Such a horrible situation. After listening to the latest news on Channel 4 Detroit, I was struck by how similar the guidance counselors in this case compared to the police who stopped Brian Laundry and Gabby Petition. Only in this case, the counselors were presumably trained more in looking for warning signs associated with people on the verge.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2021/12/05/school-threat-investigations-in-wayne-county-lead-to-charges-against-7-minors/

There was a report that the disturbing drawing was “updated” after the teacher saw it and reported it, prior to the meeting with the parents. The school did many things right. Probably more things than most large HS’s in this country would’ve done. Teacher reported the note and the school admin called for urgent, immediate meeting with parents. But the drawing changed before the meeting and the enabling/head-in-the sand parents pushed back on taking kid home. He had no prior disciplinary issues.Where the school failed IMHO 1.) didn’t ask whether they had guns in their home that were currently accounted for and 2.) didn’t insist on searching kids backpack and locker before sending back to class.

I agree the families that lost their children should be compensated through the civil suits that will likely follow.I hope that monies will be found to outfit every HS with metal detectors to avoid future gun violence in schools. This HS did many things right but it still wasn’t enough to prevent this tragedy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, every rationale possible is being used by the PPs in this thread to excuse the gun owners and their kid (the shooter) passing the blame to anyone else.

Not true. I blame:

The kid
The parents (maybe even more than the kid)
The school admin (for not calling police/searching the bag/sending the kid home)
The laws for giving this kid more rights than his fellow students.

I can blame many things at once. An absolutely tragedy that could have been prevented so many ways.

Tell me what rights this kid has that other kids do not. Name one.

You can't because this kid has no more rights than anyone else.

This kid has no more rights than any other kid. You sound like one of those insane anti-public school LCPS haters nutjobs. You are ignorant and don't understand the laws related to education. BTW if you are the same poster blaming IDEA and FAPE, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. FAPE AND IDEA have nothing to do with what happened with this kid and would not stop the school from sending the kid home.

So much ignorance posted here.

The push for the rights of troubled kids absolutely are the reason this kid was not told to go home with his parents. It’s the reason they were allowed to “decline” to take him home. And why the school didn’t search him. Schools searched lockers and bags all the time when we were kids. All they needed was an anonymous tip.

NP. How, precisely, is a school administrator supposed to force a parent to take a child home if that parent declines. Please explain with precision how that works both legally and logistically.

They can’t anymore. But year ago, they had a lot more leeway to suspend a student, and search them.

+1 Also, many of the most troubled kids attended separate schools in years past. If parents really knew the documented backgrounds and behavioral history vlof some of the emotionally disturbed students walking around middle and high school campuses, they would be shocked.

So none of you can answer the basic question of how, in years past, administrators used to force parents to remove children from the school when the parents refused, yet you are all positive this used to happen regularly. Got it.

He could have been kept in an administrative office. I've seen it done before for in-school suspensions. That, and his locker and backpack. He gave up his right to privacy when he made his artwork.

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I’m really struggling on this. I’ve heard of schools calling the cops on 5/6 year old black kids, putting hand cuffs on them cause they can’t control them and such….but this kid gets to hang out at the school after clearly threatening to shoot it up? Then he shoots it and the police apprehend him with no shots fired after he kills 3 three and injures countless others, but the cops roll up on Tamir Rice and kill him within 5 seconds and he hadn’t killed anyone.

I agree with these, the school could have done more and they will likely face at least civil lawsuits as they should.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, every rationale possible is being used by the PPs in this thread to excuse the gun owners and their kid (the shooter) passing the blame to anyone else.

Not true. I blame:

The kid
The parents (maybe even more than the kid)
The school admin (for not calling police/searching the bag/sending the kid home)
The laws for giving this kid more rights than his fellow students.

I can blame many things at once. An absolutely tragedy that could have been prevented so many ways.

Tell me what rights this kid has that other kids do not. Name one.

You can't because this kid has no more rights than anyone else.

This kid has no more rights than any other kid. You sound like one of those insane anti-public school LCPS haters nutjobs. You are ignorant and don't understand the laws related to education. BTW if you are the same poster blaming IDEA and FAPE, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. FAPE AND IDEA have nothing to do with what happened with this kid and would not stop the school from sending the kid home.

So much ignorance posted here.

The push for the rights of troubled kids absolutely are the reason this kid was not told to go home with his parents. It’s the reason they were allowed to “decline” to take him home. And why the school didn’t search him. Schools searched lockers and bags all the time when we were kids. All they needed was an anonymous tip.

