Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Exactly. Anyone who voluntarily leaves biglaw (or inhouse) for this is a moron and will seriously regret it. Grass is NOT greener.

lol of course it is greener. I am an Ivy League law school grad and did law review - I never worked in BigLaw and am very happy at my FinReg. I work 40 hrs a week at an intellectually stimulating job with cool people doing key work. Zero interest in ever working at BigLaw.

If it’s so great, I wonder why hundreds and hundreds of staff left those “lush green pastures” in less than 3 months. Anyone with decent options are gone or will be soon. No professional worth a damn will put up with being treated like total crap for very long.

cool now tell us about BigLaw turnover.

I definitely have no plans to leave my FinReg. The people who left were probationaries who were illegally fired or going to be; people who were well into their 60s and ready to retire; and high-level policy folks who were likely going to be demoted or targeted for Schedule F. It was a small number. yes a few early career folks who had just left Biglaw went back, but not many. Many of us have other prospects and stayed.

No law firm has ever lost 16 pct of its staff in 3 months. Unless it was imploding.

I’m not sure that’s true during economic downturns, but more importantly, law firms don’t offer the kind of incentives that led people to leave voluntarily.

I guess I’ve just had a charmed/lucky life. I’ve worked some jobs that I thought were pretty tough — fast food, bus boy, military, etc. But never did anyone ever blatantly break decade-long promises to me (eg, CBA) or force me to essentially “get on my knees” and do things like write emails purely as a power move or as a F-U. And even my worse bosses instinctively stuck up for me when it counted.

So apologies if this takes some getting used to.

I get being upset about the CBA, but your dramatization of the emails is bizarrely over the top.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Exactly. Anyone who voluntarily leaves biglaw (or inhouse) for this is a moron and will seriously regret it. Grass is NOT greener.

lol of course it is greener. I am an Ivy League law school grad and did law review - I never worked in BigLaw and am very happy at my FinReg. I work 40 hrs a week at an intellectually stimulating job with cool people doing key work. Zero interest in ever working at BigLaw.

If it’s so great, I wonder why hundreds and hundreds of staff left those “lush green pastures” in less than 3 months. Anyone with decent options are gone or will be soon. No professional worth a damn will put up with being treated like total crap for very long.

cool now tell us about BigLaw turnover.

I definitely have no plans to leave my FinReg. The people who left were probationaries who were illegally fired or going to be; people who were well into their 60s and ready to retire; and high-level policy folks who were likely going to be demoted or targeted for Schedule F. It was a small number. yes a few early career folks who had just left Biglaw went back, but not many. Many of us have other prospects and stayed.

No law firm has ever lost 16 pct of its staff in 3 months. Unless it was imploding.

I’m not sure that’s true during economic downturns, but more importantly, law firms don’t offer the kind of incentives that led people to leave voluntarily.

I guess I’ve just had a charmed/lucky life. I’ve worked some jobs that I thought were pretty tough — fast food, bus boy, military, etc. But never did anyone ever blatantly break decade-long promises to me (eg, CBA) or force me to essentially “get on my knees” and do things like write emails purely as a power move or as a F-U. And even my worse bosses instinctively stuck up for me when it counted.

So apologies if this takes some getting used to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Exactly. Anyone who voluntarily leaves biglaw (or inhouse) for this is a moron and will seriously regret it. Grass is NOT greener.

lol of course it is greener. I am an Ivy League law school grad and did law review - I never worked in BigLaw and am very happy at my FinReg. I work 40 hrs a week at an intellectually stimulating job with cool people doing key work. Zero interest in ever working at BigLaw.

If it’s so great, I wonder why hundreds and hundreds of staff left those “lush green pastures” in less than 3 months. Anyone with decent options are gone or will be soon. No professional worth a damn will put up with being treated like total crap for very long.

cool now tell us about BigLaw turnover.

I definitely have no plans to leave my FinReg. The people who left were probationaries who were illegally fired or going to be; people who were well into their 60s and ready to retire; and high-level policy folks who were likely going to be demoted or targeted for Schedule F. It was a small number. yes a few early career folks who had just left Biglaw went back, but not many. Many of us have other prospects and stayed.

No law firm has ever lost 16 pct of its staff in 3 months. Unless it was imploding.

I’m not sure that’s true during economic downturns, but more importantly, law firms don’t offer the kind of incentives that led people to leave voluntarily.

I guess I’ve just had a charmed/lucky life. I’ve worked some jobs that I thought were pretty tough — fast food, bus boy, military, etc. But never did anyone ever blatantly break decade-long promises to me (eg, CBA) or force me to essentially “get on my knees” and do things like write emails purely as a power move or as a F-U. And even my worse bosses instinctively stuck up for me when it counted.

So apologies if this takes some getting used to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Exactly. Anyone who voluntarily leaves biglaw (or inhouse) for this is a moron and will seriously regret it. Grass is NOT greener.

lol of course it is greener. I am an Ivy League law school grad and did law review - I never worked in BigLaw and am very happy at my FinReg. I work 40 hrs a week at an intellectually stimulating job with cool people doing key work. Zero interest in ever working at BigLaw.

If it’s so great, I wonder why hundreds and hundreds of staff left those “lush green pastures” in less than 3 months. Anyone with decent options are gone or will be soon. No professional worth a damn will put up with being treated like total crap for very long.

cool now tell us about BigLaw turnover.

