Senate Bill No. 804 – VIRGINIA - Minimum Wage for Au Pairs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, those are the families who will leave first. There are so many options for after school care and for hourly after school sitters that it doesn't make sense to pay room/board for someone in addition to everything else. I will let others who may know more about MA chime in, but from what I can tell from hearing from host parents in MA, it's the ones with infants where the program is still cost effective. For 20 hours of childcare a week, it wouldn't be worth the overhead of paperwork and agency fees.

I won't pretend to be an expert on the policies or anything. I know we have school age kids and would just go back to camp and after school programs. I'm not cheap or trying to find cheap care since it actually costs more now to host an aupair than it did to have my children in an extended day program. I liked them being home after school. It's why we would leave when the aupair program becomes more than 3 times as expensive as our extended day option at school. Right now, we can justify it by the luxury of it all. At some point, it become ridiculous.

And yeah, our van has in-dash navigation so not sure the smart phone/dumb phone argument is exactly the same for us. I hardly use the phone navigation. I think most of those perks would disappear for most families.

I don't understand what you are saying. for those of us who use under 20hrs a week of childcare, why would be leave? There is no added expense...

If I needed aftercare, I would use that, but we need a driver, this is the reality of having older children. I don't need someone to watch them, I need a driver. I don't skip aftercare "because it is nice for the kids to come home after school" My oldest is in 8th grade, there is no aftercare for him anyway. Even in summer my kids do camp, but I don't want to be the one driving them-I have a career, as does DH that requires that we give 9hrs a day to our employer, shuttling kids to frineds houses in the summer and picking them up from a camp that ends at 1PM is not compatible with our careers. Many of the camps they do are just 5 hours or so.

Well, I’m one of those HM: use less than 20 hrs now, maybe more in summer. I have two kids that I can even leave home alone officially, and then the oldest can babysit the youngest if I want to... but I need a driver, and a flexible driver. Our family also became attached to our BPs, and I think those relationships and experience influenced all of us in a positive way.

I don’t know if I’ll leave, but it won’t be the same for me. I don’t count hours. I don’t feel like I have employer-employee relationship with our BPs, they are members of the family. Like when my son asks at 9 pm to play (parents are home) and he and BP go downstairs and play a video game for an hour, should I now count this hour as work? And if I have to pay extra for that hour, do I tell my son “No, Larlo can’t play with you now”... They certainly both enjoy the game

What about when I come home from Costco on Saturday, BPs day off, and my BP without asking unloads the car and puts away groceries? Do I count that as work?

If I have to pay extra per week, I’ll probably not invite them on vacations. I certainly don’t need them. We all had fun, and they all have been thanking for the trips and experiences. Do I also count it as work for them to go to DisneyWorld with us?

Do I then charge them AirBnB rates for hosting their mother/brother? Oh, and not to forget to ask to be reimbursed for cereal that their guests ate for breakfast... or just say no to visitors when I have a spare guest bedroom?

If I start tracking time, treat them as employee it won’t be the same. I had nannies, they were employees. I do not invite our previous nannies to hang out with us. I invite my BPs. My previous BP visited when his term was over, just because he wanted to.

These are the reasons why I’ll consider other options. I don’t want the hustle of having undefined relationship...

[Anonymous]

Many, many APs have been abused for far too long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many, many APs have been abused for far too long.

True. Our AP was abused by going on vacation in Europe, Asia, and the Caribbean. She was forced to drive her own dedicated car (a ford - slummy!). She was forced to spend all of her evenings and weekends shopping and hanging out with friends. She suffered through having her ADU cleaned by our housekeeper, hand-rolled pasta dinners, etc. We miserly paid for an unlimited call, text, and data plan and gym membership. We selfishly let her her siblings stay with us for two weeks. We rudely took her out for dinner, family excursions, and sundry. The horrible ogres that we are, we gave $1000 towards her education (even though we were required to pay only $500). She provided 45 hours of childcare, which she bargained for before we matched. Call CPS!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many, many APs have been abused for far too long.

True. Our AP was abused by going on vacation in Europe, Asia, and the Caribbean. She was forced to drive her own dedicated car (a ford - slummy!). She was forced to spend all of her evenings and weekends shopping and hanging out with friends. She suffered through having her ADU cleaned by our housekeeper, hand-rolled pasta dinners, etc. We miserly paid for an unlimited call, text, and data plan and gym membership. We selfishly let her her siblings stay with us for two weeks. We rudely took her out for dinner, family excursions, and sundry. The horrible ogres that we are, we gave $1000 towards her education (even though we were required to pay only $500). She provided 45 hours of childcare, which she bargained for before we matched. Call CPS!

