Anonymous
01/21/2018 10:06
Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:I hear ICE agents are glued to their couches watching every bit of cable tv they can before the shit gets cut off due to non payment . Oops ! can't troll 7-11 locations on tax payers dime anymore . What are they ? Like GS7? $70k/max?
ICE is essential. They are still going by 7-11s, churches, schools, court buildings, etc., deporting people when those people are in proceedings that prevent removal.
Anonymous
01/21/2018 10:05
Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?
They had something and Trump did a 180 and so McConnell scrapped it. So I guess those that voted for Trump feel that these are successful negotiation tactics?
The gang of six never had majority support much less 60 votes in the Senate. They tried to get Trumps endorsement for their plan BEFORE they had a workable coalition and Trump wasn't having it. They played themselves. Trump has made it very clear he will sign any bill Congress brings to him. It's not Trumps job to corral 60 votes. It's not McConnells either because why should McConnell try to pass Schumers bill? I.e. a cr which includes DACA. It's Schumers task to get 60 votes for the proposal Schumer wants, and they simply don't exist.
Trump has made nothing “clear.” He has literally changed his position on these issues in hours or days. McConnell is strapped because he doesn’t know what the president will sign. There are MULTIPLE routes to compromise here, and McConnell will not move forward. Even a no strings push to get 5 days and then get to bipartisan agreement was rejected by McC. Even a no strings bill to get military service members paid regardless, was rejected.
Trump will certainly sign a CR that doesn't include DACA. DACA can be left for another day. Schumer doesn't want to do that simply because on the merits of immigration reform as a stand alone issue, the left lacks support for what it wants to do. Thus Schumers play is to leverage a shut down to get an immigration reform bill that he would never be able to get on it's own merits. However this is not a matter of principle for schumer thus he has no sustainable negotiating position on the shut down. That's why he will cave but try to spin his caving as a win.
Anonymous
01/21/2018 10:04
Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
I hear ICE agents are glued to their couches watching every bit of cable tv they can before the shit gets cut off due to non payment . Oops ! can't troll 7-11 locations on tax payers dime anymore . What are they ? Like GS7? $70k/max?
Anonymous
01/21/2018 09:54
Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?
Neither he nor the Rs have put anything forward. Despite promises that they would do so.
Sure he did. He terminated DACA and advocated a policy of strict enforcement of existing immigration law. That's his platform. The left is delusional. "Immigration reform". doesn't mean let them all in, except to the left.
Trump is pro-DACA.
Right. Which is why this impasse is not his fault. However, it's not Trumps job to try to get 60 votes in the Senate to pass the Democratic version of immigration reform. Somehow Schumer and the left doesn't grasp this obvious fact. The left doesnt have 60 votes in the Senate for what Schumer wants. If DACA is so important to Schumer then the.left will have to make to make a lit more concessions on other things to get 60 votes. Maybe unrelated things that will appeal to enough senators of both parties to get a bill passed. After all Schumer only needs about 12 republicans because he's got 48 democratic senators lining up behind him.
Doesn't he?
Rs want DACA too. McConnell just doesn't want to "lose". Or compromise.
Anonymous
01/21/2018 09:52
Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?
Neither he nor the Rs have put anything forward. Despite promises that they would do so.
Sure he did. He terminated DACA and advocated a policy of strict enforcement of existing immigration law. That's his platform. The left is delusional. "Immigration reform". doesn't mean let them all in, except to the left.
Trump is pro-DACA.
Right. Which is why this impasse is not his fault. However, it's not Trumps job to try to get 60 votes in the Senate to pass the Democratic version of immigration reform. Somehow Schumer and the left doesn't grasp this obvious fact. The left doesnt have 60 votes in the Senate for what Schumer wants. If DACA is so important to Schumer then the.left will have to make to make a lit more concessions on other things to get 60 votes. Maybe unrelated things that will appeal to enough senators of both parties to get a bill passed. After all Schumer only needs about 12 republicans because he's got 48 democratic senators lining up behind him.
Doesn't he?
Anonymous
01/21/2018 09:49
Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?
