So because Muslima knows somebody who voluntarily wears a niqab, and can post 2 pro-niqab videos, this proves that nobody was ever forced to wear a niqab? Pretty sure we could Google and find women who were forced to cover.

Muslima wrote:The oppressed Niqabi

Sorry, I couldn't view the video.

From the Independent article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/lets-face-it--the-niqab-is-ridiculous-and-the-ideology-behind-it-weird-8831691.html

The niqab is a ridiculous garment, adopted by a small (but growing) number of women and rejected by many mainstream Muslims. When I see someone wearing it, I'm torn between laughing at the absurdity and irritation with the ideology it represents. In secular countries, the notion that women have to cover their faces whenever they leave the house is rightly seen as weird, and runs counter to the principle of gender equality. Many brave women in the Middle East and Asia have died for the much more important right not to cover their faces, and I have little patience with women in this country who make a mockery of that struggle by trying to pretend they're the ones suffering oppression.

The oppressed Niqabi - The Canadian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyTGY7wmIjo

The American

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu9AdvDaLmA

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The Amish have received special dispensation to isolate themselves. We allow homeschooling, communes, etc. However, if the isolation seems coercive, we step in. In this country, we step in in cases of the FLDS. This seems similar, but on a smaller scale in this country. The scale seems much larger in France.

There is nothing to indicate that niqabis in the U.S. or Europe are coerced into it, other than your fervent desire to believe it to be so, to the point where you negate the voices of women who wear it voluntarily.

+100- Fact: A very close friend of mine wears the niqab, has never lived in a country where this was the norm, she willingly one day woke up and started wearing a niqab in the US, she is single. When I asked her why she wanted to wear the niqab, she said because she loves the look, ( Yeh , the look ) . Women in her family don't even wear a hijab, she chooses to wear her niqab because she thinks it's pretty. She knows it is not a requirement of the religion, and does it solely for style purposes and wants different colors of niqab. I myself have 2 niqabs that I wear sometimes, when I feel like it. So when I read ignorant comments about how all of these niqabis supposedly live, I just want to scream!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The British perspective, for anyone interested:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/lets-face-it--the-niqab-is-ridiculous-and-the-ideology-behind-it-weird-8831691.html

This reminded of a show I heard on WAMU the other day, about two British twins who had converted, one to Christianity and one to Islam. The Muslim sister said that she got lots of harassment for wearing the hijab, and wouldn't go out at night with her Muslim friends, would stay in rather than endure the abuse. While that harassment is very bad, and I think less prevalent here, the idea didn't occur to her that she was not being modest by wearing it. She was standing out, in a hugely negative way. That thought never occurred to her or her Muslim friends.

I don't know how you can put this on her vs. her harassers. Would you apply the same logic to a woman who got harassed for wearing a miniskirt? Better stay in, darling?

Anonymous wrote:The British perspective, for anyone interested:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/lets-face-it--the-niqab-is-ridiculous-and-the-ideology-behind-it-weird-8831691.html

This reminded of a show I heard on WAMU the other day, about two British twins who had converted, one to Christianity and one to Islam. The Muslim sister said that she got lots of harassment for wearing the hijab, and wouldn't go out at night with her Muslim friends, would stay in rather than endure the abuse. While that harassment is very bad, and I think less prevalent here, the idea didn't occur to her that she was not being modest by wearing it. She was standing out, in a hugely negative way. That thought never occurred to her or her Muslim friends.

Anonymous wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/29/alleged-honor-killing-suspect-yaser-said-could-be-hiding-in-plain-sight-as-new/

so you don't think a parent like this might pressure his teen daughters to adopt the niqab?

I doubt it, because he's Egyptian and it's not that common there. But now I guess you'll say I am defending honor killings for knowing that

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/29/alleged-honor-killing-suspect-yaser-said-could-be-hiding-in-plain-sight-as-new/

so you don't think a parent like this might pressure his teen daughters to adopt the niqab?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That's your interpretation. Women who cover their faces may very well believe that you aren't special enough to see them. The sight of their face is reserved only for special people, and you aren't one of them.


Absolutely. In my opinion, these complete coverings serve the purpose of isolating women from broader society and making them only interact with those of their own religious community of believers.

I can see you believe that no woman may actually choose to live like that. You say you want women to have freedom of choice, but in actuality, you only want them to have you-approved choices. If you disapprove of a particular lifestyle, it should not be offered as a choice. Got it.

I never said anything about not allowing women to wear them or whether they choose to wear them. In response to the comment that Niqab wearing women may believe you aren't special enough to see them, I said these coverings serve the purpose of isolating women from broader society. Later I added that the intent doesn't matter, they have that effect.

Someone said I like to pretend that niqabs are more isolating than they are. No, I really think they're pretty isolating, at least in general Western society.

Again - if someone wants to be isolated from a "broader society", and you don't want them to, is it a good enough reason to legislate against it? I think not.

