Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 22:26     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:Is the podcast where they said she was listening to Tom's old voicemail associated with the show? If so, I think that's definitive and you guys should stop arguing about it.

I don't think she was planning an abortion either. I went crazy two or three episodes ago analyzing what the piece of paper with Kendall's name on it meant. No. These guys are not hiding the ball in clues. The clues are super obvious. The writers mostly want you to see them. They're not sneaking things. Shiv said she was scheduling her grief and she was legit scheduling her grief.


+1, and another person who got caught up in what went on with the paper, too. This isn't a "mystery box" show like Lost. They are telling a story, not trying to make you guess at what it all means. They will tell us everything we need to know.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 21:02     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:WTH kind of name is "Wambsgans"? Sounds like it was completely made up.


It's German.


I can't for the life of me understand why the writers gave him that name. It literally means, "to waddle when walking."



It's a great name for Tom. It's weird and not a strong name. It's a little effeminate with the mbs etc -- not a lot of hard consonants. And there's the history with the triple play that applies to the end of the last season, imho.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 20:44     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Is the podcast where they said she was listening to Tom's old voicemail associated with the show? If so, I think that's definitive and you guys should stop arguing about it.

I don't think she was planning an abortion either. I went crazy two or three episodes ago analyzing what the piece of paper with Kendall's name on it meant. No. These guys are not hiding the ball in clues. The clues are super obvious. The writers mostly want you to see them. They're not sneaking things. Shiv said she was scheduling her grief and she was legit scheduling her grief.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 20:21     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:When Shiv was crying in the dark room, she was looking at her phone, and this was after the assistant made a deal about "your appointment." She could very well have just scheduled some time to cry, like she told Tom. But could there be something else, too?

I thought it was related to the pregnancy.


Ooh, I just had a thought. Shiv had scheduled time in that room and she also received a phone call right as Tom walked in, but she flipped her phone over immediately so he couldn't see. Could she have been about to schedule an abortion?
DP


No


I got the sense she was reviewing bad news. Or watching an ultrasound, or something related to the pregnancy, that made her sad, because her family had fallen apart. The specific thing is less important than the fact that Tom came in and then they seemed to flirt with rekindling things, or newly balancing their relationship.


OMG, stop. She's not getting an abortion.

DP. She was crying, obviously upset, and had a scheduled time in that room. Someone called her, seemingly right on schedule. I think she had set up a time to speak with the doctor re: scheduling an abortion. And Tom walked in right at that moment, which totally threw her off. I would bet anything that's why she was in there.


Shiv isn’t getting an abortion!! And she wouldn’t have to schedule a call with her Ob to schedule the abortion, from LA. She’d just call her OB whenever she wanted once she got back home and get it that day.

She may have definitely been waiting for a medical appointment (I did not see what was on her phone when she flipped it over) but she isn’t getting an abortion.


I disagree - she may not ultimately have an abortion, but I think she was absolutely planning to get one. But now that she and Tom seem to be back together, she's rethought things.


You’re making things up now. “She used to want to but now she doesn’t!” Nothing, literally nothing, in the series has alluded to her wanting an abortion. She got an amino and scheduled a 20 week scan. She refrained from alcohol and cocaine even when drinking and doing coke would have been helpful to the deal (since she was alone with Matson and he was offering). Unless you take brooding looks and crying to mean “oh she is scheduling an abortion and then changed her mind!” ? It could also mean she was planning on adopting a dog and then changed her mind and had a call with the dog rescue to say no, and she was crying over that decision. Because there is as much evidence for that as for her abortion plan.


+1, this is bananas. I have no problem with a storyline about Shiv getting, or contemplating, an abortion. But PP is just inventing one out of thin air. There are million reasons she could have been crying in that scene. Her dad just died, her brothers are being jerks, she's estranged from her husband, and, oh yeah, she's pumped full of pregnancy hormones which are known to make people particularly emotional. I cried 6 billion times during my pregnancy.

You can't just make up plot. If they want to write a story about Shiv getting an abortion, they will just write scenes in which that is clearly what is happening and the actor will play it. They are not going to dramatically sneak it in so you have to figure it out using clues. This is not that kind of show.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 19:41     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:When Shiv was crying in the dark room, she was looking at her phone, and this was after the assistant made a deal about "your appointment." She could very well have just scheduled some time to cry, like she told Tom. But could there be something else, too?

I thought it was related to the pregnancy.


Ooh, I just had a thought. Shiv had scheduled time in that room and she also received a phone call right as Tom walked in, but she flipped her phone over immediately so he couldn't see. Could she have been about to schedule an abortion?
DP


No


I got the sense she was reviewing bad news. Or watching an ultrasound, or something related to the pregnancy, that made her sad, because her family had fallen apart. The specific thing is less important than the fact that Tom came in and then they seemed to flirt with rekindling things, or newly balancing their relationship.


OMG, stop. She's not getting an abortion.

