You misunderstand. It is impossible to make any major change in anything without major backlash.

What is wrong with a more incremental and reflective approach? Why is top down being done? It resonates the wrong way with teachers. Some things that are forced don't work (and have to be repealed). Repealing laws has happened more than a few times in the history of the US. There has to be ground support. If you want to get more kids to do better in school, work at your state and local level (especially your local level). And, please, don't hand them a test. There is real work and learning to be done.

You misunderstand. It is impossible to make any major change in anything without major backlash.

You don't understand how this tears apart the social fabric of this country. You don't understand the damage done when major change is pushed without enough debate and buy in. Especially buy in from those most affected.

Also can't say with any specificity whatsoever how exactly the standards are bad. It's just "they are bad" and "we know this" but no direct evidence to provide any basis for how it's "known" - no studies or analyses, no data, let alone any specific standard being cited, no correlation, no causality, we are all just supposed to take it on "faith" that the standards are bad.

This has become a political issue because the writers and promoters of the standards were not careful enough to prevent it from becoming one. Whether the standards are "bad" or "good" is not even the issue anymore. It's about who is running the schools and for what purpose. It's about who is becoming the doormat and who thinks they "know best". The whole thing has become way bigger than "data". The whole thing is toxic now. Obama would do well to act the populist and not to veto the NCLB testing mandate changes. The people have spoken and it's pretty loud and clear. Those who don't accept it do so at their own political peril (of course he has no political future, but some Democrats do). He would honestly do well to let NCLB change and then go for immigration reform. Immigration reform is much more important and he needs to show that he's willing to work with Congress right now (no more executive orders that are not popularly supported).

Anonymous wrote:

We don't agree that it was possible to do this without any possibility of backlash. In fact I think it would be impossible to do it without major backlash.

And this is why it is failing. Because you thought that it would be impossible to do this the way it should be done.

You misunderstand. It is impossible to make any major change in anything without major backlash.

We don't agree that it was possible to do this without any possibility of backlash. In fact I think it would be impossible to do it without major backlash.

And this is why it is failing. Because you thought that it would be impossible to do this the way it should be done.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The CC standards are going to be changed. It's just a matter of time. It's what happens with standards. The debate that is going on now is good because it may very well be that what we come up with in the end will be a much more reasonable and workable document. Lots of people are poring over these standards and debating them right now. This is all good. What we want are standards that improve the whole educational process. The PP wants more specifics and if he wants those, he needs to work more closely with people who are actually in schools using these standards (and not hang out on DCUM---because people on here are not all using the standards). I know that I cannot give him the detail that he is seeking. Sorry.

I also think it is important to ask ourselves how money is spent because we, the taxpayers, are entrusting our money to our representatives and we do want to see if we are getting any bang for our buck (and who is profiting---is it the students or the testing companies). Do you wonder why people don't want to pay higher taxes?

I don't understand. You know that the Common Core standards are bad, but you're not qualified to say why you know this?

Also can't say with any specificity whatsoever how exactly the standards are bad. It's just "they are bad" and "we know this" but no direct evidence to provide any basis for how it's "known" - no studies or analyses, no data, let alone any specific standard being cited, no correlation, no causality, we are all just supposed to take it on "faith" that the standards are bad.

What a complete crock these anti-CCers are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't understand. You know that the Common Core standards are bad, but you're not qualified to say why you know this?

Here is something that we both can understand. We both know that there was not enough data and vetting to roll these out to all the states and to create tests based on them. We know this because neither one of us is coming up with enough "data" to satisfy the other person. It's too simplistic to use the word "bad". This introduction of new standards is a complicated process that some people tried to avoid, but now it is coming home to roost. It's a big enough deal that there should have been a process that was clean and without any possibility of backlash (you obviously don't have that based on what is happening). Changing all the tests in America (GED, SAT, ACT, and standardized tests) just added to how huge this all is.

We know there are problems because of the anecdotal information coming from schools (this thread started with a teacher quitting and there are many more who are not happy, but have not quit). We know there are problems because of the comments coming from parents as well. We know that change takes time and that change is often a process that requires much adjustment and input from all the people involved. Without the buy in from key players, change is either unlikely to occur or be resented (and even sabotaged).

We disagree that there was not enough data and "vetting".

We agree that the introduction of new standards is a complicated process.

We don't agree that it was possible to do this without any possibility of backlash. In fact I think it would be impossible to do it without major backlash.

We agree that there are problems with implementation, but we disagree about what this means.

You complain about "not enough data" but where is your hard data and where are your studies to support the anti-CC arguments that the standards are bad / inappropriate / et cetera?

We've been asking for this for weeks, you still have failed to deliver.

Well?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If the anti-Common Core poster wants to make any more statements, they will have to be backed up with hard evidence and data. Opinions will not suffice. Statements without data will not be accepted.

Who are you? The police for DCUM???

