP, as someone who struggled through unpaid "maternity leave" in my first job, when I didn't know any better, you need to seriously evaluate whether your budget can handle paying for nanny care. If you can't afford to pay her for your maternity leave, you can't afford to pay her to care for both your kids.
Nannies are the most expensive form of childcare. Even a shared nanny is, at the least, minimally more costly than daycare.
If you cannot pay your nanny AT LEAST what you would pay for daycare, tell her so, and let her find another family for the share.
That would be about $3300/month, according to your example.
Nannies are the most expensive form of childcare. Even a shared nanny is, at the least, minimally more costly than daycare.
If you cannot pay your nanny AT LEAST what you would pay for daycare, tell her so, and let her find another family for the share.
That would be about $3300/month, according to your example.
I'd stick with $12/hour for the overnight nanny. You're seeking 48 hours of care, and $12/hour is a gross paycheck of $624.
Now, depending on your location, the night nanny might need to work a second job, but if she will truly be sleeping through most nights, I don't think that would be too difficult to do.
Now, depending on your location, the night nanny might need to work a second job, but if she will truly be sleeping through most nights, I don't think that would be too difficult to do.
Anonymous wrote:Thanks. Just seems weird to me since I often get Child A when if Child A wakes up when she is playing with Child B, which makes me feel like I am responsible for one of them even when she is here. If that's market though, I'll address the responsibility aspect as opposed to the pay aspect with her. Appreciate the quick responses.
If you feel that way, you can take action to change the way you manage your sitter and your time. It sounds as if you make the conscious choice to get child A. Does the sitter refuse to do that? Or is she incapable of doing it? If she is ready, willing, and able to do her job, you need to choose whether to get out of her way and let her do the work you are paying her to do, or to continue to act as her unofficial "assistant".
If you want that sleepy kid cuddle time, take it, then pass the child to the sitter and go back to work.
20:19, of course it's perfectly legal. Never said it wasn't.
But a nanny who wants to make $15/hour who is unaware of FLSA laws may be thrilled to get a $15/hour job working 50 hours for $750/week. And her employers may or may not be aware that they are not really paying "Actual OT", which would mean an extra $75/week in gross wages.
Let's say the employer is aware that the contract they wrote indicating a weekly rate of $750 for 50 hours is not exactly correct. Then even if they and nanny sign the contract, the employers are still neglecting to pay actual OT.
What needs to happen is two-fold:
Nannies need to be educated that they either need to establish an hourly rate and then expect/negotiate actual OT based on that hourly rate, or nannies need to state a weekly rate, and KNOW that it will then be broken down to straight and OT rates in the contract.
Employers need to be educated that they MUST, no exceptions, no exemptions (other than those for LI nannies) state their offers in terms of specific hourly and OT rates, equal to $XXX/week.
Why? Because the "average rate" crap causes nothing but confusion since no one is truly aware that an "average rate" means nothing without the specific FLSA breakdown of rates.
Many nannies accept a job offer expecting their hourly PLUS actual OT, and are disappointed and feel "cheated" to learn that they are actually not getting OT based on their hourly rate. That causes a lot of the resentment we see here and on other sites, don't you think?
But a nanny who wants to make $15/hour who is unaware of FLSA laws may be thrilled to get a $15/hour job working 50 hours for $750/week. And her employers may or may not be aware that they are not really paying "Actual OT", which would mean an extra $75/week in gross wages.
Let's say the employer is aware that the contract they wrote indicating a weekly rate of $750 for 50 hours is not exactly correct. Then even if they and nanny sign the contract, the employers are still neglecting to pay actual OT.
What needs to happen is two-fold:
Nannies need to be educated that they either need to establish an hourly rate and then expect/negotiate actual OT based on that hourly rate, or nannies need to state a weekly rate, and KNOW that it will then be broken down to straight and OT rates in the contract.
Employers need to be educated that they MUST, no exceptions, no exemptions (other than those for LI nannies) state their offers in terms of specific hourly and OT rates, equal to $XXX/week.
Why? Because the "average rate" crap causes nothing but confusion since no one is truly aware that an "average rate" means nothing without the specific FLSA breakdown of rates.
Many nannies accept a job offer expecting their hourly PLUS actual OT, and are disappointed and feel "cheated" to learn that they are actually not getting OT based on their hourly rate. That causes a lot of the resentment we see here and on other sites, don't you think?
Anonymous wrote:The only problem with some of the above scenarios/posts are communication and semantics.
If a person gets paid 13.66 per hour and is routinely scheduled to work 50 hrs per week, then they make $13.66 per hour plus applicable overtime pay. This averages to $15 per week.
If an employer advertises in exactly this language -- "Base Pay X, Overtime Hours are Such, Weekly Salary is Y" then there's no problem. Likewise, nannys should be making the same full statement when they cite what they are paid.
All else is shorthand.
The thing is, most household employers have NO CLUE they have to follow OT laws, and so they don't advertise in such specific language. They make the mistake of paying a weekly rate without breaking down straight time/OT, in which case, if the arrangement ends badly, nanny may take her case to a wage and labor board and win tons of back OT pay.
