Anonymous
01/03/2021 08:54
Subject: Re:Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The timing of collective bargaining starting May 1 is unfortunate, because it gives AEA a lot of incentive to take a very hard line right now. They’re worried that any inch they gone now will affect the contract they can negotiate in the spring, so they’re not going to give an inch on reopening until their contract is done.
? - But they don’t have any real power now. Plus, they really don’t speak for all teachers.
They don’t have the legal authority to set policy, but they absolutely have power. If AEA came to its members and said they believed schools could open safely now if APS did X,Y, and Z, you would see a lot more teachers getting on board with the idea (and indicating a willingness to return to in-school education). Instead, what we have right now is AEA insisting there’s no way school could be safely reopened at any time this year and demanding that APS make the decision now to stay virtual the entire year, and encouraging their members to take the same approaching by instead indicating that they do not want to return to in-school learning (hence the concerns about adequate staffing). AEA is worried that any compromise they agree to now will be a foregone conclusion in contract negotiations, and that they’ll have to negotiate off that compromise point rather than the extreme position they’re taking now.
From a pure negotiating standpoint, it’s the right strategy for them, but no one should be under any illusion that their position on reopening is considering student needs. It’s all about contract negotiation.
Ah, well. Unfortunately, we live in the land of self interest. Can you blame them? Well, I guess a lot of folks do. I don’t. How else are they going to survive in a country where greedy men take all that they can? Mothers, teachers, social workers, nurses - all those people who give and give and give — have to stand up for themselves. I guess you can either decide to oppress them even more or throw them the few bones they are asking for. If you need them this much, then why are people being so gosh darn stingy about giving them their vaccines, their air filters, and their hazard pay. Show them they are worth something other than the crap you scrape off your shoes. You think they already have cushy jobs? Try volunteering in a classroom for one week before you make that judgment.
AEA has already said that even if APS implements all of these measures, they still oppose reopening this school year. So please stop pretending that hazard pay and air filters are the impediment to teachers going back into schools.
Anonymous
01/03/2021 08:52
Subject: Re:Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The timing of collective bargaining starting May 1 is unfortunate, because it gives AEA a lot of incentive to take a very hard line right now. They’re worried that any inch they gone now will affect the contract they can negotiate in the spring, so they’re not going to give an inch on reopening until their contract is done.
? - But they don’t have any real power now. Plus, they really don’t speak for all teachers.
They don’t have the legal authority to set policy, but they absolutely have power. If AEA came to its members and said they believed schools could open safely now if APS did X,Y, and Z, you would see a lot more teachers getting on board with the idea (and indicating a willingness to return to in-school education). Instead, what we have right now is AEA insisting there’s no way school could be safely reopened at any time this year and demanding that APS make the decision now to stay virtual the entire year, and encouraging their members to take the same approaching by instead indicating that they do not want to return to in-school learning (hence the concerns about adequate staffing). AEA is worried that any compromise they agree to now will be a foregone conclusion in contract negotiations, and that they’ll have to negotiate off that compromise point rather than the extreme position they’re taking now.
From a pure negotiating standpoint, it’s the right strategy for them, but no one should be under any illusion that their position on reopening is considering student needs. It’s all about contract negotiation.
Ah, well. Unfortunately, we live in the land of self interest. Can you blame them? Well, I guess a lot of folks do. I don’t. How else are they going to survive in a country where greedy men take all that they can? Mothers, teachers, social workers, nurses - all those people who give and give and give — have to stand up for themselves. I guess you can either decide to oppress them even more or throw them the few bones they are asking for. If you need them this much, then why are people being so gosh darn stingy about giving them their vaccines, their air filters, and their hazard pay. Show them they are worth something other than the crap you scrape off your shoes. You think they already have cushy jobs? Try volunteering in a classroom for one week before you make that judgment.
I don’t blame them, but I think it has changed some people’s perceptions of teachers. If you previously viewed teaching as a calling, as something people chose to do despite the pay because of their commitment to children and their education (and advocated for increased pay because you felt that they were worth far more than they were being compensated), this experience may have taken some of the shine off.
Anonymous
01/03/2021 08:46
Subject: Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
Anonymous wrote:Wow.. I just took a deeper look at the APE website. It's very impressive how much the group is advocating for a safe return to school.
Are they pushing for entrance & surveillance testing?
How are they pressuring the county and state?
Anonymous
01/03/2021 08:42
Subject: Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
Wow.. I just took a deeper look at the APE website. It's very impressive how much the group is advocating for a safe return to school.
Anonymous
01/03/2021 02:37
Subject: Re:Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The timing of collective bargaining starting May 1 is unfortunate, because it gives AEA a lot of incentive to take a very hard line right now. They’re worried that any inch they gone now will affect the contract they can negotiate in the spring, so they’re not going to give an inch on reopening until their contract is done.
? - But they don’t have any real power now. Plus, they really don’t speak for all teachers.
