Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

That’s not true. Ignoring SOs, you can make more than a third year (maybe equal to a third year with bonus) at the SEC.

Third years at top firms can make $350 with bonus. No sec employee comes close to that.

And mid level associates make WAY more than any sec employee, even on a per hour basis. AND they get to ad hoc and don’t have to write stupid emails every week that go nowhere. (They of course account for their time, but there’s an actual purpose for that; it’s not intended to demean or humiliate anyone).

AND they’re not hyper specialized and thus have better exit options.

$350k is very high for a third year. You’d have to be at a firm that isn’t lockstep with bonuses and have worked like crazy.

Market salary is $260k and bonus was $57.5k, so above what a sec lawyer can make but not by a ton and way lower than $350k. Also, remember, by third year, the lower ends of Biglaw start to not pay market salaries and have lower and/or stricter requirements for bonuses.

It’s very unlikely a third-year (or most associates) are making more on an hourly basis than a maxed out SK-16/17.Plus, for a lot of people, once you are making a good living, every extra hour above a certain point can be pretty painful and lots of people would take less pay for fewer hours.

You are right about the email. Can’t argue there. But I’d say most people would rather send a two minute email than have to record their time in six minute increments, even if one is pointless and one serves a purpose.

All the people who are complaining about no "ad hoc" telework at SEC, which units are you in? My wife's unit is allowing ad hoc telework for many reasons (e.g., work being done at the house, medical appointments, kid related issues). She went back in early March (is a manager) and I'd say she has TW'd anywhere between 10 and 15 days already. Maybe it's not the agency as a whole and just your managers who aren't allowing it because they don't wan to, but I know for a fact that it isn't across the board.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Yeah, for the stability, job security, predictability, some semblance of respect Gone, gone, gone, and gone.

No one has gotten fired. The chances of RIF don’t seem that high and, in terms of respect, outside of telework things haven’t really changed.

It’s still more stable, secure, and predictable than most jobs, and I’d say most bosses are more respectful of your time and personal needs than you would generally find in the private sector.

If you think it is that bad, maybe you should be gone, gone, gone.

Indeed. I agree. Have been very impressed with mgmt’s transparency and empathy. For example, private sector firms and CEOs could learn a lot from the last townhall, where mgmt layed out in detail the direction of the agency, likely reorganizations, and what future HR policies will entail. And then took a barrage of tough questions from staff.

That’s quite the goalpost shift. We were talking about stability, predictability and security, not empathy, transparency or the town hall.

How about simple decency and common sense / mgmt 101? Even the worse run corporations and law firms tell their employees what’s going on.

Not before final decisions are made.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Yeah, for the stability, job security, predictability, some semblance of respect Gone, gone, gone, and gone.

No one has gotten fired. The chances of RIF don’t seem that high and, in terms of respect, outside of telework things haven’t really changed.

It’s still more stable, secure, and predictable than most jobs, and I’d say most bosses are more respectful of your time and personal needs than you would generally find in the private sector.

If you think it is that bad, maybe you should be gone, gone, gone.

Indeed. I agree. Have been very impressed with mgmt’s transparency and empathy. For example, private sector firms and CEOs could learn a lot from the last townhall, where mgmt layed out in detail the direction of the agency, likely reorganizations, and what future HR policies will entail. And then took a barrage of tough questions from staff.

That’s quite the goalpost shift. We were talking about stability, predictability and security, not empathy, transparency or the town hall.

How about simple decency and common sense / mgmt 101? Even the worse run corporations and law firms tell their employees what’s going on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Yeah, for the stability, job security, predictability, some semblance of respect Gone, gone, gone, and gone.

No one has gotten fired. The chances of RIF don’t seem that high and, in terms of respect, outside of telework things haven’t really changed.

It’s still more stable, secure, and predictable than most jobs, and I’d say most bosses are more respectful of your time and personal needs than you would generally find in the private sector.

If you think it is that bad, maybe you should be gone, gone, gone.

Indeed. I agree. Have been very impressed with mgmt’s transparency and empathy. For example, private sector firms and CEOs could learn a lot from the last townhall, where mgmt layed out in detail the direction of the agency, likely reorganizations, and what future HR policies will entail. And then took a barrage of tough questions from staff.

That’s quite the goalpost shift. We were talking about stability, predictability and security, not empathy, transparency or the town hall.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Yeah, for the stability, job security, predictability, some semblance of respect Gone, gone, gone, and gone.

No one has gotten fired. The chances of RIF don’t seem that high and, in terms of respect, outside of telework things haven’t really changed.

It’s still more stable, secure, and predictable than most jobs, and I’d say most bosses are more respectful of your time and personal needs than you would generally find in the private sector.

