I can see the dichotomy in the posts reflect somes opinion that the CogAT matters in some way. There is no question that study for spelling tests, math tests, SATs, college exams, etc help, as the tests are measuring specific knowledge. The only use of the CogAT in FCPS (from what I can tell) is AAP. But, it is one of several factors. A good CogAT (96-98) with an 8 GBRS will not get the child into AAP. In contrast an 82% CogAT with a good GBRS (14+) will get the child in.

The reason is the FCPS has devalued testing because of the test prep. It is used to identify kids to screen for AAP, but any child can be parentally referred. If you feel the need to prep through the prep classes, and you think the child is worthy of AAP, spend the money on IQ test, like the WISC. A WISC of 130+ will get the child into AAP regardless of GBRS.

"The idea that the AAP is some sort of a prize won by obtaining a high score is patently false. Some people apparently find this difficult to believe, but FCPS actually just wants to provide the best education they can for each individual child. They cannot do that if the test results are unreliable."

Patently false ... to whom? you.

Most of us are not bitter and distrustful of anyone outside our own families. Most of us are not paranoid that the educational system is trying to keep our children out of some special program.

The examples cited here are all situations that involve learning subject matter. These situations are not at all a good analogy to the tests being discussed here. Fairfax County Schools tests first and second graders with the goal of seeing how students learn and then using those results in the classroom to best meet a child's learning needs.

And CoGAT is subject matter from Pluto that definitely cannot be learned? All subject matter can be learned. The College Board marketers said the same thing about the SAT aptitude tests in the 1970s and 1980s. Now, these smart businessmen have joined the "test prep" crowd with "test prep" of their own.

1000th post. Good thread. (despite having been declared dead, moribund and/or having jumped the shark etc. several times).

The advantages of being able to afford tutors is an entirely different issue than prepping for the CogAT. Anyone can come up with $50 for a practice test. If you think it will make a huge difference in your child's life, you make the necessary sacrifices. Regarding tutors, do you think parents who can afford to give their kids a better education by using tutors should not do it to level the playing field? Also, the pp just mentioned average kids. Maybe you are the biggot by assuming there are no average kids in high SES neighborhoods.

Since when does one require $50 to "test prep"? As a parent I do a great job of test prepping all my kids. This education did not cost my children a dime.

Test prep is more than spending $50 dollars on test materials sold by a company. Your worldview is extremely myopic if you use a restrictive definition. Perhaps, the restriction eases your conscious since you can claim you did not purchase a "test Prep" manual from someone for $50 but hired tutors and enrichment course while you played games and puzzles with your kids using polygons and a variety of convex and concave shaped objects.

Its all "test prep" dearie.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not know of any FCPS student/child that won the State or National Geo Bee, Spelling Bee or Math Olympiad that did not do "test prep" NONE is 3 decades.

Those who left the prize to their immutable and innate intelligence never got out of the classroom round.

Same for music.

The examples cited here are all situations that involve learning subject matter. These situations are not at all a good analogy to the tests being discussed here. Fairfax County Schools tests first and second graders with the goal of seeing how students learn and then using those results in the classroom to best meet a child's learning needs.

The company that produces the CogAT provides a site where teachers and parents can read about how a child learns and what teaching strategies are likely to work best with a child of a particular learning profile. Here's the link: http://riversidepublishing.com/products/group/cogat6/input.jsp The profiles here give a lot of information about how a child learns and how to best help that child learn and achieve more.

Parents will not be able to learn anything about how their own child learns new material if the parent has been "prepping" the child for this specific test. The point of this assessment is to learn more about how the child learns. That reason for the test is short-circuited by practicing the questions ahead of time. The false result will give the parents and teachers no real information on how to help the child learn because it is not a real reflection of the child's strengths and weaknesses.

The idea that the AAP is some sort of a prize won by obtaining a high score is patently false. Some people apparently find this difficult to believe, but FCPS actually just wants to provide the best education they can for each individual child. They cannot do that if the test results are unreliable.

It is possible that the reason so many parents are disappointed by the AAP is that the program is not necessarily a good fit for every child. A child will achieve the most in a classroom that best suits his needs and abilities. The Advanced Academics Program is not some separate educational tier where some kids are given a "better" education that is somehow denied to all others. It is a great education for those whose needs it suits, but not so great for those for whom it is not a good fit. The regular classrooms and their teachers in FCPS provide a great education that suits the needs of many, many children. Teachers use lots of different teaching techniques and strategies that can vary from class to class and year to year depending on the individual students.

