Anonymous
07/08/2024 17:25
Subject: Re:Jen Hatmaker
I'm convinced that if 90s Purity Culture suddenly made a resurgence, she'd be the first one telling us to "value yourselves and your sexuality, dear ones! Save it for marriage!"
It would actually align nicely with a "value your body" message. But she can't abide that. Value your body enough not to hook up with every cute guy who takes you out to dinner, even if you really, really want to. Women have sex differently than men and their brains respond differently.
Anonymous
07/08/2024 16:20
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We can snark on Jen without pretending like purity culture isn’t real or harmful.
We can acknowledge that different people had different lived experiences. Geez….
Espousing that being a young woman raised in evangelical purity culture was not harmful is internalized misogyny, not a different lived experience. While this conversation is interesting and important, it’s not the right vibe for this forum. I’m also pretty sure it’s not the right vibe for Jen. For so many reasons listed here, she’s not someone whose opinion I highly value. She’s sold out too many times in too many directions and the narrative around the men in her family is in conflict with the one she’s selling her followers.
Lol. There are literally women on this thread saying they lived through evangelical purity culture and were not harmed. As for internalized misogyny; I highly doubt these women also hate women. But buzzwords are cool, I guess?
Perhaps telling young girls that sex is just for fun, no big deal, and doesn’t require any commitment or real feelings from men, is harming women? Hard to “smash the patriarchy” when you’re giving men exactly what they want. (Look! A cool buzzword!)
I’ve clearly triggered you. No one has suggested that the only alternative to purity culture is the extreme you’ve laid out here. Why the hyperbole? Is it because reality threatens your world view? Women who say they were not harmed by purity culture either weren’t exposed to it or are actively perpetuating it. Again, not really fun fodder for a snark board.
Is Tyler going to make an appearance at Me Camp? Isn’t every day Me Camp for Tyler?
My “world view” says that different women in different ages and seasons of life, have had different life experiences.
I’ve heard real life women say they were harmed by “purity culture”. I’ve heard real life women say they were not harmed, and actually thrived, by “purity culture”. I’ve heard real life women say they were harmed by never hearing a “purity culture” message.
Saying “purity culture BAD” may be a popular message with the buzzword crowd, but that does not make it true *for everyone*.
And I don’t think Tyler is going to me camp because their relationship is fake, they have most likely broken up, and their mutual publicist is probably hashing out the details of how to announce the break up while not tarnishing either of their images.
^This!!!! All of this on the purity culture thing!! Different women have had different experiences. Some women are mad that no one ever told them sex was special and should not be treated lightly. Someone women heard that message and decided to wait. Some women were told by the likes of the Duggars that if you lost your virginity before marriage, then you were equivalent to someone's rusty old bicycle that had been left out in the rain.
Do I think Jen had a Duggar experience with purity culture? Not for one second. Do I think she got married really young and maybe didn't learn how to communicate like a grownup with her spouse about sex? Possibly. But for her to praise up her parents on the highest of pedestals and then claim that she was maligned "by the patriarchy" doesn't line up at all- it's clearly a ruse to hawk books and podcasts and whatever else she can try to squeeze a buck out of.
I'm convinced that if 90s Purity Culture suddenly made a resurgence, she'd be the first one telling us to "value yourselves and your sexuality, dear ones! Save it for marriage!"
Anonymous
07/08/2024 16:12
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We can snark on Jen without pretending like purity culture isn’t real or harmful.
We can acknowledge that different people had different lived experiences. Geez….
Espousing that being a young woman raised in evangelical purity culture was not harmful is internalized misogyny, not a different lived experience. While this conversation is interesting and important, it’s not the right vibe for this forum. I’m also pretty sure it’s not the right vibe for Jen. For so many reasons listed here, she’s not someone whose opinion I highly value. She’s sold out too many times in too many directions and the narrative around the men in her family is in conflict with the one she’s selling her followers.
Lol. There are literally women on this thread saying they lived through evangelical purity culture and were not harmed. As for internalized misogyny; I highly doubt these women also hate women. But buzzwords are cool, I guess?
