Anonymous wrote:

Oooooh. I'm going to google those.

Here is Kamila at 8 or 9. already has all her triples and maturity uncommon at this age. It's as if her body has been designed for skating, limb by limb.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Though it should also be stated that Valieva was so heavily favored in this Olympics, before the doping scandal, because she is the rare skater who truly excels at both -- a phenomenal jumper with exquisite technique on all elements PLUS beautiful artistic qualities. One of the great losses of all this is that she is an extraordiarily talented and hard-working skater who is pushing the sport to new levels, and that would almost certainly have been true even if (presumably) her coaching staff were not doping her up. I wish we could have seen what she could have done with clean drug tests because we all lost something in what happened, not just Valieva and not just the Russians.

totally agree with you. I think she likely would have been an amazing skater without drugs. She just had talent in spades. What a damn shame all around.

But the thing is you CAN see what she's like. She has tested clean on multiple comps before. Her performances at age 8 or 9 are just stunning, and she wasn't even with Eteri back then.

Oooooh. I'm going to google those.

Holy cow- look at her at aged 5!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QViJduIx7Is

Anonymous wrote:

Uninteresting? She's a Grade A B!t$h that skated to the Cruella Deville theme song. She is the epitome of the stereotype of a Russian woman.

This pp is heartless. These children are puppets. I finally watched their performances on the ice and after. Three medalists in shambles, and a 15 year old who should be immediately shrouded from those who did this to her. The only chance this child has is to tell her story, and expose whoever drugged her. Coaches, parents, grandparents...don't care. It's her only chance to free herself from connection to the regime. The world will support her and lift her out of this hell.

This press person, a random stranger, protected her when the "machine" didn't.
https://currently.att.yahoo.com/sports/olympic-figure-skater-kamila-valieva-was-failed-by-the-system-adults-170245056.html

The articlenotes two people showed up dead after the doping scandal of 2014. The skaters must fear for their lives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is Trusova’s complaint?

That five landed quads were not enough to win a gold medal.

Sorry I’m late to this part of the discussion but what’s the consensus on her point — comparing the skates of the gold and silver winners?

The point system obviously encourages doing the toughest tricks possible to rack up those points

But there IS still an artistic component, which her teammates beat her on.

I mean, the crazy amount of quads strategy could have worked. But, much like Surya Bonaly back in the day, skating isn't just jumps alone and she needs to at least TRY to throw in a LITTLE artistic expression

At least she was all on-brand. Very La Femme Nikkita. I expected her to pull out a gun with a silencer at the end and take out a judge.

Anonymous wrote:Can any of the US women do a quad or is this just a Russian women thing? I mean they are so physically demanding--to do 5 in one skate and most of them in the 2nd half, that is just insane. I do think whoever governs international figure skating scoring should revaluate the bonus awarded for doing a quad in the 2nd half. It's just grueling--why not just go back to the old version of judging on technical and artistic merit and if you can do a quad great--if not maybe you do 4 triples and that equals doing 2 quads. this obsession with quads is crazy

Alysa Liu was the first US female skater to land a quad in competition. It happened in 2019 and hasn't happened by her since because she grew. I'm not sure she still has it, tbh. I don't believe any other US female skaters have a quad in their arsenals of skills.

I will see if I can find it, but I read a fantastic article on why US female skaters don't have the quad. It boiled down to US skating keeping female skaters dainty and feminine, so they lacked the athleticism and muscle needed to land quads. Now that they are very important to the higher scores, the hope for the US is on the shoulders of younger skaters just starting out. Their training needs to include even more strength training to build them up to be strong enough to land the quad and have it in their skillset.

The article also pointed out how US women's gymnastics had the same issue with trying to keep gymnasts dainty and feminine looking. They didn't want the female gymnasts to appear too muscular or toned. The switch to "allowing" more muscular and powerful women gymnasts happened in the 90s, I believe the article stated. After Retton in the 80s, the US women didn't really start dominating gymnastics until the 90s when the switch started to happen.

For example, the 1988 US Women's Olympic Gymnastics team:

Very dainty and feminine looking.

The 1996 US Women's Olympic Gymnastics team:

Much more visibly muscular.

