Anonymous
Post 10/18/2017 13:43     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Well, let's all wait and see what happens with the soon-to-be "other" county-wide "choice" school. Next year Campbell will be county-wide - it is currently for south arlington families only.

Campbell is a title I school by choice, with about 60% of the kids on fr/l. The majority of the kids entering K are from the large VPI program at the school. Only about 20 or so non-VPI kids get in via lottery. In the past, there was little to no wait list - that has changed. I don't know if it is the continuation of higher SES south arlington families opting out of failing neighborhood schools, or Campbell's unique (and I hear terrific) "Expeditionary Learning" teaching method. That is not a school full of worksheets, it is hands on, project-based learning.

If you look at the scores for the white kids - they are on par with north arlington schools. And, even the fr/l kids are doing pretty darn well.

So, will north arlington parents flock to Campbell? Will they make noise about the large VPI class taking up most of the seats? Or will they avoid the school because of the title I status? That will tell you a lot.

I don't know -- I think a lot is driven by convenience and not some base urge to avoid Title I status. I live in N. Arlington and don't want to have my kid at a school on the other side of town -- it's just too far. Most people who live in Arlington are driven by convenience -- we work in DC and want short commutes with good public schools. If convenience wasn't important to me I'd live on the water in Annapolis.


DP, but convenience only seems to matter when all else is equal. Convenience is rarely prioritized over a "better" school. That's why people are willing to drive miles away to private schools, and it's why some families put their kids on buses to option schools farther away from their homes, because they think they're getting something better for their trouble. So, I think the question we have to ask ourselves is: what makes a school "good" or "great" in our minds, and is it possible that our own definition could be based in implicit racism? And maybe, what duty do policy makers have to countermand what the community says it wants, if what it wants is inherently flawed and has a negative impact on neighborhood schools that are high poverty (i.e. do they become higher poverty as families with choices seek to avoid them)? I don't have the answers. But I have a lot of questions, ones I've asked of myself in an attempt to better understand my own choices which may or may not have contributed (negatively) to the issue. I'm honestly looking to have a conversation, not pick a fight.
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2017 11:44     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:Well, let's all wait and see what happens with the soon-to-be "other" county-wide "choice" school. Next year Campbell will be county-wide - it is currently for south arlington families only.

Campbell is a title I school by choice, with about 60% of the kids on fr/l. The majority of the kids entering K are from the large VPI program at the school. Only about 20 or so non-VPI kids get in via lottery. In the past, there was little to no wait list - that has changed. I don't know if it is the continuation of higher SES south arlington families opting out of failing neighborhood schools, or Campbell's unique (and I hear terrific) "Expeditionary Learning" teaching method. That is not a school full of worksheets, it is hands on, project-based learning.

If you look at the scores for the white kids - they are on par with north arlington schools. And, even the fr/l kids are doing pretty darn well.

So, will north arlington parents flock to Campbell? Will they make noise about the large VPI class taking up most of the seats? Or will they avoid the school because of the title I status? That will tell you a lot.

I don't know -- I think a lot is driven by convenience and not some base urge to avoid Title I status. I live in N. Arlington and don't want to have my kid at a school on the other side of town -- it's just too far. Most people who live in Arlington are driven by convenience -- we work in DC and want short commutes with good public schools. If convenience wasn't important to me I'd live on the water in Annapolis.
Anonymous
Post 10/18/2017 11:24     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Well, let's all wait and see what happens with the soon-to-be "other" county-wide "choice" school. Next year Campbell will be county-wide - it is currently for south arlington families only.

Campbell is a title I school by choice, with about 60% of the kids on fr/l. The majority of the kids entering K are from the large VPI program at the school. Only about 20 or so non-VPI kids get in via lottery. In the past, there was little to no wait list - that has changed. I don't know if it is the continuation of higher SES south arlington families opting out of failing neighborhood schools, or Campbell's unique (and I hear terrific) "Expeditionary Learning" teaching method. That is not a school full of worksheets, it is hands on, project-based learning.

If you look at the scores for the white kids - they are on par with north arlington schools. And, even the fr/l kids are doing pretty darn well.

So, will north arlington parents flock to Campbell? Will they make noise about the large VPI class taking up most of the seats? Or will they avoid the school because of the title I status? That will tell you a lot.
Anonymous
Post 10/17/2017 10:27     Subject: Re:APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:The point is whether rich white North Arlington shuns ATS. The answer is no. With VPI and subsequent admissions in kindergarten, the FARMS and minority rates will increase. Will there be white flight? I doubt it if test scores remain high.
The point is that the underlying motivation behind North Arlingtonians' "choices" is not racism.


And if the school admitted 50% of its' students from the VPI program, I suspect current families in-bounds for a "great" school wouldn't be as motivated to attend ATS.
Anonymous
Post 10/17/2017 09:08     Subject: Re:APS middle school boundary process
The point is whether rich white North Arlington shuns ATS. The answer is no. With VPI and subsequent admissions in kindergarten, the FARMS and minority rates will increase. Will there be white flight? I doubt it if test scores remain high.
The point is that the underlying motivation behind North Arlingtonians' "choices" is not racism.
Anonymous
Post 10/17/2017 07:44     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not true, PP. More than half of ATS is coming from higher FARMS. There would likely be more, but a lot of the FARMS Parents don’t speak English and don’t jnow they have a choice. There is also a contingent from Ashlawn for convenience.

The lowest FARMS schools only have 20 or less total kids at ATS. Wonder why?


Do you have a cite for this?
Part of the issue is that ATS now has a VPI preschool class, which by definition draws in high FARMS kids. They are automatically granted admission into ATS for kindergarten.
My kids went there pre-VPI and North Arlington was over-represented.


