Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

I think a lot of people on the "it's not so bad I still like it here so will stay" category are those either r with minimal family obligations or they are using leave and assuming it is temporary. I think a lot more people will feel the pain if this goes on for over 6 months. It is simply unsustainable. Can you imagine when fall comes and everyone is coming in with the flu? I will be shutting my door all day and dialing into calls.

Anonymous wrote:Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

You are right the two groups are different, but I’m not sure that is the source of disagreement here.

I’m not even sure which group would be the I’m only here because I am stuck and which would be it’s not that bad.

Anonymous wrote:How are single parents, or households where both parents work in office handling it? There are so many random gaps in childcare between school ending and summer vacations. Getting ad hoc is becoming such a pain, but I would burn through leave so fast otherwise. What about people with kids in various therapies, like speech or OT? How is it doable? Before all the trolls comment, this is more rigid than any job I have ever had and it is not normal at all compared to private white collar work.

Not at SEC but similar agency. I have a kid with SN that requires therapy and sometimes unpredictable school pickups. Luckily he is old enough now to stay home alone after school and has not gotten kicked out of school for over a year knock on wood. I earn and burn all my sick leave taking him to weekly therapy. If I run out of sick leave for an actual illness, I will have to ask for medical telework to cover the therapy days (I can work a full day at home then take to therapy. I am not sure this would be granted. At that point I would have to consider taking unpaid leave or vacation.

Prior to Covid when my child was younger, I had a part-time nanny to be with DC after school because he couldnt handle aftercare. She was awesome and would also do therapy and dr appointments.

Everyone on these threads talks past each other bc everyone ignores the 800 gorilla in the room — namely, that there are at least 2 groups of staff, which are affected VERY differently by RTO, career exit options, doge, etc:

1. Highly credentialed lawyers and accountants and economists, and

2. Support staff, IT folks, etc.

Those groups keep arguing with each other, which is futile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there is no point arguing on the tw. it has been discussed many times. i think this is a place to vent and commmiserate with each other how the sec has devolved into a place where we don’t want to work but have to work given our life situation and weak job prospects at the moment. and yes i am also using up lots of leave

I don’t think most people feel that way.

Don’t feel what way? Because everyone I know (and I know a ton of people) feel that way if not worse.

We must be talking to different people. I’m not saying people prefer the current set up or that there isn’t some dissatisfaction. But I don’t think most people don’t want to work here anymore and are staying only because/as long as they have no other option.

Are you serious? That is exactly why most of us are staying. No other jobs or mid 50’s and limited options but too young to retire.

Yes, I’m serious. Just because you state your point with added incredulity doesn’t mean I am going to agree with you.

Most people I talk to aren’t looking, or looking hard, and hope to be able to stay. They recognize it is still a pretty good deal overall, hope/assume it will get at least somewhat better re telework in the next six months to a year, and believe we will be back to pre-Covid or similar by the end of the administration.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there is no point arguing on the tw. it has been discussed many times. i think this is a place to vent and commmiserate with each other how the sec has devolved into a place where we don’t want to work but have to work given our life situation and weak job prospects at the moment. and yes i am also using up lots of leave

I don’t think most people feel that way.

Don’t feel what way? Because everyone I know (and I know a ton of people) feel that way if not worse.

We must be talking to different people. I’m not saying people prefer the current set up or that there isn’t some dissatisfaction. But I don’t think most people don’t want to work here anymore and are staying only because/as long as they have no other option.

Are you serious? That is exactly why most of us are staying. No other jobs or mid 50’s and limited options but too young to retire.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there is no point arguing on the tw. it has been discussed many times. i think this is a place to vent and commmiserate with each other how the sec has devolved into a place where we don’t want to work but have to work given our life situation and weak job prospects at the moment. and yes i am also using up lots of leave

I don’t think most people feel that way.

Don’t feel what way? Because everyone I know (and I know a ton of people) feel that way if not worse.

We must be talking to different people. I’m not saying people prefer the current set up or that there isn’t some dissatisfaction. But I don’t think most people don’t want to work here anymore and are staying only because/as long as they have no other option.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there is no point arguing on the tw. it has been discussed many times. i think this is a place to vent and commmiserate with each other how the sec has devolved into a place where we don’t want to work but have to work given our life situation and weak job prospects at the moment. and yes i am also using up lots of leave

I don’t think most people feel that way.