Right! Yeah, ours have been so abused by going on a cruise to the Bahamas, having their own suite which we could rent for $800/month, unlimited data phone plan, Christmas in manhattan, all meals out paid for which usually is weekly, a new car to drive, but sure, she has to drive kids around for 20 hours a week so definitely call the authorities. She could easily rematch and leave her 'abuse-ridden home' if she wanted to and be placed somewhere else to be abused within weeks with free airfare anywhere she wanted to go where she matched with a family. But, yeah, omg, call CPS. She's in real danger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, those are the families who will leave first. There are so many options for after school care and for hourly after school sitters that it doesn't make sense to pay room/board for someone in addition to everything else. I will let others who may know more about MA chime in, but from what I can tell from hearing from host parents in MA, it's the ones with infants where the program is still cost effective. For 20 hours of childcare a week, it wouldn't be worth the overhead of paperwork and agency fees.

I won't pretend to be an expert on the policies or anything. I know we have school age kids and would just go back to camp and after school programs. I'm not cheap or trying to find cheap care since it actually costs more now to host an aupair than it did to have my children in an extended day program. I liked them being home after school. It's why we would leave when the aupair program becomes more than 3 times as expensive as our extended day option at school. Right now, we can justify it by the luxury of it all. At some point, it become ridiculous.

And yeah, our van has in-dash navigation so not sure the smart phone/dumb phone argument is exactly the same for us. I hardly use the phone navigation. I think most of those perks would disappear for most families.

I don't understand what you are saying. for those of us who use under 20hrs a week of childcare, why would be leave? There is no added expense...

If I needed aftercare, I would use that, but we need a driver, this is the reality of having older children. I don't need someone to watch them, I need a driver. I don't skip aftercare "because it is nice for the kids to come home after school" My oldest is in 8th grade, there is no aftercare for him anyway. Even in summer my kids do camp, but I don't want to be the one driving them-I have a career, as does DH that requires that we give 9hrs a day to our employer, shuttling kids to frineds houses in the summer and picking them up from a camp that ends at 1PM is not compatible with our careers. Many of the camps they do are just 5 hours or so.

Well, I’m one of those HM: use less than 20 hrs now, maybe more in summer. I have two kids that I can even leave home alone officially, and then the oldest can babysit the youngest if I want to... but I need a driver, and a flexible driver. Our family also became attached to our BPs, and I think those relationships and experience influenced all of us in a positive way.

I don’t know if I’ll leave, but it won’t be the same for me. I don’t count hours. I don’t feel like I have employer-employee relationship with our BPs, they are members of the family. Like when my son asks at 9 pm to play (parents are home) and he and BP go downstairs and play a video game for an hour, should I now count this hour as work? And if I have to pay extra for that hour, do I tell my son “No, Larlo can’t play with you now”... They certainly both enjoy the game

What about when I come home from Costco on Saturday, BPs day off, and my BP without asking unloads the car and puts away groceries? Do I count that as work?

If I have to pay extra per week, I’ll probably not invite them on vacations. I certainly don’t need them. We all had fun, and they all have been thanking for the trips and experiences. Do I also count it as work for them to go to DisneyWorld with us?

Do I then charge them AirBnB rates for hosting their mother/brother? Oh, and not to forget to ask to be reimbursed for cereal that their guests ate for breakfast... or just say no to visitors when I have a spare guest bedroom?

If I start tracking time, treat them as employee it won’t be the same. I had nannies, they were employees. I do not invite our previous nannies to hang out with us. I invite my BPs. My previous BP visited when his term was over, just because he wanted to.

These are the reasons why I’ll consider other options. I don’t want the hustle of having undefined relationship...

I think this is the issue that will stop us from hosting again. Yes, we have hosted an aupair for driving home from school and afterschool activities for 2 years. She works 20'ish hours a week. She doesn't do laundry, stay home with toddlers and rarely cooks. She shuffles preteens and a teenager around from school to home and sometimes to scout events.
Is this work the paperwork and tax liabilities for an aupair who is paid hourly? I don't know. We may sit on the sidelines and wait to see how all of the logistics work out.
We have hosted for 12 years. It's been wonderful and we are good friends with every past aupairs. No regrets. I also think it may be time for my husband and I to juggle our own schedules and be the ones who drive kids around or set up carpools, local sitters or something.
I would be lying if I knew what that something is since we have hosted for so long and become reliant on the fact that a flexible, driving aupair is available to help us out. I think it's a good idea to come up with options now and see how everything shakes out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many, many APs have been abused for far too long.