They had something and Trump did a 180 and so McConnell scrapped it. So I guess those that voted for Trump feel that these are successful negotiation tactics?
The gang of six never had majority support much less 60 votes in the Senate. They tried to get Trumps endorsement for their plan BEFORE they had a workable coalition and Trump wasn't having it. They played themselves. Trump has made it very clear he will sign any bill Congress brings to him. It's not Trumps job to corral 60 votes. It's not McConnells either because why should McConnell try to pass Schumers bill? I.e. a cr which includes DACA. It's Schumers task to get 60 votes for the proposal Schumer wants, and they simply don't exist.
Trump has made nothing “clear.” He has literally changed his position on these issues in hours or days. McConnell is strapped because he doesn’t know what the president will sign. There are MULTIPLE routes to compromise here, and McConnell will not move forward. Even a no strings push to get 5 days and then get to bipartisan agreement was rejected by McC. Even a no strings bill to get military service members paid regardless, was rejected.
Anonymous
01/21/2018 09:47
Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
The Wall is symbolic. Kelly admitted as much the other day which is why Trump was angry at him-for undercutting Trumps negotiating position. But as soon as Schumer let it float that dems were on board with even the concept of a wall, this became a huge political victory for Trump. To concede even one penny for a Wall means Schumer is far more desperate for a deal then Trump is. The Dems will cave because they have no principled position and there will be a lot of Schumers constituents not getting paychecks starting next week. If this were a matter of principle schumer would proudly be taking credit for the shut down on behalf of DACA not trying to run away from it.
Schumer values keeping the government open. Trump doesn't.
It's good that someone does, even if it's not the president.
+1 “conceding even one penny” is what we like to call compromise. How can Schumer and Dems be blamed for the shutdown if they were conceding and the other folks said, “Nope!”
Yep. They are bullies.
I am an independent voter in a purple state who has voted GOP many times. No more. Not even for the lowest jobs.
Anonymous
01/21/2018 09:47
Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Funding for a wall isn't going to do much to mitigate the effects of giving amnesty to millions of adults brought here as children who will then be able to sponsor the parents who brought them here and their siblings who can then sponsor their parents and siblings (and siblings' children) and their other children. Why do you think there's such a extreme wait to immigrate to the US from Mexico for so many people?
You can read just a single person's story in this article https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/23/millions-of-immigrants-waiting-for-green-cards/2450461/ and it will explain why there are still backlogs to this day.
The Wall is symbolic. Kelly admitted as much the other day which is why Trump was angry at him-for undercutting Trumps negotiating position. But as soon as Schumer let it float that dems were on board with even the concept of a wall, this became a huge political victory for Trump. To concede even one penny for a Wall means Schumer is far more desperate for a deal then Trump is. The Dems will cave because they have no principled position and there will be a lot of Schumers constituents not getting paychecks starting next week. If this were a matter of principle schumer would proudly be taking credit for the shut down on behalf of DACA not trying to run away from it.
Wait. The Wall is symbolic? You, a taxpayer (I presume) are okay with paying TWENTY BILLION DOLLARS for a symbol?
PP is a fiscal conservative, of course
You know he claims to be. I wonder how many times he's posted on this thread, complaining about the cost of dreamers and that no one in America likes them (even though that’s the exact opposite of reality), but is totally cool with blowing 20 billion on grift for Trump donors. To build a symbol.
Anonymous
01/21/2018 09:46
Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The actions in the House yesterday by the Left was sad. Twice they requested that the words of Congressman get pulled back only to later rescind the request. They are sore losers who use parliamentary procedures to disrupt instead of running on ideas. The Democratic party will be a non factor for years or perhaps decades to come.
Da, Ivan. Now go back to your borscht.
Who is Ivan and what is borscht? Try as you may lefties with your Russian rhetoric, it's as fake as the collusion... err obstruction... err fill in the blank motive to impeach Trump.
Ask Hannity to come up with some better talking points for you next time.
Anonymous
01/21/2018 09:46
Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?
Neither he nor the Rs have put anything forward. Despite promises that they would do so.
