10 hrs/overnights

[Anonymous]

How does the 10 hr rule work for overnights? What exactly is a "day"?

For example, if I schedule from 3pm-12am on Tuesday and 12am-10am on Wednesday, does this still fall within the rule? Or is there a minimum break in between "shifts"? Or do people bend this rule like I proposed because the overnight is "scheduled" time, but everyone's actually sleeping between 9pm-6am?

Might have our first occasion where business trips overlap by a night. DH gone all week, I'd be gone from late afternoon on one day to the evening of the next day (probably 24-28hrs total) mid-week.

[Anonymous]

That would be a lame offer to an AP for an overnight. That would be a 19 hour shift by any definition within 24 hours. We were told 10 hours between shifts by APIA minimum.

You are not going to be able to use APs 45 hours and just move them around for this; you need to pay AP for OT or something or you will have one bitter AP who will either (1) turn you in to agency or (2) complain about about you for the rest of the time with your family.

I would keep her regular schedule and offer her $10 an hour for the overnight, even if you are under the 45 during the school year. If she takes it great, if not find another option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I would keep her regular schedule and offer her $10 an hour for the overnight, even if you are under the 45 during the school year. If she takes it great, if not find another option.

This is, of course, illegal, which might matter to OP.

[Anonymous]

I don't know of an official rule around breaks between shifts -- I would just talk to your Au Pair about it. I personally don't think it's a lame offer at all - assuming your kids go to bed around 8/9 o clock, this is basically only "working" 5/6 hours the first day and then - if the kids get up after 6am - 4 hours the 2nd day. This uses up almost half her hours for the week and she barely has to do anything since the kids are sleeping for most of it. If I were the AP , I would prefer to do a back to back shift and "work" 10 of my 45 hours while the kids were sleeping than work five 9-hour days during the day when the kids are all awake!

[Anonymous]

Technically, the rule calls for 10 hours per day and silent on the number of hours between shifts. What you outlined is technically within rules. However, that is a very long continuous shift and not in the spirit of the program. If your AP is okay with it, you should offer not only the rest of Wed. off but also Thursday off, too, to make up for the super long shift, which again, is technically within the rules but it is a prescription for long term disaster and resentment if you do not acknowledge to the AP that this is highly unusual.

Even though AP is theoretically able to sleep during most of the shift, when you are "on-duty", it is not the same peaceful carefree night sleep as an "off-duty" night, psychologically.

[Anonymous]

I did this due to overlapping work trips. Tuesday - Friday: I left Tuesday at 5pm and returned Friday at 6pm. Kids are generally in school 8:30am - 3pm, but I organized after school activities/play dates so AP didn't have to work again until 5pm each day. I coordinated dinners each night...heat and serve, pizza delivered, etc. Kids go to bed at 8:30pm and wake up at 7am. She was off weekend + Monday before and weekend after. But yes, if you count all sleeping hours, then I exceeded the 10 hour per day rule. 5pm-8:30am, even though AP was sleeping at least 6-7 of those hours each night. AP agreed to it (I offered for neighbor to spend the night, but kind of awkward for everyone) and seemed enthusiastic about it, but ended up throwing it back in my face 5 months later. Honestly, next time I ever need this (the first time it has happened in 3 years of having APs), I will insist neighbor just spends the night. Not worth breaking the rules, even though it appears to be a seemingly fair deal for AP (and she only works 25-30 hours every other week, rarely weekend hours, etc), you never know when their AP friends are going to convince them how mistreated they are and the resentment comes through...even months later!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I did this due to overlapping work trips. Tuesday - Friday: I left Tuesday at 5pm and returned Friday at 6pm. Kids are generally in school 8:30am - 3pm, but I organized after school activities/play dates so AP didn't have to work again until 5pm each day. I coordinated dinners each night...heat and serve, pizza delivered, etc. Kids go to bed at 8:30pm and wake up at 7am. She was off weekend + Monday before and weekend after. But yes, if you count all sleeping hours, then I exceeded the 10 hour per day rule. 5pm-8:30am, even though AP was sleeping at least 6-7 of those hours each night. AP agreed to it (I offered for neighbor to spend the night, but kind of awkward for everyone) and seemed enthusiastic about it, but ended up throwing it back in my face 5 months later. Honestly, next time I ever need this (the first time it has happened in 3 years of having APs), I will insist neighbor just spends the night. Not worth breaking the rules, even though it appears to be a seemingly fair deal for AP (and she only works 25-30 hours every other week, rarely weekend hours, etc), you never know when their AP friends are going to convince them how mistreated they are and the resentment comes through...even months later!