True. Our AP was abused by going on vacation in Europe, Asia, and the Caribbean. She was forced to drive her own dedicated car (a ford - slummy!). She was forced to spend all of her evenings and weekends shopping and hanging out with friends. She suffered through having her ADU cleaned by our housekeeper, hand-rolled pasta dinners, etc. We miserly paid for an unlimited call, text, and data plan and gym membership. We selfishly let her her siblings stay with us for two weeks. We rudely took her out for dinner, family excursions, and sundry. The horrible ogres that we are, we gave $1000 towards her education (even though we were required to pay only $500). She provided 45 hours of childcare, which she bargained for before we matched. Call CPS!

Right! Yeah, ours have been so abused by going on a cruise to the Bahamas, having their own suite which we could rent for $800/month, unlimited data phone plan, Christmas in manhattan, all meals out paid for which usually is weekly, a new car to drive, but sure, she has to drive kids around for 20 hours a week so definitely call the authorities. She could easily rematch and leave her 'abuse-ridden home' if she wanted to and be placed somewhere else to be abused within weeks with free airfare anywhere she wanted to go where she matched with a family. But, yeah, omg, call CPS. She's in real danger.

Those posts are funny, doesn’t it dawn on people that while you may not be abusing your APs many may well be. Plenty of host moms here come for advice, explain their OP situation and as soon as they are told what they do isn’t in line with the program they either say it doesn’t matter because their AP is okay with it (even though AP don’t really have the freedom to say no) or get all arsy saying obviously everyone here is a nanny troll.

While you may be a good family, plenty are not. While you may go above and beyond for your AP, plenty do not, while you may respect the contract to a T plenty do not. It’s not hard to imagine that your AP’s experience isn’t the experience of every AP and that plenty of AP are taken advantage of, even if that’s not the case of your APs.

If no APs in the history of APs had ever been abused girls like Sophie Lionnet would still be alive and not dead, she was an extreme case but when such cases exists (and this one is VERY recent) pretending like abuse doesn’t exist because you don’t abuse your APs is of very bad taste. Kuddos to you for not abusing your APs, wouldn’t it be great if everyone had the same attitude to the program (and maybe then this lawsuit wouldn’t even be a thing) but it’s obviously not the case so I can’t see how acknowledging that some APs do get abuse and need more protection/stricter laws while also acknowledging that not all APs get abused is so hard to some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many, many APs have been abused for far too long.

True. Our AP was abused by going on vacation in Europe, Asia, and the Caribbean. She was forced to drive her own dedicated car (a ford - slummy!). She was forced to spend all of her evenings and weekends shopping and hanging out with friends. She suffered through having her ADU cleaned by our housekeeper, hand-rolled pasta dinners, etc. We miserly paid for an unlimited call, text, and data plan and gym membership. We selfishly let her her siblings stay with us for two weeks. We rudely took her out for dinner, family excursions, and sundry. The horrible ogres that we are, we gave $1000 towards her education (even though we were required to pay only $500). She provided 45 hours of childcare, which she bargained for before we matched. Call CPS!

Right! Yeah, ours have been so abused by going on a cruise to the Bahamas, having their own suite which we could rent for $800/month, unlimited data phone plan, Christmas in manhattan, all meals out paid for which usually is weekly, a new car to drive, but sure, she has to drive kids around for 20 hours a week so definitely call the authorities. She could easily rematch and leave her 'abuse-ridden home' if she wanted to and be placed somewhere else to be abused within weeks with free airfare anywhere she wanted to go where she matched with a family. But, yeah, omg, call CPS. She's in real danger.

Those posts are funny, doesn’t it dawn on people that while you may not be abusing your APs many may well be. Plenty of host moms here come for advice, explain their OP situation and as soon as they are told what they do isn’t in line with the program they either say it doesn’t matter because their AP is okay with it (even though AP don’t really have the freedom to say no) or get all arsy saying obviously everyone here is a nanny troll.

While you may be a good family, plenty are not. While you may go above and beyond for your AP, plenty do not, while you may respect the contract to a T plenty do not. It’s not hard to imagine that your AP’s experience isn’t the experience of every AP and that plenty of AP are taken advantage of, even if that’s not the case of your APs.

If no APs in the history of APs had ever been abused girls like Sophie Lionnet would still be alive and not dead, she was an extreme case but when such cases exists (and this one is VERY recent) pretending like abuse doesn’t exist because you don’t abuse your APs is of very bad taste. Kuddos to you for not abusing your APs, wouldn’t it be great if everyone had the same attitude to the program (and maybe then this lawsuit wouldn’t even be a thing) but it’s obviously not the case so I can’t see how acknowledging that some APs do get abuse and need more protection/stricter laws while also acknowledging that not all APs get abused is so hard to some.