Don’t feel what way? Because everyone I know (and I know a ton of people) feel that way if not worse.

Same here. I think everyone is looking but there's not much out there, we are all probably applying for the same jobs!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there is no point arguing on the tw. it has been discussed many times. i think this is a place to vent and commmiserate with each other how the sec has devolved into a place where we don’t want to work but have to work given our life situation and weak job prospects at the moment. and yes i am also using up lots of leave

I don’t think most people feel that way.

Don’t feel what way? Because everyone I know (and I know a ton of people) feel that way if not worse.

Anonymous wrote:there is no point arguing on the tw. it has been discussed many times. i think this is a place to vent and commmiserate with each other how the sec has devolved into a place where we don’t want to work but have to work given our life situation and weak job prospects at the moment. and yes i am also using up lots of leave

I don’t think most people feel that way.

there is no point arguing on the tw. it has been discussed many times. i think this is a place to vent and commmiserate with each other how the sec has devolved into a place where we don’t want to work but have to work given our life situation and weak job prospects at the moment. and yes i am also using up lots of leave

Anonymous wrote:Every thread about telework devolves into this argument.

Nobody should be arguing that telework is meant to allow you to watch your kids on a regular basis.

What people are saying, I think, is that teleworking allows working parents to work a full day and still drop off or pick up a kid from school (or be there when the bus drops off). The addition of a commute to the office (which, for some people, can add 2-3 hours a day) makes this no longer possible.

Of course, occasionally, if you have an older kid who is home sick and doesn't need an adult to watch or supervise them but just needs an adult in the home, that may be a good time for ad hoc telework.

Yes, but if you are picking up your early elementary school child from the bus every day and then still working a couple of hours while the kid is home, it is reasonable to believe that, at least somewhat regularly, not a ton of work is being done during those couple of hours.

Every thread about telework devolves into this argument.

Nobody should be arguing that telework is meant to allow you to watch your kids on a regular basis.

What people are saying, I think, is that teleworking allows working parents to work a full day and still drop off or pick up a kid from school (or be there when the bus drops off). The addition of a commute to the office (which, for some people, can add 2-3 hours a day) makes this no longer possible.

Of course, occasionally, if you have an older kid who is home sick and doesn't need an adult to watch or supervise them but just needs an adult in the home, that may be a good time for ad hoc telework.

You absolutely are a troll if after all the RTO threads you still don't get that people are not using telework for childcare. But it does mean I can work for half the day and take the other half off for gaps, it means I can make an OT session in the two hours I am not spending commuting (OR it means I can just take an hour off for an OT session vs the whole damn day). It means I can attend my kids end of year activities by taking an hour off vs another whole damn day. It means I can stay home and work while I am recovering from a cold. It means getting sick less because nowadays everyone is going to work sick. People took this job because it offered that flexibility so don't give me that crap about "oh you should have had childcare for every single thing that comes up in life".

This is not that hard to figure out. Get on the damn page.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are single parents, or households where both parents work in office handling it? There are so many random gaps in childcare between school ending and summer vacations. Getting ad hoc is becoming such a pain, but I would burn through leave so fast otherwise. What about people with kids in various therapies, like speech or OT? How is it doable? Before all the trolls comment, this is more rigid than any job I have ever had and it is not normal at all compared to private white collar work.

I hate these types of posts. It makes employees look bad. You should have always had childcare - TW or not!

Hire a summer sitter, camps, grandparents visit, go PT, use leave etc.

Ignore the troll. Kids can entertain themselves while an adult sits at home. It’s dumb to be forced to take leave just to sit around while your kid plays independently or watches tv.

I am scared of what will happen to parents too OP. It’s a disgrace.

I don’t think PP is a troll, or her concerns can be dismissed outright. First, as a matter of policy, you aren’t supposed to use TW for childcare. Nor is that a completely unreasonable policy.

I agree that some kids, for some periods of time, can act independently with minimal interference to the working parent. But many really can’t, especially when young.

Do you really believe there weren’t a meaningful number of people abusing things when we were completely (or almost completely) teleworking?