They don’t have the legal authority to set policy, but they absolutely have power. If AEA came to its members and said they believed schools could open safely now if APS did X,Y, and Z, you would see a lot more teachers getting on board with the idea (and indicating a willingness to return to in-school education). Instead, what we have right now is AEA insisting there’s no way school could be safely reopened at any time this year and demanding that APS make the decision now to stay virtual the entire year, and encouraging their members to take the same approaching by instead indicating that they do not want to return to in-school learning (hence the concerns about adequate staffing). AEA is worried that any compromise they agree to now will be a foregone conclusion in contract negotiations, and that they’ll have to negotiate off that compromise point rather than the extreme position they’re taking now.
From a pure negotiating standpoint, it’s the right strategy for them, but no one should be under any illusion that their position on reopening is considering student needs. It’s all about contract negotiation.
Ah, well. Unfortunately, we live in the land of self interest. Can you blame them? Well, I guess a lot of folks do. I don’t. How else are they going to survive in a country where greedy men take all that they can? Mothers, teachers, social workers, nurses - all those people who give and give and give — have to stand up for themselves. I guess you can either decide to oppress them even more or throw them the few bones they are asking for. If you need them this much, then why are people being so gosh darn stingy about giving them their vaccines, their air filters, and their hazard pay. Show them they are worth something other than the crap you scrape off your shoes. You think they already have cushy jobs? Try volunteering in a classroom for one week before you make that judgment.
Anonymous
01/03/2021 00:23
Subject: Re:Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The timing of collective bargaining starting May 1 is unfortunate, because it gives AEA a lot of incentive to take a very hard line right now. They’re worried that any inch they gone now will affect the contract they can negotiate in the spring, so they’re not going to give an inch on reopening until their contract is done.
? - But they don’t have any real power now. Plus, they really don’t speak for all teachers.
They don’t have the legal authority to set policy, but they absolutely have power. If AEA came to its members and said they believed schools could open safely now if APS did X,Y, and Z, you would see a lot more teachers getting on board with the idea (and indicating a willingness to return to in-school education). Instead, what we have right now is AEA insisting there’s no way school could be safely reopened at any time this year and demanding that APS make the decision now to stay virtual the entire year, and encouraging their members to take the same approaching by instead indicating that they do not want to return to in-school learning (hence the concerns about adequate staffing). AEA is worried that any compromise they agree to now will be a foregone conclusion in contract negotiations, and that they’ll have to negotiate off that compromise point rather than the extreme position they’re taking now.
From a pure negotiating standpoint, it’s the right strategy for them, but no one should be under any illusion that their position on reopening is considering student needs. It’s all about contract negotiation.
Anonymous
01/03/2021 00:14
Subject: Re:Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
Anonymous wrote:The timing of collective bargaining starting May 1 is unfortunate, because it gives AEA a lot of incentive to take a very hard line right now. They’re worried that any inch they gone now will affect the contract they can negotiate in the spring, so they’re not going to give an inch on reopening until their contract is done.
? - But they don’t have any real power now. Plus, they really don’t speak for all teachers.
Anonymous
01/03/2021 00:09
Subject: Re:Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
The timing of collective bargaining starting May 1 is unfortunate, because it gives AEA a lot of incentive to take a very hard line right now. They’re worried that any inch they gone now will affect the contract they can negotiate in the spring, so they’re not going to give an inch on reopening until their contract is done.
Anonymous
01/02/2021 22:17
Subject: Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. 19 cases in a preschool. That IS significant. How can that be if they are staying 6 feet and wearing masks?
THEY ARENT, welcome to what teachers have been saying for months. Mitigation does not work once you have too many kids to meaningfully monitor it constantly.
pretty sure our elementary teachers aren't changing diapers and putting our kids down for naps, etc...
Nope, we will be in close proximity to help with a math problem, help with the proper way to hold a pencil or scissors, or view an unknown word from a book, just to name a few.
DP. But you’ve already told us you won’t be, that hybrid will be a terrible environment specifically because you won’t be allowed to do those things. Which is it?
Different teacher. I’m not elementary but I can say 100-% I’m not going to a kids desk and they’re not coming to mine in school. I’m not breaking that 6 feet because if I do and later get CoVID, they’ll claim I couldn’t have gotten it at school since the 6 foot protocol exists.
+1 As a parent I applaud that. I don't think you should go within 6' of any student and I think that every student should have a mask on 100% of the time. I cannot believe teachers will be asked/voluntold to return to school when it is still so unsafe.
How do you know it’s unsafe?
Anonymous
01/02/2021 21:49
Subject: Re:Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
Random reactions from me, who didn't read the whole thread:
-I predict Duran doesn't open in January. Instead, predict he follows some type of guidance from the Biden Administration.
-Predict said Biden Administration guidance provides for testing/etc that requires funding. If Congress doesn't give the funding, County Board truly should
-Predict school opens Fall 2021, 50-50 if it will be 5 days per week or hybrid. But opens in some form, I put those odds 60-to-1.
