Anonymous
08/08/2023 05:23
Subject: College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:“ UVA, UNC, Miami, BC, Wake all Cal level.”
Only at USNWR. In the real world, Berkeley is definitely a tier or two above those mentioned.
How do statements like this help your case ?
It is as though you insist on bringing just a knife to a gun fight.
If Berkeley is so superior academically, then why associate with the ordinaries of the ACC or the Big Ten or the Big 12 or the SEC as it is clear that Berkeley belongs in the Ivy League.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 05:18
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:FSU may have engaged the services of an investment banker (JP Morgan Chase) and a private equity (PE firm Sixth Street) firm to raise money as well as to have access to sufficient capital to first make a settlement offer and to have a sufficient show of capital to fund an expensive court battle (which is a great & often effective settlement strategy).
Agree with the first part but there is no way there will be investor money to fund this lawsuit. They will fund a settlement. The outcome is not good. You could not get anyone to fund -- except alums and even they don't have that kind of cash.
Agree, but a show of force is often enough to get folks to the table and engage on a reasonable level regarding a settlement.
A show of force? If FSU offers 1.2 billion it will be considered. If they want to borrow it or sell their rights to Wall Street for the money nobody cares. Still might not be agreed to.
Some of us deal in the real world where business decisions typically involve some degree of bargaining and compromise while others may choose a hard-headed fight to the death type approach.
sigh. You are playing checkers. Chess is the game. What do the ACC schools that can't go anywhere want? It is not money. Duke and BC are loaded. What they want is a power conference. In other words they do not want the dollars -- they want the conference. So go ahead and sue us. You can't move until the litigation is over and appeals are over. No conference would touch you. Best case you sue and three years later you can move because you won. But three years from now there may be no slots. You will be screwed. The ACC schools that can't get anywhere else are not going to be reasonable. Why would they. They have you over a barrel. You can't give them what they want. The ACC has to either expand or get taken by the SEC and Big10.
When I read statements like this, it is clear that you are--to use a word from your prior post--delusional.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 04:55
Subject: College Football--Big Ten Expansion
“ UVA, UNC, Miami, BC, Wake all Cal level.”
Only at USNWR. In the real world, Berkeley is definitely a tier or two above those mentioned.
Only at USNWR. In the real world, Berkeley is definitely a tier or two above those mentioned.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 04:23
Subject: College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Football is wrecking college sports. Time to separate it from everything else.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 01:26
Subject: College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Stanford and Cal joining ACC makes zero geographical sense. If I were Stanford I would hold out for Big 10 offer - that is only logical landing spots for Stanford
Anonymous
08/08/2023 00:44
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
sigh. You are playing checkers. Chess is the game. What do the ACC schools that can't go anywhere want? It is not money. Duke and BC are loaded. What they want is a power conference. In other words they do not want the dollars -- they want the conference. So go ahead and sue us. You can't move until the litigation is over and appeals are over. No conference would touch you. Best case you sue and three years later you can move because you won. But three years from now there may be no slots. You will be screwed. The ACC schools that can't get anywhere else are not going to be reasonable. Why would they. They have you over a barrel. You can't give them what they want. The ACC has to either expand or get taken by the SEC and Big10.
If Duke and BC are so loaded and want to be in a big conference so much they should have invested more in their football programs, particularly BC. The ACC exit fee is not the problem. It is the GOR. ESPN owns those rights. DUKE will enjoy playing basketball in the Big 12. BC does not need to be in a major conference in to win national championships in ice hockey. They are probably already spending the exit fee money they will get from FSU on ice hockey as I type this.
Anonymous
08/08/2023 00:00
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:FSU may have engaged the services of an investment banker (JP Morgan Chase) and a private equity (PE firm Sixth Street) firm to raise money as well as to have access to sufficient capital to first make a settlement offer and to have a sufficient show of capital to fund an expensive court battle (which is a great & often effective settlement strategy).
Agree with the first part but there is no way there will be investor money to fund this lawsuit. They will fund a settlement. The outcome is not good. You could not get anyone to fund -- except alums and even they don't have that kind of cash.
Agree, but a show of force is often enough to get folks to the table and engage on a reasonable level regarding a settlement.
A show of force? If FSU offers 1.2 billion it will be considered. If they want to borrow it or sell their rights to Wall Street for the money nobody cares. Still might not be agreed to.