Perhaps telling young girls that sex is just for fun, no big deal, and doesn’t require any commitment or real feelings from men, is harming women? Hard to “smash the patriarchy” when you’re giving men exactly what they want. (Look! A cool buzzword!)
I’ve clearly triggered you. No one has suggested that the only alternative to purity culture is the extreme you’ve laid out here. Why the hyperbole? Is it because reality threatens your world view? Women who say they were not harmed by purity culture either weren’t exposed to it or are actively perpetuating it. Again, not really fun fodder for a snark board.
Is Tyler going to make an appearance at Me Camp? Isn’t every day Me Camp for Tyler?
Claiming that someone who doesn't agree with you about purity culture is guilty of internalized misogyny is just a variation of the ad hominem fallacy in which you attack your opponent in an argument rather than legitimately engaging them.
And telling people their only options are either perpetuating something bad or acknowledging they weren't exposed to it, is presenting a false dilemma in which you attempt to control the conversation by dictating definitions and dismissing other's assessment of their own experience. Why should you get to do that?
Anonymous
07/08/2024 16:07
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We can snark on Jen without pretending like purity culture isn’t real or harmful.
We can acknowledge that different people had different lived experiences. Geez….
Espousing that being a young woman raised in evangelical purity culture was not harmful is internalized misogyny, not a different lived experience. While this conversation is interesting and important, it’s not the right vibe for this forum. I’m also pretty sure it’s not the right vibe for Jen. For so many reasons listed here, she’s not someone whose opinion I highly value. She’s sold out too many times in too many directions and the narrative around the men in her family is in conflict with the one she’s selling her followers.
Lol. There are literally women on this thread saying they lived through evangelical purity culture and were not harmed. As for internalized misogyny; I highly doubt these women also hate women. But buzzwords are cool, I guess?
Perhaps telling young girls that sex is just for fun, no big deal, and doesn’t require any commitment or real feelings from men, is harming women? Hard to “smash the patriarchy” when you’re giving men exactly what they want. (Look! A cool buzzword!)
I’ve clearly triggered you. No one has suggested that the only alternative to purity culture is the extreme you’ve laid out here. Why the hyperbole? Is it because reality threatens your world view? Women who say they were not harmed by purity culture either weren’t exposed to it or are actively perpetuating it. Again, not really fun fodder for a snark board.
Is Tyler going to make an appearance at Me Camp? Isn’t every day Me Camp for Tyler?
My “world view” says that different women in different ages and seasons of life, have had different life experiences.
I’ve heard real life women say they were harmed by “purity culture”. I’ve heard real life women say they were not harmed, and actually thrived, by “purity culture”. I’ve heard real life women say they were harmed by never hearing a “purity culture” message.
Saying “purity culture BAD” may be a popular message with the buzzword crowd, but that does not make it true *for everyone*.
And I don’t think Tyler is going to me camp because their relationship is fake, they have most likely broken up, and their mutual publicist is probably hashing out the details of how to announce the break up while not tarnishing either of their images.
Anonymous
07/08/2024 15:51
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Women who say they were not harmed by purity culture either weren’t exposed to it or are actively perpetuating it.
Or maybe you don’t speak for all women?
How very “Jen” of you to assume you do.
Anonymous
07/08/2024 15:33
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We can snark on Jen without pretending like purity culture isn’t real or harmful.
We can acknowledge that different people had different lived experiences. Geez….
Espousing that being a young woman raised in evangelical purity culture was not harmful is internalized misogyny, not a different lived experience. While this conversation is interesting and important, it’s not the right vibe for this forum. I’m also pretty sure it’s not the right vibe for Jen. For so many reasons listed here, she’s not someone whose opinion I highly value. She’s sold out too many times in too many directions and the narrative around the men in her family is in conflict with the one she’s selling her followers.
Lol. There are literally women on this thread saying they lived through evangelical purity culture and were not harmed. As for internalized misogyny; I highly doubt these women also hate women. But buzzwords are cool, I guess?