Except the prevalence (or not) of abuse has nothing to do with whether APs should be entitled to minimum wage or how to calculate FMV of all other benefits they receive in calculating minimum wage, unless the hypothesis is that I'm less likely to abuse someone to whom I'm paying a higher wage than someone to whom i'm paying a lower wage?

[Anonymous]

OMG! I just googled Sophie Lionnet. While her host parents abused and tortured (and ultimately burned her to death), I agreed this recent case is extreme. But what’s more common here is overworking the au pairs with zero required documentation of the hours worked, or what tasks are demanded.

Au pairs should absolutely document everything that goes on, especially where there’s the question of breaking the rules.

The other thing that concerns me the sexual abuse of the au pair. These things aren’t widely reported here, because the AP simply gets swiftly shipped back to wherever she came from. And that’s the end of that, not to mention the unintended pregnancies. Not every AP is willing to get an abortion. Nothing is documented about how often that happens. It could be either the host father (while the mother was away traveling), or one of the boyfriends.

We should know how common this is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG! I just googled Sophie Lionnet. While her host parents abused and tortured (and ultimately burned her to death), I agreed this recent case is extreme. But what’s more common here is overworking the au pairs with zero required documentation of the hours worked, or what tasks are demanded.

Au pairs should absolutely document everything that goes on, especially where there’s the question of breaking the rules.

The other thing that concerns me the sexual abuse of the au pair. These things aren’t widely reported here, because the AP simply gets swiftly shipped back to wherever she came from. And that’s the end of that, not to mention the unintended pregnancies. Not every AP is willing to get an abortion. Nothing is documented about how often that happens. It could be either the host father (while the mother was away traveling), or one of the boyfriends.

We should know how common this is.

Yes, so glad random US states are starting to require paying minimum wage to Au Pairs, this surely will help stop APs from getting murdered IN ENGLAND and all of the sexual abuse from host dads that you claim is so prevalent- please provide any stats you have on APs getting pregnant while in the US and again, tell me how that relates to the issue of this thread- current patch work of states who are upending a federally-run and supervised program. Go ahead, I'll wait. Essentially this bill and those like it make APs more like live-in nannies, except they'll still have a temporary legal status here in the US. Last time I checked, live in nannies can also get abused, murdered, taken advantage of by bad people and ummm pregnant by any number of people. Do you know portend to know their generalized feelings on abortion too for these fictional rape babies? Literally nothing about this current legal mess will solve any of these so-called problems with the Au Pair program that you are so worried about.

No, what you really are wanting with your fear mongering (like the domestic workers unions/lobbies aka nannies who already make well above minimum wage but are pushing these bills in states across the US to kill competition from APs) is to end the AP program. But that needs to be done on a federal level, it is a federal visa program. Ultimately, it would only take a State Department rule to state "Au Pairs are not subject to state or local domestic workers laws" and this grey legal mess would be over. However, given Trump's anti-immigration/anti-cultural exchange/protectionism stance, I won't hold my breath. Au Pairs work ALL OVER THE WORLD. It is scene as an opportunity for cultural exchange ALL OVER THE WORLD. This is not a US-specific program. I'm sure many APs would rather live in European countries than the US given the current state of politics here. Fact is, APs are treated pretty well in the US compared to the culture around APs in places like Germany. In fact, there are AMERICAN GIRLS who go do this work in countries abroad- shocking I know. It's like studying abroad and instead of school, you take care of kids. Are you worried about those American girls getting raped and pregnant? Maybe you should be-- they could go to ENGLAND AND GET MURDERED.

[Anonymous]

Ha! Of course someone faults Trump for this. We are all on this message board discussing implications of liberal policies in blue states...yet let’s blame Republicans!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ha! Of course someone faults Trump for this. We are all on this message board discussing implications of liberal policies in blue states...yet let’s blame Republicans!

Literally no one blamed Republicans for what is currently killing the AP program- these state bills. That doesn't change the fact that the top-down measures needed at the federal level to address the concerns about the AP program that everyone keeps yelling about would be done by whoever was running the State Department- currently that is a Trump appointee. Part of the advocacy around this is lobbying the state department to change the rules, but as said before, that may fall on deaf ears currently.

[Anonymous]

This is what happens when virgins goes socialist....I mean blue in the legislature.
We will drop out of program immediately if this passes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when virgins goes socialist....I mean blue in the legislature.
We will drop out of program immediately if this passes.

What will your new arrangements be?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is an easy copy/paste of the entire Labor & Commerce committee as well as the lead sponsors (just add your local reps): [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]

Thank you for making this so easy to send an email!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is what happens when virgins goes socialist....I mean blue in the legislature.
We will drop out of program immediately if this passes.

Well, Liberals are supposed to be looking out for the workers’ rights, right?