And many many nannies also have NO CLUE they are covered by FLSA. They seek out a weekly ratr that they are happy with, and don't care about OT, since they are earning what they want to earn.
Frankly, most nanny employers cannot/will not pay actual OT. If a magic wand was waved tonight and every nanny in the land suddenly got the OT she has a "right" to earn tomorrow, then Friday there would be a ton of unemployed nannies.
One issue with an AP is that I believe they are limited to working no more than 9 hours per day, which doesn't fit your stated schedule.
A LO will not be easy at all to find - you want to pay no more than $440/week GROSS, and that would mean about $350 net. Paying rent, utilities, food, etc. on less than 18K a year in net income seems pretty impossible to me. IMO, a LO would need to make at least 35K gross to live decently on their own, possibly slightly less if they were married or had a roommate. (I based this on the COL in my area vs. the COL in Maryland, which is 15% higher.)
So, a LI is the answer for you. IDK if a college student would be able to pay tuition on a $10/hour salary, but a recent grad in a child-related field who doesn't have huge debt and wants to get a year of experience in childcare might work for you. The benefits are good, and the only change I would make there is giving your LI free access to everything in the kitchen within certain set house rules, and if she wants to drink pellegrino or eat brie and drink lots of wine that's on her $.
A LO will not be easy at all to find - you want to pay no more than $440/week GROSS, and that would mean about $350 net. Paying rent, utilities, food, etc. on less than 18K a year in net income seems pretty impossible to me. IMO, a LO would need to make at least 35K gross to live decently on their own, possibly slightly less if they were married or had a roommate. (I based this on the COL in my area vs. the COL in Maryland, which is 15% higher.)
So, a LI is the answer for you. IDK if a college student would be able to pay tuition on a $10/hour salary, but a recent grad in a child-related field who doesn't have huge debt and wants to get a year of experience in childcare might work for you. The benefits are good, and the only change I would make there is giving your LI free access to everything in the kitchen within certain set house rules, and if she wants to drink pellegrino or eat brie and drink lots of wine that's on her $.
Anonymous wrote:To round this out, talked further (numbers, hours, responsibilities) with potential MB and the job is truly not a good fit. She is pregnant and due in August- and Dad is looking into taking an out of town job. Clearly not a good fit.
My shift is now to helping her create a good childcare plan. So it would be 5 kiddos- including a newborn, long work hours (12 +) with the return to private practice, and a husband who will be home on the weekends.
Is there any hope for her?
If I were working with her I would suggest she hire 2 nannies who either each work 2.5 days, or who tag team, with one working 7am - 5 pm and one working from 10 am - 8 pm, or one FT nanny 7a - 5p and a PT afternoon nanny who can come in at 3p and work until 8p. Or even hire a nanny for the 3 kids who are in school, and a nanny for the preschooler, toddler and newborn
Why? Because 5 kids for 60+ hours a week for what is, essentially, a single mom is way way too much for most nannies, and she will burn people out, which will mean lots of nanny turnover.
Not knowing her household staffing budget OR her older children's schedules, I would say the ideal situation would be the following:
FT Full Charge Nanny - 7a - 6p M-F - main responsibility is the 3 under 4, but also helps get older 2 to school/cares for them as needed.
PT Household Manager/Housekeeper - 9a - 6p MWF - Cleans house, grocery shops, runs errands, cooks family dinner MWF nights, pitches in with kids as needed
PT Nanny/Tutor - Works M - F from the end time of school for the older 2 until MB returns home, and possibly FT in Summer and on breaks
And yes, that will cost a LOT of money, but a "single mom" with 5 kids needs at least 2 "wives", IMO.
Anonymous wrote:It's obvious that a lot of nannies reply to any question about average pay even though this forum is supposed to be primary for parent-to-parent interaction. I need real, not inflated, feedback on standard pay & benefits. This forum makes it sound like you can't get a nanny for less than $15/hr but I have coworkers who found nannies they're very happy with for not much more than half that - so where can I speak to real employers? I have a lot of things to consider before deciding on an au pair or a nanny and it would be helpful to talk to real honest people about their experiences with employing a nanny. TIA!
We're pretty far out in the burbs and most of the day, the nanny would be responsible for just one child. There would be a couple hours of watching the older sibling after school. We do have the room for an au pair or could offer a room to a live-in nanny if she wanted that, but I think most people want their own space, which is why we're thinking maybe it would make sense to just pay a local person with their own life what we would have paid to the au pair agency + the au pair.
With all the benefits & PTO we'd offer, it certainly would be a better deal than what some one without a degree can normally earn and a less stressful job. We don't need an experienced person but some one with a background that checks out and who is caring - I think that comes naturally or it doesn't. I'd also be fine with the person bringing their kid to work most days so long as we can verify that kid is vaccinated.
I combined your posts (and if they are not both yours OP, please say so!) to give you the most thorough answer I can. I am a nanny outside of the DC area, so you may take my comments however you like. As a disclaimer, I think some people post on here with hugely inflated rates just to chum the waters, so you might want to just ignore those posts.