-I predict Duran doesn't open in January. Instead, predict he follows some type of guidance from the Biden Administration.
-Predict said Biden Administration guidance provides for testing/etc that requires funding. If Congress doesn't give the funding, County Board truly should
-Predict school opens Fall 2021, 50-50 if it will be 5 days per week or hybrid. But opens in some form, I put those odds 60-to-1.
Anonymous
01/02/2021 21:36
Subject: Re:Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Look you need to stop looking at a Facebook parent group as if they have any power, they can’t make up any conditions of employment but to answer your question, no I do not trust all my fellow staff to be safe and wear masks faithfully. Plenty of teachers are living life as usual, traveling, lax with masks. They’re the ones least worried about going back but yeah we all have to work with them even when we are really careful.
Correct. I teach with a team of much younger teachers and they are taking risks with travel and going out that make me extremely uncomfortable. I don’t feel lie I can work closely with them with their behavior and doing so puts mr at risk. Not to mention the kids aspect.
I'm a parent and I don't trust the other families. So many are traveling, allowing kids into each others homes to hang out unmasked. These are the ones who will be in school. Assume the careful ones will stay virtual.
I do think this is true. Anecdotally, the families I know who are skiing in Colorado or at Disney or the Caribbean chose hybrid. Everyone I know who chose DL stayed home. I’m sure that’s not universal. But it was among the people I know.
Interesting. Among my social circle, there doesn’t seem to be any correlation between travel and hybrid/virtual status.
Anonymous
01/02/2021 21:34
Subject: Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. 19 cases in a preschool. That IS significant. How can that be if they are staying 6 feet and wearing masks?
THEY ARENT, welcome to what teachers have been saying for months. Mitigation does not work once you have too many kids to meaningfully monitor it constantly.
pretty sure our elementary teachers aren't changing diapers and putting our kids down for naps, etc...
Nope, we will be in close proximity to help with a math problem, help with the proper way to hold a pencil or scissors, or view an unknown word from a book, just to name a few.
DP. But you’ve already told us you won’t be, that hybrid will be a terrible environment specifically because you won’t be allowed to do those things. Which is it?
Different teacher. I’m not elementary but I can say 100-% I’m not going to a kids desk and they’re not coming to mine in school. I’m not breaking that 6 feet because if I do and later get CoVID, they’ll claim I couldn’t have gotten it at school since the 6 foot protocol exists.
+1 As a parent I applaud that. I don't think you should go within 6' of any student and I think that every student should have a mask on 100% of the time. I cannot believe teachers will be asked/voluntold to return to school when it is still so unsafe.
Anonymous
01/02/2021 21:31
Subject: Re:Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Look you need to stop looking at a Facebook parent group as if they have any power, they can’t make up any conditions of employment but to answer your question, no I do not trust all my fellow staff to be safe and wear masks faithfully. Plenty of teachers are living life as usual, traveling, lax with masks. They’re the ones least worried about going back but yeah we all have to work with them even when we are really careful.
Correct. I teach with a team of much younger teachers and they are taking risks with travel and going out that make me extremely uncomfortable. I don’t feel lie I can work closely with them with their behavior and doing so puts mr at risk. Not to mention the kids aspect.
I'm a parent and I don't trust the other families. So many are traveling, allowing kids into each others homes to hang out unmasked. These are the ones who will be in school. Assume the careful ones will stay virtual.
+1 Another parent concurring. Some of the behaviors I am seeing with other families makes me very worried about the safety of reopening schools...as in, it won't be safe.
Anonymous
01/02/2021 20:27
Subject: Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
My kids are at a different preschool/daycare that also had an outbreak at the beginning of December. They are doing cohorts, everyone is wearing over the age of two is wearing a mask anytime they are awake and not eating, there is no sharing of toys, and there is a six feet distance maintained all the time. One kid in a four year old class got it, and there were five positive cases in the same class, and then the center closed for two weeks at the direction of the health department. Just in time to open a day before closing for Christmas! They didn’t tell us how many other people got it.
If the parents hadn’t alerted the school about the positive case, and the center hadn’t quarantined that class immediately, and hadn’t alerted the health department, who knows how bad it could have gotten. This is a highly contagious virus, and masks work, but they aren’t 100% if you are indoors all day.
If the parents hadn’t alerted the school about the positive case, and the center hadn’t quarantined that class immediately, and hadn’t alerted the health department, who knows how bad it could have gotten. This is a highly contagious virus, and masks work, but they aren’t 100% if you are indoors all day.
Anonymous
01/02/2021 19:30
Subject: Has Duran gone mad? (APS)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. 19 cases in a preschool. That IS significant. How can that be if they are staying 6 feet and wearing masks?
Sigh. Because "six feet and masks" HELPS, but is far from 100%. They are not a magic wand.
Prolonged indoor gatherings are unsafe, period.
That’s pretty much schools and offices.