If you think it is that bad, maybe you should be gone, gone, gone.

Indeed. I agree. Have been very impressed with mgmt’s transparency and empathy. For example, private sector firms and CEOs could learn a lot from the last townhall, where mgmt layed out in detail the direction of the agency, likely reorganizations, and what future HR policies will entail. And then took a barrage of tough questions from staff.

Sorry - disregard post. I was applying in the wrong thread. Thought it was a different agency. Obviously.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Yeah, for the stability, job security, predictability, some semblance of respect Gone, gone, gone, and gone.

No one has gotten fired. The chances of RIF don’t seem that high and, in terms of respect, outside of telework things haven’t really changed.

It’s still more stable, secure, and predictable than most jobs, and I’d say most bosses are more respectful of your time and personal needs than you would generally find in the private sector.

If you think it is that bad, maybe you should be gone, gone, gone.

Indeed. I agree. Have been very impressed with mgmt’s transparency and empathy. For example, private sector firms and CEOs could learn a lot from the last townhall, where mgmt layed out in detail the direction of the agency, likely reorganizations, and what future HR policies will entail. And then took a barrage of tough questions from staff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Yeah, for the stability, job security, predictability, some semblance of respect Gone, gone, gone, and gone.

No one has gotten fired. The chances of RIF don’t seem that high and, in terms of respect, outside of telework things haven’t really changed.

It’s still more stable, secure, and predictable than most jobs, and I’d say most bosses are more respectful of your time and personal needs than you would generally find in the private sector.

If you think it is that bad, maybe you should be gone, gone, gone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

More flexibility in BigLaw? Have you ever worked in Biglaw.

You have more flexibility to TW at most firms, but in absolutely every other respect, flexibility is way less.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Yeah, for the stability, job security, predictability, some semblance of respect Gone, gone, gone, and gone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Exactly. Anyone who voluntarily leaves biglaw (or inhouse) for this is a moron and will seriously regret it. Grass is NOT greener.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

We can make more money and get more flexibility at big law now. What’s the draw to make less and be treated like a child?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

Most SEC employees don’t want to work in BigLaw. They left BigLaw for a reason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the agency still doing 5 bullets????? Who exactly is requiring that?

Atkins is requiring. The emails clearly state that the agency is telling you to do it. So just do it and give it a rest with something that takes less than two minutes.

The question is WHY. There are a LOT of things that “take less than two minutes,” but that doesn’t make it right or moral to require.

So, instead of deflecting, why just just explain (1) WHY it’s required, and (2) whether it’s PA himself who’s requiring or someone else?

You consider this immoral? Get a grip.

I don’t know why precisely he has made this decision, just like I don’t know precisely why he or anyone else makes most of their decisions. Maybe it is because he determined it’s not worth picking a fight with the administration over this or maybe there is some other reason.

I don’t really care and neither should you.

Anything else that you’d do for two minutes so as “not to pick a fight”? Pathetic.

Most people in my office stopped doing this weeks ago. We’re still here. It’s a miracle we weren’t terminated!

No wonder they impose these things — They know they can get away with it bc there are so many low-agency scaredy cat lemmings who are Feds.

Ouchy! You called me names and now I am sad 🥲.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

I was at a different agency pre-COVID, where TW wasn't allowed. During flu season, we used leave and went back when we were able to handle going back. Some showed up to work with a cold or the flu. [No one wore masks at any point.] Problem with this argument is that there are lots of counterarguments. The TW flexibility was a privilege and not everyone received it equally. Because it is being taken away today, we seem to be having a visceral reaction to it--kind of like giving your teen a phone and social media and then taking it away.

Ok but we are talking about a particular agency. And in addition to the SEC, I have been at another agency and at private law firm and I can tell you that no one at any of those places hesitated to ad hoc telework when recovering. And that was with no formal telework policy in place. So your pre covid experience is an outlier.

+1. All the people saying “but Wall Street and BigLaw are RTO - stop whining” are neglecting to mention that there, taking ad hoc telework is totally accepted and in most places not monitored at all.

This. Law firms might technically be RTO but they allow very liberal ad hoc. As long as you meet your billables, they don’t really care.

Plus, first year associates make more than the highest paid sec employee. Must be really depressing for sec lawyers — made a really poor life choice.

That’s not true. Ignoring SOs, you can make more than a third year (maybe equal to a third year with bonus) at the SEC.

Third years at top firms can make $350 with bonus. No sec employee comes close to that.

And mid level associates make WAY more than any sec employee, even on a per hour basis. AND they get to ad hoc and don’t have to write stupid emails every week that go nowhere. (They of course account for their time, but there’s an actual purpose for that; it’s not intended to demean or humiliate anyone).

AND they’re not hyper specialized and thus have better exit options.