Everybody wants what is best for their own children. These second grade tests can best help the parents and teachers know how to really help their children and students learn and achieve when they give true insight into how students learn. These tests are not the end-all and be-all by any means, but they are a helpful aid when used correctly.

Ah. Now I see whre you've gone wrong. That is exactly what AAP is. Otherwise your brilliant and obviously superior child could be stuck with the hoi polloi back in a Gen. Ed. class and be disadvantaged thereby for the rest of his or her life.

Actually, based on the results of the recent elections in fairfax county, I expect most people do support FCPS.

The advantages of being able to afford tutors is an entirely different issue than prepping for the CogAT. Anyone can come up with $50 for a practice test. If you think it will make a huge difference in your child's life, you make the necessary sacrifices. Regarding tutors, do you think parents who can afford to give their kids a better education by using tutors should not do it to level the playing field? Also, the pp just mentioned average kids. Maybe you are the biggot by assuming there are no average kids in high SES neighborhoods.

Now, you want to convince us tutors do not "prep" their students. Is this engagement a play date?

Anonymous wrote:

true that through prepping even average to slighly above average kids can get into a selective and very prestigious program.
In that sense prepping is very "democratic." It levels the playing field. Perhaps that is what some are objecting to.

What makes these kids "average"...their SES or zip code? While some can only afford a few dog eared workbooks for their children; others have private tutors for their children year round to complement their higher resourced elementary schools and summer enrichment camps. I guess the former are simply average to slightly above average kids while the latter spawned zygotes from generations of knock out breeding are the real McCoys--the gifted and the intelligentsia?

^ I meant academically average. They are found in all zip codes and SES groups.

The examples cited here are all situations that involve learning subject matter. These situations are not at all a good analogy to the tests being discussed here. Fairfax County Schools tests first and second graders with the goal of seeing how students learn and then using those results in the classroom to best meet a child's learning needs.

The company that produces the CogAT provides a site where teachers and parents can read about how a child learns and what teaching strategies are likely to work best with a child of a particular learning profile. Here's the link: http://riversidepublishing.com/products/group/cogat6/input.jsp The profiles here give a lot of information about how a child learns and how to best help that child learn and achieve more.

Parents will not be able to learn anything about how their own child learns new material if the parent has been "prepping" the child for this specific test. The point of this assessment is to learn more about how the child learns. That reason for the test is short-circuited by practicing the questions ahead of time. The false result will give the parents and teachers no real information on how to help the child learn because it is not a real reflection of the child's strengths and weaknesses.

The idea that the AAP is some sort of a prize won by obtaining a high score is patently false. Some people apparently find this difficult to believe, but FCPS actually just wants to provide the best education they can for each individual child. They cannot do that if the test results are unreliable.

It is possible that the reason so many parents are disappointed by the AAP is that the program is not necessarily a good fit for every child. A child will achieve the most in a classroom that best suits his needs and abilities. The Advanced Academics Program is not some separate educational tier where some kids are given a "better" education that is somehow denied to all others. It is a great education for those whose needs it suits, but not so great for those for whom it is not a good fit. The regular classrooms and their teachers in FCPS provide a great education that suits the needs of many, many children. Teachers use lots of different teaching techniques and strategies that can vary from class to class and year to year depending on the individual students.

Please give it a rest. Most of us are not as beholden to the educational industrial complex as you. We do not worship the education testing business and their marketers the way you do. These characters are beholden to their shareholders and not children or best scientific evidence. Let's dispense with the glossy advertisement from the marketers about their test. You are extremely gullible.

Anonymous wrote:

true that through prepping even average to slighly above average kids can get into a selective and very prestigious program.
In that sense prepping is very "democratic." It levels the playing field. Perhaps that is what some are objecting to.

What makes these kids "average"...their SES or zip code? While some can only afford a few dog eared workbooks for their children; others have private tutors for their children year round to complement their higher resourced elementary schools and summer enrichment camps. I guess the former are simply average to slightly above average kids while the latter spawned zygotes from generations of knock out breeding are the real McCoys--the gifted and the intelligentsia?

The advantages of being able to afford tutors is an entirely different issue than prepping for the CogAT. Anyone can come up with $50 for a practice test. If you think it will make a huge difference in your child's life, you make the necessary sacrifices. Regarding tutors, do you think parents who can afford to give their kids a better education by using tutors should not do it to level the playing field? Also, the pp just mentioned average kids. Maybe you are the biggot by assuming there are no average kids in high SES neighborhoods.