Sure he did. He terminated DACA and advocated a policy of strict enforcement of existing immigration law. That's his platform. The left is delusional. "Immigration reform". doesn't mean let them all in, except to the left.
Exactly! To them, immigration reform means let them become citizens.
And the D is DACA stands for "deferred." Obama wrote an order allowing them to stay temporarily, deferring action to some point in the future. Figured he'd postpone it forever, a D would get in, and voila! - anither million D votes are born. He didn't count on an R winning.
That's not immigration reform. Trump asked Congress to send him an immigration reform bill to sign. McConnell promised Flake they would vote on DACA. They haven't.
Jello.
Anonymous
01/21/2018 09:46
Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
The Wall is symbolic. Kelly admitted as much the other day which is why Trump was angry at him-for undercutting Trumps negotiating position. But as soon as Schumer let it float that dems were on board with even the concept of a wall, this became a huge political victory for Trump. To concede even one penny for a Wall means Schumer is far more desperate for a deal then Trump is. The Dems will cave because they have no principled position and there will be a lot of Schumers constituents not getting paychecks starting next week. If this were a matter of principle schumer would proudly be taking credit for the shut down on behalf of DACA not trying to run away from it.
Schumer values keeping the government open. Trump doesn't.
It's good that someone does, even if it's not the president.
+1 “conceding even one penny” is what we like to call compromise. How can Schumer and Dems be blamed for the shutdown if they were conceding and the other folks said, “Nope!”
Anonymous
01/21/2018 09:45
Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?
They had something and Trump did a 180 and so McConnell scrapped it. So I guess those that voted for Trump feel that these are successful negotiation tactics?
The gang of six never had majority support much less 60 votes in the Senate. They tried to get Trumps endorsement for their plan BEFORE they had a workable coalition and Trump wasn't having it. They played themselves. Trump has made it very clear he will sign any bill Congress brings to him. It's not Trumps job to corral 60 votes. It's not McConnells either because why should McConnell try to pass Schumers bill? I.e. a cr which includes DACA. It's Schumers task to get 60 votes for the proposal Schumer wants, and they simply don't exist.
Anonymous
01/21/2018 09:45
Subject: Re:Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
The Wall is symbolic. Kelly admitted as much the other day which is why Trump was angry at him-for undercutting Trumps negotiating position. But as soon as Schumer let it float that dems were on board with even the concept of a wall, this became a huge political victory for Trump. To concede even one penny for a Wall means Schumer is far more desperate for a deal then Trump is. The Dems will cave because they have no principled position and there will be a lot of Schumers constituents not getting paychecks starting next week. If this were a matter of principle schumer would proudly be taking credit for the shut down on behalf of DACA not trying to run away from it.
Schumer values keeping the government open. Trump doesn't.
It's good that someone does, even if it's not the president.
If he values keeping the government open, why did he throw this DACA business into the funding bill? He figured he'd use a shutdown as leverage to get what he wanted for the illegals. Didn't work.
Anonymous
01/21/2018 09:43
Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?
Neither he nor the Rs have put anything forward. Despite promises that they would do so.
Sure he did. He terminated DACA and advocated a policy of strict enforcement of existing immigration law. That's his platform. The left is delusional. "Immigration reform". doesn't mean let them all in, except to the left.
Exactly! To them, immigration reform means let them become citizens.
And the D is DACA stands for "deferred." Obama wrote an order allowing them to stay temporarily, deferring action to some point in the future. Figured he'd postpone it forever, a D would get in, and voila! - anither million D votes are born. He didn't count on an R winning.
Anonymous
01/21/2018 09:40
Subject: Shutdown Rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP here: if the dems thought they had such overwhelming national support for what they want on immigration they would have no need to try to leverage a government shut down to get it. The left is delusional. Have you already forgotten that this is one of the issues that elected Trump?
Neither he nor the Rs have put anything forward. Despite promises that they would do so.
Sure he did. He terminated DACA and advocated a policy of strict enforcement of existing immigration law. That's his platform. The left is delusional. "Immigration reform". doesn't mean let them all in, except to the left.
Trump is pro-DACA.
^^^ Adding, that is not immigration reform. You're getting confused.