And of course now, the women gymnasts are absolute beasts who dominate!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Though it should also be stated that Valieva was so heavily favored in this Olympics, before the doping scandal, because she is the rare skater who truly excels at both -- a phenomenal jumper with exquisite technique on all elements PLUS beautiful artistic qualities. One of the great losses of all this is that she is an extraordiarily talented and hard-working skater who is pushing the sport to new levels, and that would almost certainly have been true even if (presumably) her coaching staff were not doping her up. I wish we could have seen what she could have done with clean drug tests because we all lost something in what happened, not just Valieva and not just the Russians.

totally agree with you. I think she likely would have been an amazing skater without drugs. She just had talent in spades. What a damn shame all around.

But the thing is you CAN see what she's like. She has tested clean on multiple comps before. Her performances at age 8 or 9 are just stunning, and she wasn't even with Eteri back then.

Oooooh. I'm going to google those.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Though it should also be stated that Valieva was so heavily favored in this Olympics, before the doping scandal, because she is the rare skater who truly excels at both -- a phenomenal jumper with exquisite technique on all elements PLUS beautiful artistic qualities. One of the great losses of all this is that she is an extraordiarily talented and hard-working skater who is pushing the sport to new levels, and that would almost certainly have been true even if (presumably) her coaching staff were not doping her up. I wish we could have seen what she could have done with clean drug tests because we all lost something in what happened, not just Valieva and not just the Russians.

totally agree with you. I think she likely would have been an amazing skater without drugs. She just had talent in spades. What a damn shame all around.

But the thing is you CAN see what she's like. She has tested clean on multiple comps before. Her performances at age 8 or 9 are just stunning, and she wasn't even with Eteri back then.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can any of the US women do a quad or is this just a Russian women thing? I mean they are so physically demanding--to do 5 in one skate and most of them in the 2nd half, that is just insane. I do think whoever governs international figure skating scoring should revaluate the bonus awarded for doing a quad in the 2nd half. It's just grueling--why not just go back to the old version of judging on technical and artistic merit and if you can do a quad great--if not maybe you do 4 triples and that equals doing 2 quads. this obsession with quads is crazy

Not consistently and not perfectly. But I suspect we'll get there. The US uses older techniques which aren't as good. We don't need to abuse tweens to win, but I do think there is runway for the the US skaters to improve.

except, ARE the techniques good? The push to do quads in Russia is destroying young bodies. And they are likely doping and underfeeding their girls to get them. Is this really what we want?

I think Alysa has done quads, but with her growing, it may not happen.

I honestly think we need to lay off the quads. There is just a limit to what these young women should be doing to their bodies.

If the nature of the quad is such that it can only be performed by an underfed body, then they must be stopped or at the very least not encouraged.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is Trusova’s complaint?

That five landed quads were not enough to win a gold medal.

Sorry I’m late to this part of the discussion but what’s the consensus on her point — comparing the skates of the gold and silver winners?

The point system obviously encourages doing the toughest tricks possible to rack up those points

But there IS still an artistic component, which her teammates beat her on.

I mean, the crazy amount of quads strategy could have worked. But, much like Surya Bonaly back in the day, skating isn't just jumps alone and she needs to at least TRY to throw in a LITTLE artistic expression

That’s an unfair comparison. Surya Bonali’s showmanship was off the charts. You could tell she put feeling into every performance. She just didn’t fit the “waif ballerina on ice” mold.

Surya tried to be more artistic as her career progressed, yes. But, early on, it was just a series of jumping passes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can any of the US women do a quad or is this just a Russian women thing? I mean they are so physically demanding--to do 5 in one skate and most of them in the 2nd half, that is just insane. I do think whoever governs international figure skating scoring should revaluate the bonus awarded for doing a quad in the 2nd half. It's just grueling--why not just go back to the old version of judging on technical and artistic merit and if you can do a quad great--if not maybe you do 4 triples and that equals doing 2 quads. this obsession with quads is crazy

Not consistently and not perfectly. But I suspect we'll get there. The US uses older techniques which aren't as good. We don't need to abuse tweens to win, but I do think there is runway for the the US skaters to improve.

except, ARE the techniques good? The push to do quads in Russia is destroying young bodies. And they are likely doping and underfeeding their girls to get them. Is this really what we want?

I think Alysa has done quads, but with her growing, it may not happen.

I honestly think we need to lay off the quads. There is just a limit to what these young women should be doing to their bodies.

Alysa hasn't done quads as a senior. She's grown a lot since she did them, so it may never happen.