Just someone who's fed up with unsubstantiated bullshit.

There are many. many, many anti Common Core posters on all the threads. You are delusional if you think otherwise.

Many, many? LMAO? More likely at best it's just 2 or 3 who are prolific posters, because it's constantly the exact same language and phrases being repeated over and over.

Anonymous wrote:

We disagree that there was not enough data and "vetting".

"Enough"--how about NONE.

For the record, I am not either PP.

Now we can go back to what you consider data and what you consider "vetting". We've probably gone around and around about this at least 20 times, but let's do it again!

We disagree that there was not enough data and "vetting".

"Enough"--how about NONE.

For the record, I am not either PP.

Anonymous wrote:

I don't understand. You know that the Common Core standards are bad, but you're not qualified to say why you know this?

Here is something that we both can understand. We both know that there was not enough data and vetting to roll these out to all the states and to create tests based on them. We know this because neither one of us is coming up with enough "data" to satisfy the other person. It's too simplistic to use the word "bad". This introduction of new standards is a complicated process that some people tried to avoid, but now it is coming home to roost. It's a big enough deal that there should have been a process that was clean and without any possibility of backlash (you obviously don't have that based on what is happening). Changing all the tests in America (GED, SAT, ACT, and standardized tests) just added to how huge this all is.

We know there are problems because of the anecdotal information coming from schools (this thread started with a teacher quitting and there are many more who are not happy, but have not quit). We know there are problems because of the comments coming from parents as well. We know that change takes time and that change is often a process that requires much adjustment and input from all the people involved. Without the buy in from key players, change is either unlikely to occur or be resented (and even sabotaged).

We disagree that there was not enough data and "vetting".

We agree that the introduction of new standards is a complicated process.

We don't agree that it was possible to do this without any possibility of backlash. In fact I think it would be impossible to do it without major backlash.

We agree that there are problems with implementation, but we disagree about what this means.

WAPO says that Obama will veto the bill that Congress is passing to eliminate testing portion of NCLB. That's a shame. I think liberals and conservatives agree on that.

Wow. Big mistake. I'm a liberal.

I don't understand. You know that the Common Core standards are bad, but you're not qualified to say why you know this?

Here is something that we both can understand. We both know that there was not enough data and vetting to roll these out to all the states and to create tests based on them. We know this because neither one of us is coming up with enough "data" to satisfy the other person. It's too simplistic to use the word "bad". This introduction of new standards is a complicated process that some people tried to avoid, but now it is coming home to roost. It's a big enough deal that there should have been a process that was clean and without any possibility of backlash (you obviously don't have that based on what is happening). Changing all the tests in America (GED, SAT, ACT, and standardized tests) just added to how huge this all is.

We know there are problems because of the anecdotal information coming from schools (this thread started with a teacher quitting and there are many more who are not happy, but have not quit). We know there are problems because of the comments coming from parents as well. We know that change takes time and that change is often a process that requires much adjustment and input from all the people involved. Without the buy in from key players, change is either unlikely to occur or be resented (and even sabotaged). It would not be the first time. So . . . effecting change has to be done carefully and correctly. That is why so many people on here are complaining about the process (and you seem to think process does not matter). But, life is definitely about the journey. If you insist on holding to your Machiavellian views, you are going to be disappointed. History is about how things have happened. We don't just say "x or y" happened. It's like the CC math emphasis actually. We need to know how we got an answer. You, of all people, should understand this. I think it's a testament to the American people that they want to think critically and analyze what is going on around them. We should applaud those who care about how their sausage is made. Our founding fathers cared very much about this as they knew that the sausage making in England was not good for them (even though sausage was being produced).

I think most people just want a moratorium on the testing so that they can work through the CC and make it relevant and usable for their students. I can tell you that years of testing and being told you are deficient is quite demoralizing. Years of being told that teachers are not doing things right has gotten very old. We just need a break! Standards need to be what students CAN do, not what they CANNOT do. And if we aren't perfect, well, please forgive us. Please know that we are trying to help students learn and improve every day. We're trying, but when we keep getting beat down, some of us do give up (and quit like the subject of this thread). And, make no mistake, she was a great teacher. She cared A LOT. She had the passion. Those will be the first to go (and many already have).

I can't wait for Arne Duncan to be gone. We need a champion for the teachers. The teachers have no one (the unions died a long time ago).

This has to be done right.

I voted for Obama twice. I think Romney would have been better now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If the anti-Common Core poster wants to make any more statements, they will have to be backed up with hard evidence and data. Opinions will not suffice. Statements without data will not be accepted.

Who are you? The police for DCUM???

Just someone who's fed up with unsubstantiated bullshit.

There are many. many, many anti Common Core posters on all the threads. You are delusional if you think otherwise.

WAPO says that Obama will veto the bill that Congress is passing to eliminate testing portion of NCLB. That's a shame. I think liberals and conservatives agree on that.