NP. How, precisely, is a school administrator supposed to force a parent to take a child home if that parent declines. Please explain with precision how that works both legally and logistically.

They can’t anymore. But year ago, they had a lot more leeway to suspend a student, and search them.

+1 Also, many of the most troubled kids attended separate schools in years past. If parents really knew the documented backgrounds and behavioral history vlof some of the emotionally disturbed students walking around middle and high school campuses, they would be shocked.

So none of you can answer the basic question of how, in years past, administrators used to force parents to remove children from the school when the parents refused, yet you are all positive this used to happen regularly. Got it.

He could have been kept in an administrative office. I've seen it done before for in-school suspensions. That, and his locker and backpack. He gave up his right to privacy when he made his artwork.

Yeah I’m really struggling on this. I’ve heard of schools calling the cops on 5/6 year old black kids, putting hand cuffs on them cause they can’t control them and such….but this kid gets to hang out at the school after clearly threatening to shoot it up? Then he shoots it and the police apprehend him with no shots fired after he kills 3 three and injures countless others, but the cops roll up on Tamir Rice and kill him within 5 seconds and he hadn’t killed anyone.

Anonymous wrote:Oxford High School has a full-time school resource officer, who is a sworn Oakland County sheriff's deputy. There was no need to "call the police," the resource officer literally has an office in the school, presumably mere feet from the principal's office where these meetings took place. The high school brass, for whatever reason, did not loop the deputy into any of this. That is pure negligence.

"Like many schools across the country, Oxford High School has a police officer assigned to patrol its halls and campus. On Tuesday, according to a law enforcement official, that deputy and a responding deputy disarmed and arrested a 15-year-old student."

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/11/30/oxford-high-shooting-police-school-liaison-officer/8813723002/

Why wasn't this deputy looped into the documented violent psych issues of the kid, calls to the parents, and the two meetings with the kid and the other with his parents? The deputy was INTENTIONALLY not looped in and not included in the meetings. The district is so screwed in a civil suit.

Anonymous wrote:
Anyone else befuddled that those who cry "nanny state!" suddenly want the school held accountable? Which one is it???

Duh—they are not the same posters!

I am for the school and parents being held accountable, and I think a government’s job is to protect its citizens (including from Americans with guns!!)

Oxford High School has a full-time school resource officer, who is a sworn Oakland County sheriff's deputy. There was no need to "call the police," the resource officer literally has an office in the school, presumably mere feet from the principal's office where these meetings took place. The high school brass, for whatever reason, did not loop the deputy into any of this. That is pure negligence.

Anonymous wrote:
Anyone else befuddled that those who cry "nanny state!" suddenly want the school held accountable? Which one is it???

Michigan is not like VA and MD with county-wide district leaders. Each and every school boundary in Michigan has its own staff of bureaucrats and their own school board. A fiefdom of six-figure salary jefes and a school board controls tiny Oxford's 7,000 students and 2,000 high school. A dozen plus administration brass making $100,000 to $205,000 plus a year in wages alone to run a handful of schools. These so-called experts all have bachelor's, master's, and even doctorate degrees. This is why they're paid the big bucks. They all dropped the ball. I safely assume the most famous civil attorney in Michigan, Geoffrey Feiger -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Fieger -- will have a press conference next week announcing he's suing the district for a nine figure sum on behalf of the shooting victims and any students present at the high school that day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, every rationale possible is being used by the PPs in this thread to excuse the gun owners and their kid (the shooter) passing the blame to anyone else.

Not true. I blame:

The kid
The parents (maybe even more than the kid)
The school admin (for not calling police/searching the bag/sending the kid home)
The laws for giving this kid more rights than his fellow students.

I can blame many things at once. An absolutely tragedy that could have been prevented so many ways.

Tell me what rights this kid has that other kids do not. Name one.

You can't because this kid has no more rights than anyone else.

This kid has no more rights than any other kid. You sound like one of those insane anti-public school LCPS haters nutjobs. You are ignorant and don't understand the laws related to education. BTW if you are the same poster blaming IDEA and FAPE, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. FAPE AND IDEA have nothing to do with what happened with this kid and would not stop the school from sending the kid home.

So much ignorance posted here.

The push for the rights of troubled kids absolutely are the reason this kid was not told to go home with his parents. It’s the reason they were allowed to “decline” to take him home. And why the school didn’t search him. Schools searched lockers and bags all the time when we were kids. All they needed was an anonymous tip.

