Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 15:51     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have been reading DCUM for a while now, and I feel steeped in broken marriages, angry/depressed/overwhelmed parents, misbehaving children, and general snarkiness. Almost never do I see a reference to a deep and profound faith, or even a thought about a Creator. I do see plenty of snide comments about faith being only for the stupid, the weak, the unthinking, but I can't recall a single specific reason as to why belief in a Creator is so obviously dumb.

So now is your chance: if you do not believe in God, why not? Have you wrestled with this question and constructed a tight argument, or do you just not particularly care?


I'm happily married with two wonderful kids, and a part-time career that I find rewarding.

I'm also an atheist.

I don't have faith. I don't feel it. I have no experience of God. I don't feel the need. I can't get to God rationally, either. I don't agree with many, many things Christianity teaches, especially about sexuality. I tried really hard to find faith, but it's just not there. I finally gave up and accepted that I don't believe. I was raised as a Catholic. It was a hard step for me.



It actually does not really matter what you believe. What matters is what is true, what is real. You could believe you can fly, or that the moon is made of green cheese, but that would be your misfortune. The truth would stand independent of your beliefs.

That is the case for God. And that is the case for morality.

The truth about right and wrong is independent of our beliefs about right and wrong. It has to be. Because either it is independent, or it is dependent. And if it is dependent, then it is not really right and wrong at all. It is just an opinion.

Start at the beginning. Start with morality.
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 15:50     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Okay, I'm typing on my phone so I didn't feel like going into the 20 other reasons why I don't believe in God or know what I believe. But yes, this is one of the more pervasive reasons I have. The idea of religion/church/God is wrapped together and if so many of the more fervent religious people I have encountered in my life are also the ones that smack their kids for no good reason and treat others badly and not know they are mean (I have greater respect for people who own up to their actions, right or wrong) then I'm going to be doubtful about the institution of religion as a whole. Btw: wasn't the point of this thread to ask each person their own reason? No, I didn't draw this conclusion based on a handful of people, it's been years and years of thought, sorry I wasn't able to encapsulate every reason for you.


If I said, "I believe, because the nicest person I ever met was a nun" would this make sense to you? Probably not. But it's analogous to your rationale.


Deciding whether or not you believe in God is a very personal choice, it wouldn't make sense to me because I'm not you. If that made you believe, go for it, why would I care?

If someone said to you they don't believe in God because their child died at a young age, would you judge them for making that decision based on that one incident?

Like I said before, there are other reasons why I don't, not just this one, nor was there "just one person" that has made me feel this way. For what it's worth, I went to a religious university and was made to take theology courses as requirements and so I've contemplated this before. Maybe I chose to write about this reason because it has been on my mind recently.
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 14:57     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:
Okay, I'm typing on my phone so I didn't feel like going into the 20 other reasons why I don't believe in God or know what I believe. But yes, this is one of the more pervasive reasons I have. The idea of religion/church/God is wrapped together and if so many of the more fervent religious people I have encountered in my life are also the ones that smack their kids for no good reason and treat others badly and not know they are mean (I have greater respect for people who own up to their actions, right or wrong) then I'm going to be doubtful about the institution of religion as a whole. Btw: wasn't the point of this thread to ask each person their own reason? No, I didn't draw this conclusion based on a handful of people, it's been years and years of thought, sorry I wasn't able to encapsulate every reason for you.


If I said, "I believe, because the nicest person I ever met was a nun" would this make sense to you? Probably not. But it's analogous to your rationale.
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 14:56     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have met too many over-religious people who were terribly dishonest and downright mean, but felt so righteous about having faith that they believed themselves to be good when they were anything but. Religion, therefore, is a farce to me, where most of the truly nice and good people I know don't have much religion, or if they do, they are quiet about it an not overly bound to their church/synagogue. The notion of God, as an extension of what I've observed, doesn't make sense in the way that "religious" people view him or her.


See, this is when thoughtful people of all degrees of belief and disbelief disengage, and walk away from threads like this. You seem to have met all types of religious people, yet you have formed very biased opinions based on one extreme of your interactions. Then, we can't even begin to guess how you managed to translate these bad personal experiences into some theological argument pro or con.


Okay, I'm typing on my phone so I didn't feel like going into the 20 other reasons why I don't believe in God or know what I believe. But yes, this is one of the more pervasive reasons I have. The idea of religion/church/God is wrapped together and if so many of the more fervent religious people I have encountered in my life are also the ones that smack their kids for no good reason and treat others badly and not know they are mean (I have greater respect for people who own up to their actions, right or wrong) then I'm going to be doubtful about the institution of religion as a whole. Btw: wasn't the point of this thread to ask each person their own reason? No, I didn't draw this conclusion based on a handful of people, it's been years and years of thought, sorry I wasn't able to encapsulate every reason for you.


And I wanted to add, I have wonderful friends who go to church/synagogue and I don't judge them or think they're wrong for believing, I just don't believe.
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 14:55     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have met too many over-religious people who were terribly dishonest and downright mean, but felt so righteous about having faith that they believed themselves to be good when they were anything but. Religion, therefore, is a farce to me, where most of the truly nice and good people I know don't have much religion, or if they do, they are quiet about it an not overly bound to their church/synagogue. The notion of God, as an extension of what I've observed, doesn't make sense in the way that "religious" people view him or her.


So you've met some bad religious people and some good religious people ... and you conclude that all religion is a "farce"? Uh, OK.

And there are atheists on this very thread making cracks about fairy tales and flying spaghetti monsters. Talk about downright mean and self righteous. But you don't have double standards, do you?


