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Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

It matters unless the school is test blind.
So kids should do their best getting top score.
It's a common sense.

Also common sense is not getting rascally discriminated.
Very very common sense stuff.

For all we know every other kid admitted to those schools for the same major had a 1600 and higher GPA. 1590 wasn't good enough.

Check your math.
Three are close to 2 million test takers each year, and only about 1,000 get the 1600 perfect score.
Harvard alone admits about 2000 students.

Clueless people are pending its not a big deal to get 1600 1590, and prepping would easily do that, but it's extremely hard and a big accomplishment.

You are conveniently forgetting superscoring. Many of these kids with 1500+ got there by superscoring. Maybe it’s 1,000 one shot, but the are multitudes more through superscoring and, sadly, the colleges don’t know if it is one time or super scored.

+1

Majority of the 1500+ SAT scores are BOUGHT with extensive private test prep and superscoriing (paying for multiple tests). Household financial wherewithal drives the scores. Even the College Board has admitted this.

Reason why the "merit" argument
citing standardized test scores is laughable.

The AOs know this.

People are focusing on this case as if there is a real mob of people who got upset because their kid didn't get accepted and they filed a lawsuit. As with many, if not most, constitutional law cases that get to the Supreme Court, they are brought by an organization that has a particular political/ideological mission and they recruit a sympathetic plaintiff to be the face of the case. This case was brought by a group called Students for Fair Admission, which was founded by a very white, conservative, guy with an objective of eliminating affirmative action. They needed to recruit students to get standing so they could file the lawsuits. Selecting Asian-Americans as the students to use as a front for their efforts was strategic because they believed it would help in their cause to have students from a minority group that has high "objective" stats, but Students for Fair Admission does not have any particular interest in helping Asian-Americans and it would have thrown them over at the first hint that they would not help their cause. This group, the people running the group and contributing to it, and the justices who may vote in favor of the case, are by no means friends of the Asian-American community. That doesn't mean that there aren't Asian-American organizations aligned with the lawsuit, but they only got involved by filing amicus briefs after the case was filed.

What that means is the opinion may not actually be written in a way that is best for Asian-American applicants in the long run. For example, it may provide support for (or at least leave untouched) other non-stats based criteria that benefit white students, which would give universities license to beef those up and allow those students to take the spots that Asian-Americans think will now go to them. It also means that criticizing Asian-Americans and their kids is probably not the most productive way to think about the case. They are just pawns in a legal gambit and may end up being unwitting victims. The groups bankrolling this case would like to pit non-elites and minority groups against each other to distract from their main mission.

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Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

Of course there are some who assimilate but many don’t. We lived in what’s called luxury housing which means apartments in the $8,000 range. There was a large amount of Asian families living there. They completely isolated themselves. Wouldn’t even look at other residents. It wasn’t just a language barrier either.

There were residents from all over. There were two Russian women came over not speaking English. They started right in making friends with everyone. Same with families from Europe and Middle East.

and some assimilated Americans just shoot neighbors lol.

Yeah, those are the Americans whose family has been here forever. Talk about entitled.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

Imagine an elite college institution caring more about sports than academics. Only in America.

Imagine applying to an elite school and not understanding what their priorities were. So smart, yet so stupid.

indeed.. imagine not realizing that an elite academic institution cares more about sports than academics.

Unless you're new here you would already know that. Being culturally clueless isn't a defense.

and you think it makes total sense that an elite academic institution cares more about sports than academics?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

It matters unless the school is test blind.
So kids should do their best getting top score.
It's a common sense.

Also common sense is not getting rascally discriminated.
Very very common sense stuff.

For all we know every other kid admitted to those schools for the same major had a 1600 and higher GPA. 1590 wasn't good enough.

Check your math.
Three are close to 2 million test takers each year, and only about 1,000 get the 1600 perfect score.
Harvard alone admits about 2000 students.

Clueless people are pending its not a big deal to get 1600 1590, and prepping would easily do that, but it's extremely hard and a big accomplishment.

You are conveniently forgetting superscoring. Many of these kids with 1500+ got there by superscoring. Maybe it’s 1,000 one shot, but the are multitudes more through superscoring and, sadly, the colleges don’t know if it is one time or super scored.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

It matters unless the school is test blind.
So kids should do their best getting top score.
It's a common sense.