Perhaps telling young girls that sex is just for fun, no big deal, and doesn’t require any commitment or real feelings from men, is harming women? Hard to “smash the patriarchy” when you’re giving men exactly what they want. (Look! A cool buzzword!)
I’ve clearly triggered you. No one has suggested that the only alternative to purity culture is the extreme you’ve laid out here. Why the hyperbole? Is it because reality threatens your world view? Women who say they were not harmed by purity culture either weren’t exposed to it or are actively perpetuating it. Again, not really fun fodder for a snark board.
Is Tyler going to make an appearance at Me Camp? Isn’t every day Me Camp for Tyler?
Anonymous
07/08/2024 15:06
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If Jen writes a poison pen letter to the church we need to go public with the real story of why the Hatmakers left the church they served at before ANC. What really unfolded there.
What do you know?? We need the tea!
Lake Hills Church
Austin
Anonymous
07/08/2024 14:50
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:If Jen writes a poison pen letter to the church we need to go public with the real story of why the Hatmakers left the church they served at before ANC. What really unfolded there.
What do you know?? We need the tea!
Anonymous
07/08/2024 13:24
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We can snark on Jen without pretending like purity culture isn’t real or harmful.
We can acknowledge that different people had different lived experiences. Geez….
Espousing that being a young woman raised in evangelical purity culture was not harmful is internalized misogyny, not a different lived experience. While this conversation is interesting and important, it’s not the right vibe for this forum. I’m also pretty sure it’s not the right vibe for Jen. For so many reasons listed here, she’s not someone whose opinion I highly value. She’s sold out too many times in too many directions and the narrative around the men in her family is in conflict with the one she’s selling her followers.
Lol. There are literally women on this thread saying they lived through evangelical purity culture and were not harmed. As for internalized misogyny; I highly doubt these women also hate women. But buzzwords are cool, I guess?
Perhaps telling young girls that sex is just for fun, no big deal, and doesn’t require any commitment or real feelings from men, is harming women? Hard to “smash the patriarchy” when you’re giving men exactly what they want. (Look! A cool buzzword!)
Anonymous
07/08/2024 13:12
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We can snark on Jen without pretending like purity culture isn’t real or harmful.
We can acknowledge that different people had different lived experiences. Geez….
Espousing that being a young woman raised in evangelical purity culture was not harmful is internalized misogyny, not a different lived experience. While this conversation is interesting and important, it’s not the right vibe for this forum. I’m also pretty sure it’s not the right vibe for Jen. For so many reasons listed here, she’s not someone whose opinion I highly value. She’s sold out too many times in too many directions and the narrative around the men in her family is in conflict with the one she’s selling her followers.
Acting as if everyone heard the exact same purity message growing up is, in fact, a different lived experience.
Anonymous
07/08/2024 12:48
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We can snark on Jen without pretending like purity culture isn’t real or harmful.
We can acknowledge that different people had different lived experiences. Geez….
Espousing that being a young woman raised in evangelical purity culture was not harmful is internalized misogyny, not a different lived experience. While this conversation is interesting and important, it’s not the right vibe for this forum. I’m also pretty sure it’s not the right vibe for Jen. For so many reasons listed here, she’s not someone whose opinion I highly value. She’s sold out too many times in too many directions and the narrative around the men in her family is in conflict with the one she’s selling her followers.
Anonymous
07/08/2024 10:57
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Anonymous wrote:We can snark on Jen without pretending like purity culture isn’t real or harmful.
We can acknowledge that different people had different lived experiences. Geez….
Anonymous
07/08/2024 10:30
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
We can snark on Jen without pretending like purity culture isn’t real or harmful.
Anonymous
07/08/2024 08:39
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
Thank you to all who have shared their experiences in churches/purity culture-/truly interesting to hear it.
Anonymous
07/07/2024 23:33
Subject: Jen Hatmaker
If Jen writes a poison pen letter to the church we need to go public with the real story of why the Hatmakers left the church they served at before ANC. What really unfolded there.