NP. How, precisely, is a school administrator supposed to force a parent to take a child home if that parent declines. Please explain with precision how that works both legally and logistically.

They can’t anymore. But year ago, they had a lot more leeway to suspend a student, and search them.

Okay then, years ago during this golden time that you think existed, how precisely would they have forced a parent to remove a child if the parent declined to take the child. You keep insisting there was a time when administration could do that. I want to know exactly that happened.

It’s already been answered. If the parents won’t, call 911. Danger to self and others. Trespassing. No parental consent required.

Hahahaha OMG. No, the police did not used to be at the heck and call of school administrators. What an idiot you are.

I'm a retired educator. Yes, the police did come and remove high school students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, every rationale possible is being used by the PPs in this thread to excuse the gun owners and their kid (the shooter) passing the blame to anyone else.

Not true. I blame:

The kid
The parents (maybe even more than the kid)
The school admin (for not calling police/searching the bag/sending the kid home)
The laws for giving this kid more rights than his fellow students.

I can blame many things at once. An absolutely tragedy that could have been prevented so many ways.

Tell me what rights this kid has that other kids do not. Name one.

You can't because this kid has no more rights than anyone else.

This kid has no more rights than any other kid. You sound like one of those insane anti-public school LCPS haters nutjobs. You are ignorant and don't understand the laws related to education. BTW if you are the same poster blaming IDEA and FAPE, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. FAPE AND IDEA have nothing to do with what happened with this kid and would not stop the school from sending the kid home.

So much ignorance posted here.

The push for the rights of troubled kids absolutely are the reason this kid was not told to go home with his parents. It’s the reason they were allowed to “decline” to take him home. And why the school didn’t search him. Schools searched lockers and bags all the time when we were kids. All they needed was an anonymous tip.

NP. How, precisely, is a school administrator supposed to force a parent to take a child home if that parent declines. Please explain with precision how that works both legally and logistically.

They can’t anymore. But year ago, they had a lot more leeway to suspend a student, and search them.

Okay then, years ago during this golden time that you think existed, how precisely would they have forced a parent to remove a child if the parent declined to take the child. You keep insisting there was a time when administration could do that. I want to know exactly that happened.

It’s already been answered. If the parents won’t, call 911. Danger to self and others. Trespassing. No parental consent required.

Hahahaha OMG. No, the police did not used to be at the heck and call of school administrators. What an idiot you are.

No, honey. The idiots are the ones defending the school district and handwringing saying “but what else could they doooooooo?”

They are going to lose a MASSIVE civil suit and it will be well deserved.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, every rationale possible is being used by the PPs in this thread to excuse the gun owners and their kid (the shooter) passing the blame to anyone else.

Not true. I blame:

The kid
The parents (maybe even more than the kid)
The school admin (for not calling police/searching the bag/sending the kid home)
The laws for giving this kid more rights than his fellow students.

I can blame many things at once. An absolutely tragedy that could have been prevented so many ways.

Tell me what rights this kid has that other kids do not. Name one.

You can't because this kid has no more rights than anyone else.

This kid has no more rights than any other kid. You sound like one of those insane anti-public school LCPS haters nutjobs. You are ignorant and don't understand the laws related to education. BTW if you are the same poster blaming IDEA and FAPE, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. FAPE AND IDEA have nothing to do with what happened with this kid and would not stop the school from sending the kid home.

So much ignorance posted here.

The push for the rights of troubled kids absolutely are the reason this kid was not told to go home with his parents. It’s the reason they were allowed to “decline” to take him home. And why the school didn’t search him. Schools searched lockers and bags all the time when we were kids. All they needed was an anonymous tip.

NP. How, precisely, is a school administrator supposed to force a parent to take a child home if that parent declines. Please explain with precision how that works both legally and logistically.

They can’t anymore. But year ago, they had a lot more leeway to suspend a student, and search them.

Okay then, years ago during this golden time that you think existed, how precisely would they have forced a parent to remove a child if the parent declined to take the child. You keep insisting there was a time when administration could do that. I want to know exactly that happened.

First of all, most parents didn't recuse a school's request. Also, parents knew they didn't really have the option to decline. "Ma'am, if you don't remove your son from the premises, we'll call the police; and you can pick him up at the station. Your choice."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, every rationale possible is being used by the PPs in this thread to excuse the gun owners and their kid (the shooter) passing the blame to anyone else.

Not true. I blame:

The kid
The parents (maybe even more than the kid)
The school admin (for not calling police/searching the bag/sending the kid home)
The laws for giving this kid more rights than his fellow students.