IMO there's a big difference between 3 overnights in a row with more than 10 hours/day and 1 overnight with 2 back to back shifts across 2 days, neither of which exceed 10 hours/day. I think the former would be a lot of pressure and responsibility for the majority of APs, whereas most good/mature APs would be fine with the latter, especially if it was a one-off. But talk to her and see how she feels about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did this due to overlapping work trips. Tuesday - Friday: I left Tuesday at 5pm and returned Friday at 6pm. Kids are generally in school 8:30am - 3pm, but I organized after school activities/play dates so AP didn't have to work again until 5pm each day. I coordinated dinners each night...heat and serve, pizza delivered, etc. Kids go to bed at 8:30pm and wake up at 7am. She was off weekend + Monday before and weekend after. But yes, if you count all sleeping hours, then I exceeded the 10 hour per day rule. 5pm-8:30am, even though AP was sleeping at least 6-7 of those hours each night. AP agreed to it (I offered for neighbor to spend the night, but kind of awkward for everyone) and seemed enthusiastic about it, but ended up throwing it back in my face 5 months later. Honestly, next time I ever need this (the first time it has happened in 3 years of having APs), I will insist neighbor just spends the night. Not worth breaking the rules, even though it appears to be a seemingly fair deal for AP (and she only works 25-30 hours every other week, rarely weekend hours, etc), you never know when their AP friends are going to convince them how mistreated they are and the resentment comes through...even months later!

IMO there's a big difference between 3 overnights in a row with more than 10 hours/day and 1 overnight with 2 back to back shifts across 2 days, neither of which exceed 10 hours/day. I think the former would be a lot of pressure and responsibility for the majority of APs, whereas most good/mature APs would be fine with the latter, especially if it was a one-off. But talk to her and see how she feels about it.

Um, yeah, if I'm reading this correctly she worked Tuesday 5 PM-Wednesday 8:30 AM (15.5 hours), Wednesday 5 PM-Thursday 8:30 AM (15.5 hours), Thursday 5 PM-Friday 8:30 AM (15.5 hours), and Friday 5-6 PM (1 hour). That's way past 10 hours each day as well as being over the 45 hour limit. Totally different!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know of an official rule around breaks between shifts -- I would just talk to your Au Pair about it. I personally don't think it's a lame offer at all - assuming your kids go to bed around 8/9 o clock, this is basically only "working" 5/6 hours the first day and then - if the kids get up after 6am - 4 hours the 2nd day. This uses up almost half her hours for the week and she barely has to do anything since the kids are sleeping for most of it. If I were the AP , I would prefer to do a back to back shift and "work" 10 of my 45 hours while the kids were sleeping than work five 9-hour days during the day when the kids are all awake!

OP here. I can ask the grandparents to come over and spend the night. However, AP has told me before when they came to play with the kids that she felt awkward because it was technically during her scheduled hours. I told her next time she doesn't need to hover if the grandparents come by and she can do other stuff. Alternatively, if the grandparents are expected, then I schedule a hole to emphasize that she doesn't need to be around during those hours.