DP. She was crying, obviously upset, and had a scheduled time in that room. Someone called her, seemingly right on schedule. I think she had set up a time to speak with the doctor re: scheduling an abortion. And Tom walked in right at that moment, which totally threw her off. I would bet anything that's why she was in there.


Shiv isn’t getting an abortion!! And she wouldn’t have to schedule a call with her Ob to schedule the abortion, from LA. She’d just call her OB whenever she wanted once she got back home and get it that day.

She may have definitely been waiting for a medical appointment (I did not see what was on her phone when she flipped it over) but she isn’t getting an abortion.


I disagree - she may not ultimately have an abortion, but I think she was absolutely planning to get one. But now that she and Tom seem to be back together, she's rethought things.


You’re making things up now. “She used to want to but now she doesn’t!” Nothing, literally nothing, in the series has alluded to her wanting an abortion. She got an amino and scheduled a 20 week scan. She refrained from alcohol and cocaine even when drinking and doing coke would have been helpful to the deal (since she was alone with Matson and he was offering). Unless you take brooding looks and crying to mean “oh she is scheduling an abortion and then changed her mind!” ? It could also mean she was planning on adopting a dog and then changed her mind and had a call with the dog rescue to say no, and she was crying over that decision. Because there is as much evidence for that as for her abortion plan.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 18:48     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:When Shiv was crying in the dark room, she was looking at her phone, and this was after the assistant made a deal about "your appointment." She could very well have just scheduled some time to cry, like she told Tom. But could there be something else, too?

I thought it was related to the pregnancy.


Ooh, I just had a thought. Shiv had scheduled time in that room and she also received a phone call right as Tom walked in, but she flipped her phone over immediately so he couldn't see. Could she have been about to schedule an abortion?
DP


No


I got the sense she was reviewing bad news. Or watching an ultrasound, or something related to the pregnancy, that made her sad, because her family had fallen apart. The specific thing is less important than the fact that Tom came in and then they seemed to flirt with rekindling things, or newly balancing their relationship.


OMG, stop. She's not getting an abortion.

DP. She was crying, obviously upset, and had a scheduled time in that room. Someone called her, seemingly right on schedule. I think she had set up a time to speak with the doctor re: scheduling an abortion. And Tom walked in right at that moment, which totally threw her off. I would bet anything that's why she was in there.


Shiv isn’t getting an abortion!! And she wouldn’t have to schedule a call with her Ob to schedule the abortion, from LA. She’d just call her OB whenever she wanted once she got back home and get it that day.

She may have definitely been waiting for a medical appointment (I did not see what was on her phone when she flipped it over) but she isn’t getting an abortion.


I disagree - she may not ultimately have an abortion, but I think she was absolutely planning to get one. But now that she and Tom seem to be back together, she's rethought things.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 18:38     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:When Shiv was crying in the dark room, she was looking at her phone, and this was after the assistant made a deal about "your appointment." She could very well have just scheduled some time to cry, like she told Tom. But could there be something else, too?

I thought it was related to the pregnancy.


Ooh, I just had a thought. Shiv had scheduled time in that room and she also received a phone call right as Tom walked in, but she flipped her phone over immediately so he couldn't see. Could she have been about to schedule an abortion?
DP


No


I got the sense she was reviewing bad news. Or watching an ultrasound, or something related to the pregnancy, that made her sad, because her family had fallen apart. The specific thing is less important than the fact that Tom came in and then they seemed to flirt with rekindling things, or newly balancing their relationship.


OMG, stop. She's not getting an abortion.

DP. She was crying, obviously upset, and had a scheduled time in that room. Someone called her, seemingly right on schedule. I think she had set up a time to speak with the doctor re: scheduling an abortion. And Tom walked in right at that moment, which totally threw her off. I would bet anything that's why she was in there.


Shiv isn’t getting an abortion!! And she wouldn’t have to schedule a call with her Ob to schedule the abortion, from LA. She’d just call her OB whenever she wanted once she got back home and get it that day.

She may have definitely been waiting for a medical appointment (I did not see what was on her phone when she flipped it over) but she isn’t getting an abortion.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 18:18     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I love how Tom has become less of a yokel and a better sexual equal for Shiv. That discussion about how he loves money was amazing. Are these two crazy kids going to make it work after all??


I don't think so. I think this is a brief reprieve before the shit really hits the fan between them.


I’ve always had inklings that Tom was going to eventually hit Shiv. A long time ago when she was belittling him during a dinner date with another couple and he snapped at her- I saw it then- and that, combined with his cruelty to Greg and his smarmy niceness to Shiv most of the time…. And now, when he bit her and she was like “oh you finally made me feel something” …. I could be off base but I really could see him being a closet abuser. And shiv, with her history of trauma and abuse, would probably “love” him more when he did.


I don't get that vibe at all. In fact, I think Tom has steeled himself to take an awful lot. Tom doesn't really lose control.