I can blame many things at once. An absolutely tragedy that could have been prevented so many ways.

Tell me what rights this kid has that other kids do not. Name one.

You can't because this kid has no more rights than anyone else.

This kid has no more rights than any other kid. You sound like one of those insane anti-public school LCPS haters nutjobs. You are ignorant and don't understand the laws related to education. BTW if you are the same poster blaming IDEA and FAPE, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. FAPE AND IDEA have nothing to do with what happened with this kid and would not stop the school from sending the kid home.

So much ignorance posted here.

The push for the rights of troubled kids absolutely are the reason this kid was not told to go home with his parents. It’s the reason they were allowed to “decline” to take him home. And why the school didn’t search him. Schools searched lockers and bags all the time when we were kids. All they needed was an anonymous tip.

NP. How, precisely, is a school administrator supposed to force a parent to take a child home if that parent declines. Please explain with precision how that works both legally and logistically.

They can’t anymore. But year ago, they had a lot more leeway to suspend a student, and search them.

Okay then, years ago during this golden time that you think existed, how precisely would they have forced a parent to remove a child if the parent declined to take the child. You keep insisting there was a time when administration could do that. I want to know exactly that happened.

It’s already been answered. If the parents won’t, call 911. Danger to self and others. Trespassing. No parental consent required.

Hahahaha OMG. No, the police did not used to be at the heck and call of school administrators. What an idiot you are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, every rationale possible is being used by the PPs in this thread to excuse the gun owners and their kid (the shooter) passing the blame to anyone else.

Not true. I blame:

The kid
The parents (maybe even more than the kid)
The school admin (for not calling police/searching the bag/sending the kid home)
The laws for giving this kid more rights than his fellow students.

I can blame many things at once. An absolutely tragedy that could have been prevented so many ways.

Tell me what rights this kid has that other kids do not. Name one.

You can't because this kid has no more rights than anyone else.

This kid has no more rights than any other kid. You sound like one of those insane anti-public school LCPS haters nutjobs. You are ignorant and don't understand the laws related to education. BTW if you are the same poster blaming IDEA and FAPE, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. FAPE AND IDEA have nothing to do with what happened with this kid and would not stop the school from sending the kid home.

So much ignorance posted here.

The push for the rights of troubled kids absolutely are the reason this kid was not told to go home with his parents. It’s the reason they were allowed to “decline” to take him home. And why the school didn’t search him. Schools searched lockers and bags all the time when we were kids. All they needed was an anonymous tip.

NP. How, precisely, is a school administrator supposed to force a parent to take a child home if that parent declines. Please explain with precision how that works both legally and logistically.

Suspend him for the safety of the student body and if they leave without him, he’s trespassing. Call. The. Police.

Are you really this simple?

What bizarre fantasy world are you living in? This never happened, not even in whatever imaginary world you think used to exist.

Stick to reality, please.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, every rationale possible is being used by the PPs in this thread to excuse the gun owners and their kid (the shooter) passing the blame to anyone else.

Not true. I blame:

The kid
The parents (maybe even more than the kid)
The school admin (for not calling police/searching the bag/sending the kid home)
The laws for giving this kid more rights than his fellow students.

I can blame many things at once. An absolutely tragedy that could have been prevented so many ways.

Tell me what rights this kid has that other kids do not. Name one.

You can't because this kid has no more rights than anyone else.

This kid has no more rights than any other kid. You sound like one of those insane anti-public school LCPS haters nutjobs. You are ignorant and don't understand the laws related to education. BTW if you are the same poster blaming IDEA and FAPE, YOU ARE AN IDIOT. FAPE AND IDEA have nothing to do with what happened with this kid and would not stop the school from sending the kid home.

So much ignorance posted here.

The push for the rights of troubled kids absolutely are the reason this kid was not told to go home with his parents. It’s the reason they were allowed to “decline” to take him home. And why the school didn’t search him. Schools searched lockers and bags all the time when we were kids. All they needed was an anonymous tip.

NP. How, precisely, is a school administrator supposed to force a parent to take a child home if that parent declines. Please explain with precision how that works both legally and logistically.

They can’t anymore. But year ago, they had a lot more leeway to suspend a student, and search them.

Okay then, years ago during this golden time that you think existed, how precisely would they have forced a parent to remove a child if the parent declined to take the child. You keep insisting there was a time when administration could do that. I want to know exactly that happened.

It’s already been answered. If the parents won’t, call 911. Danger to self and others. Trespassing. No parental consent required.