The question is mostly 1) would what I proposed be technically within guidelines and it sounds like yes. Then the next question would be 2) would AP prefer to deal with the overnight and then have grandparents around for more "normal" hours (during the afternoon on the 2nd day), or keep her normal schedule and have the grandparents stay over. She might feel uncomfortable having the grandparents stay overnight and prefer the first scenario. Either way, I'm ok with the gray area, but prefer not to do something explicitly illegal (which this doesn't sound like it is).

I also agree with PP. This is basically 1 whole day and not multiple days, so I would hope it doesn't breed resentment or demands for a big bonus. I'm happy providing a bonus after the fact, but not with the expectation of a bonus by AP.

[Anonymous]

Except that she was sleeping for 21 hours of this, kids are 11 and 13, dinners were organized, kids make their own breakfast/lunch, in car pools, she isn't involved with homework, no pet, etc. It was an adult body in the house (as usual) and she did their laundry once. Not particularly stressful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Except that she was sleeping for 21 hours of this, kids are 11 and 13, dinners were organized, kids make their own breakfast/lunch, in car pools, she isn't involved with homework, no pet, etc. It was an adult body in the house (as usual) and she did their laundry once. Not particularly stressful

Totally doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Except that she was sleeping for 21 hours of this, kids are 11 and 13, dinners were organized, kids make their own breakfast/lunch, in car pools, she isn't involved with homework, no pet, etc. It was an adult body in the house (as usual) and she did their laundry once. Not particularly stressful

Totally doesn't matter.

It's not about whether it is stressful or not. It doesn't sound like the AP is able to freely come and go from 5pm-8:30am between Tuesday and Friday. This means she is on-duty. Doesn't matter what she is doing or if she is awake or asleep. As long as she cannot freely leave the house, then she is on-duty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know of an official rule around breaks between shifts -- I would just talk to your Au Pair about it. I personally don't think it's a lame offer at all - assuming your kids go to bed around 8/9 o clock, this is basically only "working" 5/6 hours the first day and then - if the kids get up after 6am - 4 hours the 2nd day. This uses up almost half her hours for the week and she barely has to do anything since the kids are sleeping for most of it. If I were the AP , I would prefer to do a back to back shift and "work" 10 of my 45 hours while the kids were sleeping than work five 9-hour days during the day when the kids are all awake!

OP here. I can ask the grandparents to come over and spend the night. However, AP has told me before when they came to play with the kids that she felt awkward because it was technically during her scheduled hours. I told her next time she doesn't need to hover if the grandparents come by and she can do other stuff. Alternatively, if the grandparents are expected, then I schedule a hole to emphasize that she doesn't need to be around during those hours.

The question is mostly 1) would what I proposed be technically within guidelines and it sounds like yes. Then the next question would be 2) would AP prefer to deal with the overnight and then have grandparents around for more "normal" hours (during the afternoon on the 2nd day), or keep her normal schedule and have the grandparents stay over. She might feel uncomfortable having the grandparents stay overnight and prefer the first scenario. Either way, I'm ok with the gray area, but prefer not to do something explicitly illegal (which this doesn't sound like it is).

I also agree with PP. This is basically 1 whole day and not multiple days, so I would hope it doesn't breed resentment or demands for a big bonus. I'm happy providing a bonus after the fact, but not with the expectation of a bonus by AP.

I see OP's situation as 10 hours on Tuesday and 10 hours on Wed. which is the limit per guideline and legal. Very different from the PP who had the AP work from Tuesday to Friday, each day 5pm-8:30am.

I would ask for the AP's preference about whether she wants the early morning shift (12am-10am) or the normal schedule on Wed. Explain the calculation with her that this is two 10 hour shifts over 2 days (Tue and Wed) without a break in between shifts so she doesn't misinterpret it as one long 20 hour shift in one day and start to complain to others that OP made the AP work a 20 hour day.

[Anonymous]

So AP can't leave freely for 20 hours? How is this different than PP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So AP can't leave freely for 20 hours? How is this different than PP?

It's 20 hours in a 48 hour period