Also common sense is not getting rascally discriminated.
Very very common sense stuff.

For all we know every other kid admitted to those schools for the same major had a 1600 and higher GPA. 1590 wasn't good enough.

Check your math.
Three are close to 2 million test takers each year, and only about 1,000 get the 1600 perfect score.
Harvard alone admits about 2000 students.

Clueless people are pending its not a big deal to get 1600 1590, and prepping would easily do that, but it's extremely hard and a big accomplishment.

But as has been explained 100 times now, those 2000 students admitted are not all STEM majors. STEM majors are held to a different standard compared to theatre majors because they have different academic foundations and requirements. There are very few students who could hack any major. Your 1590 pre-med student is NOT just competing with other pre-med students in undergraduate- there are X amount of spaces already reserved within majors. That reduces the amount of available spaces within certain programs, thus making it more competitive. You also are competing within regions, school districts, whether parents have degrees, etc. They will once it further narrows to med school but again, not all students who enter med school have STEM undergrad degrees.

My ultimate frustration is the thinking that this one kid was competing for one of 2000 spots.And to be completely frank, with the data on Harvards incoming class the problem is not that this kid isn't smart enough, it is that he isn't wealthy.

About a fifth of respondents reported receiving help preparing college applications from a privately-hired counselor. Of these students, 42.9 percent of those who disclosed their parents’ financial status reported a combined family income of $250,000 or more; 8.2 percent reported a parental income of less than $40,000.

Nearly 30 percent of members of the Class of 2024 who answered a question about parental income in The Crimson’s survey of freshmen said their families make $250,000 or more per year — earnings higher than 95 percent of American households.

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Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

Imagine an elite college institution caring more about sports than academics. Only in America.

Imagine applying to an elite school and not understanding what their priorities were. So smart, yet so stupid.

indeed.. imagine not realizing that an elite academic institution cares more about sports than academics.

Unless you're new here you would already know that. Being culturally clueless isn't a defense.

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Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

It matters unless the school is test blind.
So kids should do their best getting top score.
It's a common sense.

Also common sense is not getting rascally discriminated.
Very very common sense stuff.

For all we know every other kid admitted to those schools for the same major had a 1600 and higher GPA. 1590 wasn't good enough.

Check your math.
Three are close to 2 million test takers each year, and only about 1,000 get the 1600 perfect score.
Harvard alone admits about 2000 students.

Clueless people are pending its not a big deal to get 1600 1590, and prepping would easily do that, but it's extremely hard and a big accomplishment.

I bet if this kid put down Russian Literature or Women's Studies as his major he might have gotten in. But he didn't and rolled the dice. He didn't think outside the box.

Anonymous wrote:I think reality is not so black and white, as always it is more grey. I do support favoring kids who are working jobs and then working hard to achieve good results in academics, regardless of race and ethnicity. However, I do think that due to Asian Americans doing well on test scores, schools/colleges have suddenly started placing more emphasis on non academic aspects of an application. That is the only way they can promote sports and other fluff and accommodate White and Black kids.

I was at my 6th grader's promotion ceremony the other day, their school handed out every single award under the sun for patrol, choir, theater, art, community service but there was absolutely no recognition of academic achievement. Partly, it was also so that they could inflate the egos of PTA moms by giving their kids these fluff awards but it really surprised me.

Having said that, this world is not fair and owes us nothing. We have to roll with the punches and come out strong. Guess who they will be calling when that "holistic" admissions doctor botches up the surgery.

Again, the holistic stuff was invented to target Jews in the past.
Of course, Asians know what holistic is, so they also get high scores on ECs, leadership, interview, essay, award, music, art,s etc.
However they keep moving the goalpost, and invented BS scores like courage/kindness/likability stuff.

Furthermore the funny thing is that Asian kids actually scored higher on likability by interviewers who actually talk to the students person to person.

So I think it's more black then grey.

I think reality is not so black and white, as always it is more grey. I do support favoring kids who are working jobs and then working hard to achieve good results in academics, regardless of race and ethnicity. However, I do think that due to Asian Americans doing well on test scores, schools/colleges have suddenly started placing more emphasis on non academic aspects of an application. That is the only way they can promote sports and other fluff and accommodate White and Black kids.