New poster. I believe that people are bad or good because of themselves, not their religion or lack of religion. However, people who are bad, but use religion to cloak their badness make me insane. I hate them.
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 14:54     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have met too many over-religious people who were terribly dishonest and downright mean, but felt so righteous about having faith that they believed themselves to be good when they were anything but. Religion, therefore, is a farce to me, where most of the truly nice and good people I know don't have much religion, or if they do, they are quiet about it an not overly bound to their church/synagogue. The notion of God, as an extension of what I've observed, doesn't make sense in the way that "religious" people view him or her.


See, this is when thoughtful people of all degrees of belief and disbelief disengage, and walk away from threads like this. You seem to have met all types of religious people, yet you have formed very biased opinions based on one extreme of your interactions. Then, we can't even begin to guess how you managed to translate these bad personal experiences into some theological argument pro or con.


Okay, I'm typing on my phone so I didn't feel like going into the 20 other reasons why I don't believe in God or know what I believe. But yes, this is one of the more pervasive reasons I have. The idea of religion/church/God is wrapped together and if so many of the more fervent religious people I have encountered in my life are also the ones that smack their kids for no good reason and treat others badly and not know they are mean (I have greater respect for people who own up to their actions, right or wrong) then I'm going to be doubtful about the institution of religion as a whole. Btw: wasn't the point of this thread to ask each person their own reason? No, I didn't draw this conclusion based on a handful of people, it's been years and years of thought, sorry I wasn't able to encapsulate every reason for you.
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 14:53     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:I have been reading DCUM for a while now, and I feel steeped in broken marriages, angry/depressed/overwhelmed parents, misbehaving children, and general snarkiness. Almost never do I see a reference to a deep and profound faith, or even a thought about a Creator. I do see plenty of snide comments about faith being only for the stupid, the weak, the unthinking, but I can't recall a single specific reason as to why belief in a Creator is so obviously dumb.

So now is your chance: if you do not believe in God, why not? Have you wrestled with this question and constructed a tight argument, or do you just not particularly care?


I'm happily married with two wonderful kids, and a part-time career that I find rewarding.

I'm also an atheist.

I don't have faith. I don't feel it. I have no experience of God. I don't feel the need. I can't get to God rationally, either. I don't agree with many, many things Christianity teaches, especially about sexuality. I tried really hard to find faith, but it's just not there. I finally gave up and accepted that I don't believe. I was raised as a Catholic. It was a hard step for me.

Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 14:44     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:I have met too many over-religious people who were terribly dishonest and downright mean, but felt so righteous about having faith that they believed themselves to be good when they were anything but. Religion, therefore, is a farce to me, where most of the truly nice and good people I know don't have much religion, or if they do, they are quiet about it an not overly bound to their church/synagogue. The notion of God, as an extension of what I've observed, doesn't make sense in the way that "religious" people view him or her.


See, this is when thoughtful people of all degrees of belief and disbelief disengage, and walk away from threads like this. You seem to have met all types of religious people, yet you have formed very biased opinions based on one extreme of your interactions. Then, we can't even begin to guess how you managed to translate these bad personal experiences into some theological argument pro or con.
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 14:37     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:I have met too many over-religious people who were terribly dishonest and downright mean, but felt so righteous about having faith that they believed themselves to be good when they were anything but. Religion, therefore, is a farce to me, where most of the truly nice and good people I know don't have much religion, or if they do, they are quiet about it an not overly bound to their church/synagogue. The notion of God, as an extension of what I've observed, doesn't make sense in the way that "religious" people view him or her.


So you've met some bad religious people and some good religious people ... and you conclude that all religion is a "farce"? Uh, OK.

And there are atheists on this very thread making cracks about fairy tales and flying spaghetti monsters. Talk about downright mean and self righteous. But you don't have double standards, do you?
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 14:33     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
I have met too many over-religious people who were terribly dishonest and downright mean, but felt so righteous about having faith that they believed themselves to be good when they were anything but. Religion, therefore, is a farce to me, where most of the truly nice and good people I know don't have much religion, or if they do, they are quiet about it an not overly bound to their church/synagogue. The notion of God, as an extension of what I've observed, doesn't make sense in the way that "religious" people view him or her.
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 14:27     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:The truth is that there is no proof in either the existence or lack of existence of a deity.

For most of the non-believers I know, it is the lack of any shred of evidence. Others see evidence everywhere.

Maybe believers are just more optimistic. Who knows why two people look at the exact same "evidence" and have completely different takes on it.


Exactly. You have faith, or you don't. That's why threads like this one are so pointless.
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 14:21     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
I wish there were an atheist church to hold a bake sale for.
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 14:21     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
The truth is that there is no proof in either the existence or lack of existence of a deity.

For most of the non-believers I know, it is the lack of any shred of evidence. Others see evidence everywhere.

Maybe believers are just more optimistic. Who knows why two people look at the exact same "evidence" and have completely different takes on it.
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 14:15     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
For me, it always begins with morality.


Sure, I agree. But morality certainly does not imply religion. Much less believing in specific stories or myths.

Anonymous wrote:
And I'm not alone:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/22/prominent-atheist-blogger-converts-to-catholicism/?iref=allsearch


So this lady changed her mind -- good for her, it's a free country. That doesn't say anything about the validity of religion.


I did not mention the atheist blogger because of her story, but because of her reason for conversion: the question of morality. That is what she could not get past.
Anonymous
Post 07/10/2012 14:05     Subject: Why don't you believe in God?
^^ too, not to