Some of us deal in the real world where business decisions typically involve some degree of bargaining and compromise while others may choose a hard-headed fight to the death type approach.
sigh. You are playing checkers. Chess is the game. What do the ACC schools that can't go anywhere want? It is not money. Duke and BC are loaded. What they want is a power conference. In other words they do not want the dollars -- they want the conference. So go ahead and sue us. You can't move until the litigation is over and appeals are over. No conference would touch you. Best case you sue and three years later you can move because you won. But three years from now there may be no slots. You will be screwed. The ACC schools that can't get anywhere else are not going to be reasonable. Why would they. They have you over a barrel. You can't give them what they want. The ACC has to either expand or get taken by the SEC and Big10.
I'm pretty sure FSU is legitimately playing checkers though
Duke and BC are also schools that are more likely to end up in a Stanford and Cal situation. Neither have great football histories or followings and they are not especially large.
Anonymous
08/07/2023 23:54
Subject: College Football--Big Ten Expansion
The Big12 should invite Cal and Stanford ASAP and not give the ACC the chance. They need to solidify numbers as much as possible for the next time the B1G and SEC come looking. Both Stanford and Cal would be better than any of last year's 4 Big 12 additions too, so isn't like you'd be adding schools to the bottom of the conference.
From SI: "Stanford and California are not near the top of the viewership food chain. They’re also not at the bottom, with one compilation of 2022 football viewership data listing Cal as the 45th most-watched program in the nation and Stanford 47th. That still ranked ahead of 16 Power Five conference teams (20 if you count the 2023 Big 12 newcomers)."
From SI: "Stanford and California are not near the top of the viewership food chain. They’re also not at the bottom, with one compilation of 2022 football viewership data listing Cal as the 45th most-watched program in the nation and Stanford 47th. That still ranked ahead of 16 Power Five conference teams (20 if you count the 2023 Big 12 newcomers)."
Anonymous
08/07/2023 23:51
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The ACC is loaded with strong academic schools. Granted that Stanford & UCal-Berkeley are exceptional, but many ACC schools are outstanding with respect to academics.
Delusional. Stanford and Cal are several academic levels above all ACC schools. UVA, UNC, Miami, BC, etc.. aren't even close.
What I don't understand is that Stanford and Cal are loaded in endowment, those schools can reach into the fund to support the athletic department without any issues. They have so many "rich" alumni there. One would imagine that 30M/year is a drop in the bucket for Doordash CEO Tony Xu or Stanford Jerry Yang. Stanford and Cal don't need to join the ACC to get that kind of cash.
Stanford yes on above others. Cal not so much. UVA, UNC, Miami, BC, Wake all Cal level. No one in the Pac 12 was near Cal either. Closest was UCLA and Cal.
Schools will not -- not a one -- tap endowment for sports. It will never happen except for that part of the endowment that is for sports. And no there is no pool of alums at any school willing to guarantee 30 million a year. This is all fantasy.
The alums are shelling out that kind of NIL $$
Anonymous
08/07/2023 23:27
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some noise about Stanford & UCal-Berkeley having talks with the ACC and the Big 12. Probably true, but could be a ploy to motivate the Big Ten Conference to make an offer or both.
Stanford & Cal do not fit in with Big 12 culture and travelling to ACC opponents would be exhausting & expensive.
Wishful thinking on Cal and Stanford's part. They are not a cultural or academic fit with either conference.
I think ACC should take Stanford and Cal and then get ND. Or ND first then the others. after that they add 2-4 West Coast/adjacent schools.
Either that or the SEC should merge with the ACC in whole. I actually think this is what will happen but not this year.
Anonymous
08/07/2023 23:25
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:FSU may have engaged the services of an investment banker (JP Morgan Chase) and a private equity (PE firm Sixth Street) firm to raise money as well as to have access to sufficient capital to first make a settlement offer and to have a sufficient show of capital to fund an expensive court battle (which is a great & often effective settlement strategy).
Agree with the first part but there is no way there will be investor money to fund this lawsuit. They will fund a settlement. The outcome is not good. You could not get anyone to fund -- except alums and even they don't have that kind of cash.
Agree, but a show of force is often enough to get folks to the table and engage on a reasonable level regarding a settlement.