I was at my 6th grader's promotion ceremony the other day, their school handed out every single award under the sun for patrol, choir, theater, art, community service but there was absolutely no recognition of academic achievement. Partly, it was also so that they could inflate the egos of PTA moms by giving their kids these fluff awards but it really surprised me.

Having said that, this world is not fair and owes us nothing. We have to roll with the punches and come out strong. Guess who they will be calling when that "holistic" admissions doctor botches up the surgery.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

It matters unless the school is test blind.
So kids should do their best getting top score.
It's a common sense.

Also common sense is not getting rascally discriminated.
Very very common sense stuff.

For all we know every other kid admitted to those schools for the same major had a 1600 and higher GPA. 1590 wasn't good enough.

Check your math.
Three are close to 2 million test takers each year, and only about 1,000 get the 1600 perfect score.
Harvard alone admits about 2000 students.

Clueless people are pending its not a big deal to get 1600 1590, and prepping would easily do that, but it's extremely hard and a big accomplishment.

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Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

Imagine an elite college institution caring more about sports than academics. Only in America.

Imagine applying to an elite school and not understanding what their priorities were. So smart, yet so stupid.

indeed.. imagine not realizing that an elite academic institution cares more about sports than academics.

Anonymous wrote:THERE IS NO 'SECRET SAUCE' - as some people claim there is. Seems certain groups want an answer, so they can prep for it, but not one answer exists - except (listen carefully) -

Admission in up to the individual school. Period.

yet, so many on here see Asian Americans as a monolith - "prepped, tutored, no personality, only knows how to take a test".

My issue with Harvard is how the AO has marked so many Asian American students as "not likeable" without ever having met them, while the Interviewer marked them as "likeable". That tells me that they are engaging in stereotyping at best, and discrimination at worst, all in the name of keeping the number of Asian American students from getting too big at Harvard. This is exactly why Harvard introduced holistic admissions way back, except swap Asian Americans with Jews.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

It matters unless the school is test blind.
So kids should do their best getting top score.
It's a common sense.

Also common sense is not getting rascally discriminated.
Very very common sense stuff.

For all we know every other kid admitted to those schools for the same major had a 1600 and higher GPA. 1590 wasn't good enough.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:China and India alone have almost 3 billion citizens.

Chinese immigrants number about 2 million a year to the US. Immigrants from India have about the same numbers.

These immigrants come here for education and better quality of life. They are a tiny percentage of Asians but they are the most likely to be hardest working with some money and family connections.

I have a friend who came here from China as a child. We have children in the same grade and are close. The rest of her extended family will not allow their children to be friends with American children. They see Americans as lazy and a distraction.

It’s a different culture and with that amount of people the Asian population could easily fill MIT, Harvard, etc a thousand times over. What are they supposed to do, especially if most of them go back to their country of origin?

I don’t understand the question…what are they supposed to do about what?

Why should we be sympathetic to the families that won’t assimilate?

What are you talking about
They are the ones who assimilate to the American way and American dream - hardworking and competition

No, the American way (which is what has made this country historically such a great place)…is that you are proud of your heritage but you are now an American and you want to embrace the country in its entirety (foibles and all). If America evolved with just a bunch of ethnic cliques keeping to themselves, the country would have a much lower GDP and overall quality of life.

Help us really understand why you are immigrating here. Someone posted a list of top engineering schools and 13/20 were in Asia, so no need to go to college in the US (in fact why would you?). If you apparently hate the people and the system…help us understand.

What are you talking about
Working hard and fair competition is not just the American way, it should be applied to everywhere
Since you asked, personally I followed my parents when I was a minor, and my kids were born here like you I guess.
I don't hate anything. I just found that the college admission system has a lot of flaws and room for improvements.
It seems that the US Supreme Court would agree with me on some of them, and we'll see progress.
Systems evolve.

You are looking for a dictatorship. It is not here.

But go on with your tutoring.

It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word, dictatorship.
The colleges are acting like dictators when they are receiving all sorts of government aid and support.

It is the colleges who get to decide who THEY want at THEIR school. NOT the pushy parents.

colleges shouldn't decide based on race, that's the point. It's illegal to base anything on race, a protected class.

You are correct, it should not be. Most people (except Asians) believe it currently is not, except for URMs - please look up the meaning of URM.