+1
And he would never hit Shiv. He's actually very chivalrous with her.


His chivalry is what's making him hot.


DP but he hit her in the last episode in the face / ear. Were you snoozing ?


That wasn't a hit! I think he just flicked her earlobe in one of their weird, mean conversations with each other.
DP
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 18:12     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I love how Tom has become less of a yokel and a better sexual equal for Shiv. That discussion about how he loves money was amazing. Are these two crazy kids going to make it work after all??


I don't think so. I think this is a brief reprieve before the shit really hits the fan between them.


I’ve always had inklings that Tom was going to eventually hit Shiv. A long time ago when she was belittling him during a dinner date with another couple and he snapped at her- I saw it then- and that, combined with his cruelty to Greg and his smarmy niceness to Shiv most of the time…. And now, when he bit her and she was like “oh you finally made me feel something” …. I could be off base but I really could see him being a closet abuser. And shiv, with her history of trauma and abuse, would probably “love” him more when he did.


I don't get that vibe at all. In fact, I think Tom has steeled himself to take an awful lot. Tom doesn't really lose control.


+1
And he would never hit Shiv. He's actually very chivalrous with her.


His chivalry is what's making him hot.


DP but he hit her in the last episode in the face / ear. Were you snoozing ?


Can you describe this whole scene to me? I did think that I saw him hit her and even asked my husband if he saw it too but he said he didn’t see it and then I wasn’t sure if it actually happened or not. It must have been kind of subtle? Maybe I’ll have to rewatch…
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 18:11     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:WTH kind of name is "Wambsgans"? Sounds like it was completely made up.


It's German.


I can't for the life of me understand why the writers gave him that name. It literally means, "to waddle when walking."

Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 18:05     Subject: Succession - Season 4
I think leaving our last shot of Roman as him listening over to his father's belittling message in the car is actually going to help Roman get his groove back. In a way I think Kendall knew that, too, and that's why he had the message changed and sent to him -- not to eff with him but to help him. Remember when Kendall saw his dad on the green screen the first time and heard Logan say the idiots were as bad as his idiot children? And when the old guard apologized, Kendall said nah, it's like a christmas present. So he gave that same gift to Roman.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 15:24     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Here is my prediction for the ending:

The old guard thwart Ken and Roman's attempts to kill the deal and Matsson takes control. Matsson ends up putting Tom in charge (as he understands the company) in some way that causes both men to betray Shiv.

Tom wins.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 14:49     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:When Shiv was crying in the dark room, she was looking at her phone, and this was after the assistant made a deal about "your appointment." She could very well have just scheduled some time to cry, like she told Tom. But could there be something else, too?

I thought it was related to the pregnancy.


Ooh, I just had a thought. Shiv had scheduled time in that room and she also received a phone call right as Tom walked in, but she flipped her phone over immediately so he couldn't see. Could she have been about to schedule an abortion?
DP


No


I got the sense she was reviewing bad news. Or watching an ultrasound, or something related to the pregnancy, that made her sad, because her family had fallen apart. The specific thing is less important than the fact that Tom came in and then they seemed to flirt with rekindling things, or newly balancing their relationship.


OMG, stop. She's not getting an abortion.

DP. She was crying, obviously upset, and had a scheduled time in that room. Someone called her, seemingly right on schedule. I think she had set up a time to speak with the doctor re: scheduling an abortion. And Tom walked in right at that moment, which totally threw her off. I would bet anything that's why she was in there.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 11:36     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:WTH kind of name is "Wambsgans"? Sounds like it was completely made up.


I read somewhere it is actually a reference to a baseball player. According to wiki:

"He is best remembered for making one of the most spectacular defensive plays in World Series history, an unassisted triple play." !!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Wambsganss


Fascinating! Was Tom betraying the 3 sibs baked into his character from the start?


Right? His triple play at the end of Season 3 was fortold by the baseball oracles ha.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2023 11:27     Subject: Succession - Season 4
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I love how Tom has become less of a yokel and a better sexual equal for Shiv. That discussion about how he loves money was amazing. Are these two crazy kids going to make it work after all??


I don't think so. I think this is a brief reprieve before the shit really hits the fan between them.


I’ve always had inklings that Tom was going to eventually hit Shiv. A long time ago when she was belittling him during a dinner date with another couple and he snapped at her- I saw it then- and that, combined with his cruelty to Greg and his smarmy niceness to Shiv most of the time…. And now, when he bit her and she was like “oh you finally made me feel something” …. I could be off base but I really could see him being a closet abuser. And shiv, with her history of trauma and abuse, would probably “love” him more when he did.


I don't get that vibe at all. In fact, I think Tom has steeled himself to take an awful lot. Tom doesn't really lose control.


+1
And he would never hit Shiv. He's actually very chivalrous with her.


His chivalry is what's making him hot.


DP but he hit her in the last episode in the face / ear. Were you snoozing ?