A show of force? If FSU offers 1.2 billion it will be considered. If they want to borrow it or sell their rights to Wall Street for the money nobody cares. Still might not be agreed to.
Some of us deal in the real world where business decisions typically involve some degree of bargaining and compromise while others may choose a hard-headed fight to the death type approach.
What bargaining power does FSU have to lower the amount of money the ACC gets if they leave ?
None.
Why would the ACC give away money ?
There is value in not having a noisy, multi-year legal battle with no idea what your budget will look like. A drawn out legal proceeding would also potentially dissuade others from joining and back filling the members leaving the conference. FSU and others are leaving. It will be messy and expensive for them but they are leaving.
Value to who? Not the stuck ACC schools. FSU can leave. But their media stays with the ACC so no conference will make an actual offer to them. They could get a conditional offer but that would buy a lawsuit from the ACC. Big10 will not get into litigation with another conference.
Anonymous
08/07/2023 23:23
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:FSU may have engaged the services of an investment banker (JP Morgan Chase) and a private equity (PE firm Sixth Street) firm to raise money as well as to have access to sufficient capital to first make a settlement offer and to have a sufficient show of capital to fund an expensive court battle (which is a great & often effective settlement strategy).
Agree with the first part but there is no way there will be investor money to fund this lawsuit. They will fund a settlement. The outcome is not good. You could not get anyone to fund -- except alums and even they don't have that kind of cash.
Agree, but a show of force is often enough to get folks to the table and engage on a reasonable level regarding a settlement.
A show of force? If FSU offers 1.2 billion it will be considered. If they want to borrow it or sell their rights to Wall Street for the money nobody cares. Still might not be agreed to.
Some of us deal in the real world where business decisions typically involve some degree of bargaining and compromise while others may choose a hard-headed fight to the death type approach.
sigh. You are playing checkers. Chess is the game. What do the ACC schools that can't go anywhere want? It is not money. Duke and BC are loaded. What they want is a power conference. In other words they do not want the dollars -- they want the conference. So go ahead and sue us. You can't move until the litigation is over and appeals are over. No conference would touch you. Best case you sue and three years later you can move because you won. But three years from now there may be no slots. You will be screwed. The ACC schools that can't get anywhere else are not going to be reasonable. Why would they. They have you over a barrel. You can't give them what they want. The ACC has to either expand or get taken by the SEC and Big10.
Anonymous
08/07/2023 23:18
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:FSU may have engaged the services of an investment banker (JP Morgan Chase) and a private equity (PE firm Sixth Street) firm to raise money as well as to have access to sufficient capital to first make a settlement offer and to have a sufficient show of capital to fund an expensive court battle (which is a great & often effective settlement strategy).
Agree with the first part but there is no way there will be investor money to fund this lawsuit. They will fund a settlement. The outcome is not good. You could not get anyone to fund -- except alums and even they don't have that kind of cash.
Agree, but a show of force is often enough to get folks to the table and engage on a reasonable level regarding a settlement.
Just think about nuclear weapons and its effect on behavior.
Yeah but here only the ACC has nukes --- it is 1945.
Anonymous
08/07/2023 23:16
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The ACC is loaded with strong academic schools. Granted that Stanford & UCal-Berkeley are exceptional, but many ACC schools are outstanding with respect to academics.
Delusional. Stanford and Cal are several academic levels above all ACC schools. UVA, UNC, Miami, BC, etc.. aren't even close.
What I don't understand is that Stanford and Cal are loaded in endowment, those schools can reach into the fund to support the athletic department without any issues. They have so many "rich" alumni there. One would imagine that 30M/year is a drop in the bucket for Doordash CEO Tony Xu or Stanford Jerry Yang. Stanford and Cal don't need to join the ACC to get that kind of cash.
Stanford yes on above others. Cal not so much. UVA, UNC, Miami, BC, Wake all Cal level. No one in the Pac 12 was near Cal either. Closest was UCLA and Cal.
Schools will not -- not a one -- tap endowment for sports. It will never happen except for that part of the endowment that is for sports. And no there is no pool of alums at any school willing to guarantee 30 million a year. This is all fantasy.
Anonymous
08/07/2023 22:55
Subject: College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Stanford will have options. The school that is really screwed is Cal - no leverage