I definitely have no plans to leave my FinReg. The people who left were probationaries who were illegally fired or going to be; people who were well into their 60s and ready to retire; and high-level policy folks who were likely going to be demoted or targeted for Schedule F. It was a small number. yes a few early career folks who had just left Biglaw went back, but not many. Many of us have other prospects and stayed.

No law firm has ever lost 16 pct of its staff in 3 months. Unless it was imploding.

I’m not sure that’s true during economic downturns, but more importantly, law firms don’t offer the kind of incentives that led people to leave voluntarily.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Exactly. Anyone who voluntarily leaves biglaw (or inhouse) for this is a moron and will seriously regret it. Grass is NOT greener.

lol of course it is greener. I am an Ivy League law school grad and did law review - I never worked in BigLaw and am very happy at my FinReg. I work 40 hrs a week at an intellectually stimulating job with cool people doing key work. Zero interest in ever working at BigLaw.

If it’s so great, I wonder why hundreds and hundreds of staff left those “lush green pastures” in less than 3 months. Anyone with decent options are gone or will be soon. No professional worth a damn will put up with being treated like total crap for very long.

cool now tell us about BigLaw turnover.

I definitely have no plans to leave my FinReg. The people who left were probationaries who were illegally fired or going to be; people who were well into their 60s and ready to retire; and high-level policy folks who were likely going to be demoted or targeted for Schedule F. It was a small number. yes a few early career folks who had just left Biglaw went back, but not many. Many of us have other prospects and stayed.

No law firm has ever lost 16 pct of its staff in 3 months. Unless it was imploding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Exactly. Anyone who voluntarily leaves biglaw (or inhouse) for this is a moron and will seriously regret it. Grass is NOT greener.

lol of course it is greener. I am an Ivy League law school grad and did law review - I never worked in BigLaw and am very happy at my FinReg. I work 40 hrs a week at an intellectually stimulating job with cool people doing key work. Zero interest in ever working at BigLaw.

If it’s so great, I wonder why hundreds and hundreds of staff left those “lush green pastures” in less than 3 months. Anyone with decent options are gone or will be soon. No professional worth a damn will put up with being treated like total crap for very long.

cool now tell us about BigLaw turnover.

I definitely have no plans to leave my FinReg. The people who left were probationaries who were illegally fired or going to be; people who were well into their 60s and ready to retire; and high-level policy folks who were likely going to be demoted or targeted for Schedule F. It was a small number. yes a few early career folks who had just left Biglaw went back, but not many. Many of us have other prospects and stayed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Exactly. Anyone who voluntarily leaves biglaw (or inhouse) for this is a moron and will seriously regret it. Grass is NOT greener.

lol of course it is greener. I am an Ivy League law school grad and did law review - I never worked in BigLaw and am very happy at my FinReg. I work 40 hrs a week at an intellectually stimulating job with cool people doing key work. Zero interest in ever working at BigLaw.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Exactly. Anyone who voluntarily leaves biglaw (or inhouse) for this is a moron and will seriously regret it. Grass is NOT greener.

lol of course it is greener. I am an Ivy League law school grad and did law review - I never worked in BigLaw and am very happy at my FinReg. I work 40 hrs a week at an intellectually stimulating job with cool people doing key work. Zero interest in ever working at BigLaw.

If it’s so great, I wonder why hundreds and hundreds of staff left those “lush green pastures” in less than 3 months. Anyone with decent options are gone or will be soon. No professional worth a damn will put up with being treated like total crap for very long.

100%. The people who will stay are the big law exiles who couldn’t cut it and somehow made it past probation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Exactly. Anyone who voluntarily leaves biglaw (or inhouse) for this is a moron and will seriously regret it. Grass is NOT greener.

lol of course it is greener. I am an Ivy League law school grad and did law review - I never worked in BigLaw and am very happy at my FinReg. I work 40 hrs a week at an intellectually stimulating job with cool people doing key work. Zero interest in ever working at BigLaw.

If it’s so great, I wonder why hundreds and hundreds of staff left those “lush green pastures” in less than 3 months. Anyone with decent options are gone or will be soon. No professional worth a damn will put up with being treated like total crap for very long.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Exactly. Anyone who voluntarily leaves biglaw (or inhouse) for this is a moron and will seriously regret it. Grass is NOT greener.

lol of course it is greener. I am an Ivy League law school grad and did law review - I never worked in BigLaw and am very happy at my FinReg. I work 40 hrs a week at an intellectually stimulating job with cool people doing key work. Zero interest in ever working at BigLaw.

If it’s so great, I wonder why hundreds and hundreds of staff left those “lush green pastures” in less than 3 months. Anyone with decent options are gone or will be soon. No professional worth a damn will put up with being treated like total crap for very long.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Exactly. Anyone who voluntarily leaves biglaw (or inhouse) for this is a moron and will seriously regret it. Grass is NOT greener.

lol of course it is greener. I am an Ivy League law school grad and did law review - I never worked in BigLaw and am very happy at my FinReg. I work 40 hrs a week at an intellectually stimulating job with cool people doing key work. Zero interest in ever working at BigLaw.

Anonymous wrote:All the people who are complaining about no "ad hoc" telework at SEC, which units are you in? My wife's unit is allowing ad hoc telework for many reasons (e.g., work being done at the house, medical appointments, kid related issues). She went back in early March (is a manager) and I'd say she has TW'd anywhere between 10 and 15 days already. Maybe it's not the agency as a whole and just your managers who aren't allowing it because they don't wan to, but I know for a fact that it isn't across the board.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Exactly. Anyone who voluntarily leaves biglaw (or inhouse) for this is a moron and will seriously regret it. Grass is NOT greener.