Yes - Pupil Transfer Report:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Transfer-Report-2016-17.pdf

Then look at FARMS rates:
https://www.apsva.us/statistics/free-and-reduced-price-meals/


The data doesn't support your conclusion. Carlin Springs, the highest poverty school, has an equal number of transfers to the lowest poverty school, Discovery. There is no public data available to determine whether the students themselves are eligible for fr/l.

Anonymous
Post 10/17/2017 06:46     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not true, PP. More than half of ATS is coming from higher FARMS. There would likely be more, but a lot of the FARMS Parents don’t speak English and don’t jnow they have a choice. There is also a contingent from Ashlawn for convenience.

The lowest FARMS schools only have 20 or less total kids at ATS. Wonder why?


Do you have a cite for this?
Part of the issue is that ATS now has a VPI preschool class, which by definition draws in high FARMS kids. They are automatically granted admission into ATS for kindergarten.
My kids went there pre-VPI and North Arlington was over-represented.


Yes - Pupil Transfer Report:
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Transfer-Report-2016-17.pdf

Then look at FARMS rates:
https://www.apsva.us/statistics/free-and-reduced-price-meals/
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2017 22:29     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not true, PP. More than half of ATS is coming from higher FARMS. There would likely be more, but a lot of the FARMS Parents don’t speak English and don’t jnow they have a choice. There is also a contingent from Ashlawn for convenience.

The lowest FARMS schools only have 20 or less total kids at ATS. Wonder why?


Do you have a cite for this?
Part of the issue is that ATS now has a VPI preschool class, which by definition draws in high FARMS kids. They are automatically granted admission into ATS for kindergarten.
My kids went there pre-VPI and North Arlington was over-represented.


It's a totally false statement- and one that is easily disproven.
just look at the transfer report- https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Transfer-Report-2016-17.pdf
The only sending schools that send less than 20 students to ATS are Randolph at 13; Jamestown at 14, Drew at 14, Hoffman-Boston at 15, Long Branch at 19. While Jamestown has a super low FARMS rate- Randoph Drew and Hoffman-Boston all have relatively high FARMS rates.

And to go ahead and debunk the idea that it is people fleeing high poverty schools at ATS- ATS has the largest numbers from Ashlawn(54) and Mckinley (47).


I’d rather know the percentage. So what if Randolph is only sending 13 kids? How many non Farm’s kid are zoned to that school? Not a large number.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2017 22:09     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not true, PP. More than half of ATS is coming from higher FARMS. There would likely be more, but a lot of the FARMS Parents don’t speak English and don’t jnow they have a choice. There is also a contingent from Ashlawn for convenience.

The lowest FARMS schools only have 20 or less total kids at ATS. Wonder why?


Do you have a cite for this?
Part of the issue is that ATS now has a VPI preschool class, which by definition draws in high FARMS kids. They are automatically granted admission into ATS for kindergarten.
My kids went there pre-VPI and North Arlington was over-represented.


It's a totally false statement- and one that is easily disproven.
just look at the transfer report- https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Transfer-Report-2016-17.pdf
The only sending schools that send less than 20 students to ATS are Randolph at 13; Jamestown at 14, Drew at 14, Hoffman-Boston at 15, Long Branch at 19. While Jamestown has a super low FARMS rate- Randoph Drew and Hoffman-Boston all have relatively high FARMS rates.

And to go ahead and debunk the idea that it is people fleeing high poverty schools at ATS- ATS has the largest numbers from Ashlawn(54) and Mckinley (47).
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2017 19:54     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:God, why would anyone think that schools with large numbers of poor black children are unsafe spaces?


Ah, bc schools with large numbers of poor black children are unsafe.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2017 17:11     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:Not true, PP. More than half of ATS is coming from higher FARMS. There would likely be more, but a lot of the FARMS Parents don’t speak English and don’t jnow they have a choice. There is also a contingent from Ashlawn for convenience.

The lowest FARMS schools only have 20 or less total kids at ATS. Wonder why?


Do you have a cite for this?
Part of the issue is that ATS now has a VPI preschool class, which by definition draws in high FARMS kids. They are automatically granted admission into ATS for kindergarten.
My kids went there pre-VPI and North Arlington was over-represented.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2017 15:59     Subject: APS middle school boundary process
Not true, PP. More than half of ATS is coming from higher FARMS. There would likely be more, but a lot of the FARMS Parents don’t speak English and don’t jnow they have a choice. There is also a contingent from Ashlawn for convenience.

The lowest FARMS schools only have 20 or less total kids at ATS. Wonder why?
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2017 15:17     Subject: Re:APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Lottery winners for ATS are capped at the same level for each neighborhood schools. The waitlists are longer for the North Arlington neighborhoods.


Not true. That's HB. ATS is a "double-blind" lottery with no neighborhood caps.


Sorry, you are correct.
Students at ATS are disproportionately white and to the extent that their neighborhood schools have low FARMS rates, their parent a choosing a school with more minorities and higher FARMS rates.
Similarly, HB has a higher FARMS rate than Yorktown, Williamsburg and Swanson (slightly) and has larger waitlists in NA.

What's probably going on here is that parents are looking for higher test scores independent of both SES and racial composition.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2017 14:02     Subject: Re:APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:Lottery winners for ATS are capped at the same level for each neighborhood schools. The waitlists are longer for the North Arlington neighborhoods.


I thought it was a County-wide lottery. Our lottery number was higher than the number of kids in our neighborhood Kindergarten. HB has waiting lists by school, but ATS does not.
Anonymous
Post 10/16/2017 13:58     Subject: Re:APS middle school boundary process
Anonymous wrote:Lottery winners for ATS are capped at the same level for each neighborhood schools. The waitlists are longer for the North Arlington neighborhoods.


Not true. That's HB. ATS is a "double-blind" lottery with no neighborhood caps.