First, yes, there are people who pay their "nannies" minimum wage or less. They generally pay under the table, and they generally cycle through a nanny every 6 months or so, because once the underpaid nanny realizes she is underpaid, she will choose to leave. There are also people who have been lucky enough to find a good nanny for under $10. Those nannies move on as well, usually once they have been in a job for a year and have an additional reference to use in their next job search. From what I have seen on the AP discussion board here, an AP generally costs more than 25K plus all the expenses of an additional adult in your home. It's not all that cheap, unless you are comparing it to a nanny who genuinely earns $20/hour and $30/hour OT.
Second, unless your older child is in school year round with no holidays or weeks off, you need to take into account the fact that your nanny will, realistically, be responsible for both of your children a good bit of the time. In terms of money, that might mean you pay an additional 50 cents per hour year round to compensate for the times she will have 2 kids. Or, you could add $1 - 2 only during the hours the 2nd child is in her care, but frankly, the math on that gets insane.
Not knowing what benefits or PTO you'd offer, I can only say that unless you are offering fully paid health insurance, plus things like a gym membership, a cell phone, and a car to drive while on duty, as well as significantly more than 3 weeks of PTO. One thing that is not considered a "benefit" is guaranteed pay 52 weeks a year, and OT is not a benefit either.
Based on the following quote, I have written an ad for you. If the type of person you imagine responding to this ad is your perfect nanny personified, feel free to use this ad in your search. Yes, I am making assumptions about the nanny's hours
It certainly would be a better deal than what some one without a degree can normally earn and a less stressful job. We don't need an experienced person but some one with a background that checks out and who is caring - I think that comes naturally or it doesn't. I'd also be fine with the person bringing their kid to work most days so long as we can verify that kid is vaccinated.
Nanny position available for someone looking to earn slightly more than minimum wage in a low stress environment. No degree or experience needed, just a clean background and a caring heart. You'll be looking after 1 child, age 2, except when our older child, age 6, doesn't have school. You'll work 8 am to 6 pm, M - F, and if you have a kid who you can prove has been vaccinated you might be able to bring them with you most days.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:With this many kids nap time is going to important. Since your child is younger, the other children may drop their nap sooner. Make sure that MB agrees that the schedules will respect your child's nap time. This would mean quiet time alone reading for the 2 younger charges and no afternoon activities for the older kids during breaks and summer. They should be able to entertain themselves quietly in their room.
The other thing to consider is whether you are OK watching 3 young children and older kids at a pool? I think you want to agree to no pool time during the summer. The older kids can go with friends but you shouldn't have to take them.
With this many kids, you want to establish a no play date policy. Encourage them to go to play dates at other houses but don't allow any hosting where you have anymore children in the house.
Wow, this is very helpful! Things that I would not have thought of- thanks!
OP, your (apparently) enthusiastic response to the above post was the source of the advice you got about acknowledging that your kid would have to adapt to the nanny kid's schedule, and the challenge on a play date ban.
Some questions for you:
1) When did you last work as a nanny?
2) Have you worked full-time and long-term as a nanny before?
3) How many children did you care for simultaneously as a nanny in the past? How long were those days? How many days a week did you work? How many years ago did you have that job?
In other words, do you have recent current FT nanny experience with 4+ kids? If so, how did you enjoy that job? Can you go back and consider how you would have handled bringing your child to that job?
I'll be completely honest - it sounds like you think this is an easy solution to relieve your stress issues from teaching, and if that's what you think you are REALLY off-base. Bringing your child to work has intrinsic stress factors, trying to nanny FT (50+ hour weeks) is a stressfull, and returning to working as a nanny after time away from the demands of that job will be stressful as well.
Without knowing the dynamics of the family that has asked you to be their nanny, it's virtually impossible to advise you. Do the parents expect you to be "full-charge" or are they looking for someone who will follow directions and established routines? Are they hoping to have you do any household work? If so, what? What hours do they want? Will working those hours allow you to keep a balanced life with your DH and child? Do the older kids need homework help, and if so, how much attention do they need, and can you balance that with 3 kids pre-school age and younger?
OP, avoiding or delaying an annual review meeting is just going to make the issue bigger. You need to be proactive, ask to meet with nanny, be prepared with a formal review sheet and a letter of recommendation, and discuss her job performance.
You are going to need to deliver the "no extra money" talk as a good news/bad news/good news sandwich.
Do not under any circumstances try to justify not offering more money this year as anything other than YOUR fault.
"We loved you so much when we interviewed you that we went above and beyond our budget to afford you. That is a mistake we made, and our mistake means that we cannot afford to give a raise this year. We are so grateful for the job you do and the care you give our little MyKaela, and we hope you will be willing to stay with us under these circumstances."
You are going to need to deliver the "no extra money" talk as a good news/bad news/good news sandwich.
Do not under any circumstances try to justify not offering more money this year as anything other than YOUR fault.
"We loved you so much when we interviewed you that we went above and beyond our budget to afford you. That is a mistake we made, and our mistake means that we cannot afford to give a raise this year. We are so grateful for the job you do and the care you give our little MyKaela, and we hope you will be willing to stay with us under these circumstances."
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