There are probably klansmen who welcome this line of thinking so that they'll be free to conduct their evil in disguise.

The British perspective, for anyone interested:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/lets-face-it--the-niqab-is-ridiculous-and-the-ideology-behind-it-weird-8831691.html

Anonymous wrote:
The Amish have received special dispensation to isolate themselves. We allow homeschooling, communes, etc. However, if the isolation seems coercive, we step in. In this country, we step in in cases of the FLDS. This seems similar, but on a smaller scale in this country. The scale seems much larger in France.

There is nothing to indicate that niqabis in the U.S. or Europe are coerced into it, other than your fervent desire to believe it to be so, to the point where you negate the voices of women who wear it voluntarily.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:I actually recognize my friends who wear a niqab, I must be a genius ~

I'm glad you recognize your friends--I'm sure their mannerisms and voices are familiar to you. That's not the point, and I feel sure you know it.

Hopefully, they come in different skin tones.

Attention to detail, you get to know the characteristics and attributes of those around you : their voices, the way they arranged their niqab, their eyes, their demeanor, their pace, their smiles, and even the type of abaya, handbag and shoe they wear.

with a niqab



With a burqa, however, you don't see eyes or a mouth So you'll have to rely on your other senses - touch and sound.

How ridiculous these garbs are!

Let's bring back the corset while we're at it and collapse a few lungs.

I'm sure, they have their ways of recognizing each other. The corset is Back, haven't you heard? There is a whole movement about it. .....

haven't heard of the corset resurrection, no . . .

However, I'd say the same thing - brainwashed women forced by culture to be subservient

burqa and niqab AND hijab = corset

same difference

not if you grew up in a society that forces all women to do this or be ostracized.

an exacting daily regimen requiring absolute obedience, sound familiar?

brainwashing, cult

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:I actually recognize my friends who wear a niqab, I must be a genius ~

I'm glad you recognize your friends--I'm sure their mannerisms and voices are familiar to you. That's not the point, and I feel sure you know it.

Hopefully, they come in different skin tones.

Attention to detail, you get to know the characteristics and attributes of those around you : their voices, the way they arranged their niqab, their eyes, their demeanor, their pace, their smiles, and even the type of abaya, handbag and shoe they wear.

with a niqab



With a burqa, however, you don't see eyes or a mouth So you'll have to rely on your other senses - touch and sound.

How ridiculous these garbs are!

Let's bring back the corset while we're at it and collapse a few lungs.

I'm sure, they have their ways of recognizing each other. The corset is Back, haven't you heard? There is a whole movement about it. .....

haven't heard of the corset resurrection, no . . .

However, I'd say the same thing - brainwashed women forced by culture to be subservient

burqa and niqab AND hijab = corset

same difference

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That's your interpretation. Women who cover their faces may very well believe that you aren't special enough to see them. The sight of their face is reserved only for special people, and you aren't one of them.


Absolutely. In my opinion, these complete coverings serve the purpose of isolating women from broader society and making them only interact with those of their own religious community of believers.

I can see you believe that no woman may actually choose to live like that. You say you want women to have freedom of choice, but in actuality, you only want them to have you-approved choices. If you disapprove of a particular lifestyle, it should not be offered as a choice. Got it.

I never said anything about not allowing women to wear them or whether they choose to wear them. In response to the comment that Niqab wearing women may believe you aren't special enough to see them, I said these coverings serve the purpose of isolating women from broader society. Later I added that the intent doesn't matter, they have that effect.

Someone said I like to pretend that niqabs are more isolating than they are. No, I really think they're pretty isolating, at least in general Western society.

Again - if someone wants to be isolated from a "broader society", and you don't want them to, is it a good enough reason to legislate against it? I think not.

The Amish have received special dispensation to isolate themselves. We allow homeschooling, communes, etc. However, if the isolation seems coercive, we step in. In this country, we step in in cases of the FLDS. This seems similar, but on a smaller scale in this country. The scale seems much larger in France.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That's your interpretation. Women who cover their faces may very well believe that you aren't special enough to see them. The sight of their face is reserved only for special people, and you aren't one of them.


Absolutely. In my opinion, these complete coverings serve the purpose of isolating women from broader society and making them only interact with those of their own religious community of believers.

I can see you believe that no woman may actually choose to live like that. You say you want women to have freedom of choice, but in actuality, you only want them to have you-approved choices. If you disapprove of a particular lifestyle, it should not be offered as a choice. Got it.

I never said anything about not allowing women to wear them or whether they choose to wear them. In response to the comment that Niqab wearing women may believe you aren't special enough to see them, I said these coverings serve the purpose of isolating women from broader society. Later I added that the intent doesn't matter, they have that effect.

Someone said I like to pretend that niqabs are more isolating than they are. No, I really think they're pretty isolating, at least in general Western society.

Again - if someone wants to be isolated from a "broader society", and you don't want them to, is it a good enough reason to legislate against it? I think not.