Point being, if all of one kind come to the U.S. at once, and most expect to be admitted, it is not going to happen. It has been this way for generations. You were given bad information, and now you want that information to be true, when it is not.

No one is "expecting" to be admitted to an elite college. People are "expecting" to not be discriminated against their race. I think black people would agree that no one should be discriminated against because of their race.

Black people wish you would be just as vocal when it comes to pay disparity........right crickets....

Paying someone less because of their race is illegal, as it should be. I'm glad you agree that they're both equally immoral.

AND YET IT STILL HAPPENS THERE IS DATA SHOWING IT AND I DONT HEAR ASIAN AMERICANS TAKING UP THE BANNER FOR OTHERS. So excuse me, while I make sure that my black son takes your kids' seat.

you don't have to take up the banner for Asian Americans. The lawsuit it doing that.

The NAACP rarely takes up the banner for other minorities other than black, other than platitudes.

You didn't get the pointed jab about how black kids are taking AA seats because that's what this comes down to. AA act like the seats in institutions are already theirs. And they are overrepresented as it were. So just look at it this way, your Asian kid will go to a T25-50 and can still make more than a black kid Ivy grad.
Thanks for playing!

don't know anyone who " act like the seats in institutions are already theirs.". These kids study hard, work hard. They don't "act like the seat is already theirs".

The point is not about whether they will be ok. The point is that they are discriminated against based on their race, just like how those colleges discriminated against Jews. Wrong then; wrong now.

When only 7% of the us population is asian, and 30% of Harvard's incoming class is asian, it seems hard to say they are discriminating.
Are you going to try to tell me that blacks and latinos are not as smart as asians?

Not necessarily smarter as a group, but one thing for sure: Asian parents are much harsher disciplinarians than Black, Hispanic, or even White patients in general. Have you read a book by Yale Law Professor Amy Chua, “Battle Hymn of Tiger Mother” published over a decade ago? Her own father, Leon Chua, was a famous professor of EE at UCB. Her dad and mom came to US basically penniless and her dad worked his xxx off to get his Ph.D. Intelligence is relevant, of course, but it’s really about hard work. That book is a bit depressing to read though—how she treated her own two daughters. But both went to Ivys. I believe her old daughter went to Yale Law and clerked for Justice Kavanaugh. One thing Amy Chua’s book is revealing—although it’s a pretty well known fact—if an Asian child breaks rules or is lazy, he/she is likely to face far harsher punishment in an Asian family than in a White, Black or Hispanic family. Of course, each family is different. But in general it’s true.

And they are drilled, drilled, drilled from early childhood to make sure they perform better than anyone else. So yeah, maybe not quite the secret sauce their target colleges are looking for.

If these kids are so so smart why do they have to work so hard? I'm much more impressed by the kid who didn't spend years prepping for the SAT who can get a near perfect score in one sitting. That kid is actually smart.

That’s the point. There is no scientific evidence that one race is smarter than another. Disparity in IQ scores does not prove that there is racial disparity in INNATE intelligence.

Btw my DS didn’t take ANY SAT prep course. Just bought a couple of books to study himself. Got 1590. Maybe that’s what you call “actually smart.”

"bought a couple of books to study"

Thats prepping

But not at the level for many privileged and asians. They spend 40 hour+ with 1-1 $150/hr tutoring to get that 1580. Very different than a self motivated kid who buys the books, studies for 10-15 hours and takes the test/gets a 1580.

Why do you care about other people's prepping?
Kids cant' spend 40 hour+ without motivation and dedication.
Do whatever fits you.

If a kid spend 40+ hours practicing and training to become a captain in a varsity football team, and eventually go to a college thanks to that, that's nothing different. I've never seen people complaining about kids practicing.
Very strange mindset.

But if the colleges and universities don't value getting the top SAT score for the sake of getting the best score, it's a waste of time. Being the best football player can get you recruited to play football. But if it doesn't nobody seems to be complaining about it. There isn't a lawsuit for washed up football players who didn't make it. The people spending all their free time on a test that doesn't matter as much as they think it should have a strange mindset.

Imagine an elite college institution caring more about sports than academics. Only in America.

Imagine applying to an elite school and not understanding what their priorities were. So smart, yet so stupid.