Yes. Alysa lost her jumps after an injury and a growth spurt and hasn't done a quad in competition since. Sasha Cohen landed a few quads but only in practice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is Trusova’s complaint?

That five landed quads were not enough to win a gold medal.

Sorry I’m late to this part of the discussion but what’s the consensus on her point — comparing the skates of the gold and silver winners?

The point system obviously encourages doing the toughest tricks possible to rack up those points

But there IS still an artistic component, which her teammates beat her on.

I mean, the crazy amount of quads strategy could have worked. But, much like Surya Bonaly back in the day, skating isn't just jumps alone and she needs to at least TRY to throw in a LITTLE artistic expression

That’s an unfair comparison. Surya Bonali’s showmanship was off the charts. You could tell she put feeling into every performance. She just didn’t fit the “waif ballerina on ice” mold.

For those wondering, here's an article about Khorkina's political career and an interview with her.

https://eng.gymnovosti.com/khorkina-its-a-pity-that-ussr-broke-down/

Anonymous wrote:

Though it should also be stated that Valieva was so heavily favored in this Olympics, before the doping scandal, because she is the rare skater who truly excels at both -- a phenomenal jumper with exquisite technique on all elements PLUS beautiful artistic qualities. One of the great losses of all this is that she is an extraordiarily talented and hard-working skater who is pushing the sport to new levels, and that would almost certainly have been true even if (presumably) her coaching staff were not doping her up. I wish we could have seen what she could have done with clean drug tests because we all lost something in what happened, not just Valieva and not just the Russians.

totally agree with you. I think she likely would have been an amazing skater without drugs. She just had talent in spades. What a damn shame all around.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can any of the US women do a quad or is this just a Russian women thing? I mean they are so physically demanding--to do 5 in one skate and most of them in the 2nd half, that is just insane. I do think whoever governs international figure skating scoring should revaluate the bonus awarded for doing a quad in the 2nd half. It's just grueling--why not just go back to the old version of judging on technical and artistic merit and if you can do a quad great--if not maybe you do 4 triples and that equals doing 2 quads. this obsession with quads is crazy

Not consistently and not perfectly. But I suspect we'll get there. The US uses older techniques which aren't as good. We don't need to abuse tweens to win, but I do think there is runway for the the US skaters to improve.

except, ARE the techniques good? The push to do quads in Russia is destroying young bodies. And they are likely doping and underfeeding their girls to get them. Is this really what we want?

I think Alysa has done quads, but with her growing, it may not happen.

I honestly think we need to lay off the quads. There is just a limit to what these young women should be doing to their bodies.

I think adult athletes should pursue whatever goals they want.

I think our obsession with having children compete in figure skating and gymnastics in order to avoid the body changes that girls go through in their late teens and early 20s is messed up. It's not so much that it's wrong to pursue a quad -- the men (who are older and don't have the same schedule of puberty development) do it and it's fine. It's that the Russians and others who are determined to get women doing quads don't work with women -- they work with small children and they work AGAINST the normal and inevitable development of those children's bodies.

Women should have to be 18 to compete at the international level and there should be far more investigation/enforcement of training conditions for underage skaters. This is abuse, pure and simple.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can any of the US women do a quad or is this just a Russian women thing? I mean they are so physically demanding--to do 5 in one skate and most of them in the 2nd half, that is just insane. I do think whoever governs international figure skating scoring should revaluate the bonus awarded for doing a quad in the 2nd half. It's just grueling--why not just go back to the old version of judging on technical and artistic merit and if you can do a quad great--if not maybe you do 4 triples and that equals doing 2 quads. this obsession with quads is crazy

Not consistently and not perfectly. But I suspect we'll get there. The US uses older techniques which aren't as good. We don't need to abuse tweens to win, but I do think there is runway for the the US skaters to improve.

except, ARE the techniques good? The push to do quads in Russia is destroying young bodies. And they are likely doping and underfeeding their girls to get them. Is this really what we want?

I think Alysa has done quads, but with her growing, it may not happen.

I honestly think we need to lay off the quads. There is just a limit to what these young women should be doing to their bodies.

I think, and you can see it in gymnastics, that you can actually push limits and do so in a healthy way. I think the most recent women's gymnastics team is a great example of that- the average age was 20, which is far older than it ever was in the Karolyi etra.