Anonymous wrote:I do not know of any FCPS student/child that won the State or National Geo Bee, Spelling Bee or Math Olympiad that did not do "test prep" NONE is 3 decades.

Those who left the prize to their immutable and innate intelligence never got out of the classroom round.

Same for music.

The examples cited here are all situations that involve learning subject matter. These situations are not at all a good analogy to the tests being discussed here. Fairfax County Schools tests first and second graders with the goal of seeing how students learn and then using those results in the classroom to best meet a child's learning needs.

The company that produces the CogAT provides a site where teachers and parents can read about how a child learns and what teaching strategies are likely to work best with a child of a particular learning profile. Here's the link: http://riversidepublishing.com/products/group/cogat6/input.jsp The profiles here give a lot of information about how a child learns and how to best help that child learn and achieve more.

Parents will not be able to learn anything about how their own child learns new material if the parent has been "prepping" the child for this specific test. The point of this assessment is to learn more about how the child learns. That reason for the test is short-circuited by practicing the questions ahead of time. The false result will give the parents and teachers no real information on how to help the child learn because it is not a real reflection of the child's strengths and weaknesses.

The idea that the AAP is some sort of a prize won by obtaining a high score is patently false. Some people apparently find this difficult to believe, but FCPS actually just wants to provide the best education they can for each individual child. They cannot do that if the test results are unreliable.

It is possible that the reason so many parents are disappointed by the AAP is that the program is not necessarily a good fit for every child. A child will achieve the most in a classroom that best suits his needs and abilities. The Advanced Academics Program is not some separate educational tier where some kids are given a "better" education that is somehow denied to all others. It is a great education for those whose needs it suits, but not so great for those for whom it is not a good fit. The regular classrooms and their teachers in FCPS provide a great education that suits the needs of many, many children. Teachers use lots of different teaching techniques and strategies that can vary from class to class and year to year depending on the individual students.

Everybody wants what is best for their own children. These second grade tests can best help the parents and teachers know how to really help their children and students learn and achieve when they give true insight into how students learn. These tests are not the end-all and be-all by any means, but they are a helpful aid when used correctly.

They are trying to assess the ability to think and solve problems. Using practice exams may improve the score =, but it does not improve the ability to reason. Chess will improve the ability to reason. Reading, imagination, playing music, all fire those neurons. Practice CogAT's may (or may not) improve the score, but they will not improve the root intelligence. Since the county is going for a measure of the root intelligence, improving the score without improving what is being measured is called gaming the system.

And therefore oa young child should not practice, practice, and practice.

Donkey. The best time in life to learn on an exponential curve is when one is young. To save practice and preparation for high school and adulthood is foolhardy. Perhaps you are so brilliant and the best time to master languages and music is not when you are young rather when you are an adult.

The best time to boost your IQ and intelligence starts in the crib my dearie not in the nursing home.

Here is just one of the posts:

I don't get this "entitled" business at all. I am of western European background and my family has been among the poorest of the poor for generations. Most Americans of European background came to the U.S. because they had ancestors who were so poor that there was no future for them in their country of origin, so they crowded into tight quarters in steerage to come to America. Have you heard, "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore"? That describes the ancestors of many, many Americans of European heritage. Most had very little or nothing to start with but they knew how to work hard and that is what they did. They were entitled to nothing.

My own parents had very little but worked very hard. I was a National Merit Finalist and went to college on financial aid, for which I am very grateful. My children have been in the AAP program and one is at TJ right now. No "test prep" for any of us.

We have never felt that we had the right to certain things. My parents worked hard and taught me to be honest and I am teaching the same to my children. Sure, it's possible to achieve success by bending the rules and engaging in questionable practices, but I was taught that that kind of "success" will not pay in the long run.

People do not need to come from families with money to get a good education here. Lots of very poor people get an education and work hard and provide good lives for their families. There are studies that show that while the percentage of poor in the US may not change much over time, the actual people represented by those numbers do change. Many who were considered poor move up into a middle class level income, while some on the border may move down, but then move back up again. I had ancestors who had nothing in Europe, came to this country in steerage and, within a few years, owned a house.

No one is stuck at one income level for life because of their situation at birth in this country. We have free education that is available to all. Many of us from working class families used that free education, without any private tutoring or "test prepping" to go on to higher level degrees and professional school programs.


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