BINGO! Thanks 17:06.

Anonymous wrote: How can we know if the "cohort" really would be different? I mean this genuinely.

Ask about PSAT commended data -- it's kids who have scored in the about top 3% nationwide. Places like GDS, Sidwell, St Albans, and NCS will have 2-3 dozen kids in that category. Don't know about the others.

Anonymous wrote:How can we know if the "cohort" really would be different? I mean this genuinely.

http://fwd4.me/Jes

I understand all of the foregoing arguments about not publishing the stats as well. But my question is, how are we parents supposed to feel confident that a school is academically selective without such information? My DS goes to a school now (Catholic) where there is really quite a range of learning abilities. DS is one of the strongest students, and he wants to go to school with more students like himself. Do we just have to take the other schools' word for it that they are truly more academically selective? We don't want to make a move to an "elite school" (assuming he could be accepted) and then find out the grass really isn't any greener anywhere else, because exceptions are routinely made for legacies, wealth or connections, athletic prowess, or whatever else schools make exceptions for these days. How can we know if the "cohort" really would be different? I mean this genuinely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of applications, I think that GDS competes with Maret (and Sidwell and WIS and, to a more limited extent, Beavior/NCS/StA) for the same kids, but rarely with most of the others you've listed. Some of that is certainly geographical, but it's also school culture/emphases. I wouldn't exactly call the latter non-academic factors because I suspect that GDS's selling point is its academics. But there are a variety of different ways of having strong academics -- so it's usually a question of what teaching style, resources, course offerings, etc. -- and that's the basis on which many (maybe even most) families will choose among the DC schools I've mentioned.

I'm not sure either of us knows enough about the applicant pool and the decision process each applicant employs to accurately judge the relevant markets and the competition factors. At any rate, my underlying point is that some schools (like GDS, Potomac, and Stone Ridge) are in competition for applicants, and have available persuasive data, yet choose not to release data on college matriculation and standardized test scores. I find that impressive because they (apparently) are valuing family privacy and other non-competitive values over aggressive marketing.

I understand the part about not wanting to compete on the matriculation front, but "family privacy" and "agressive marketing?" Good grief, matriculation lists have to be carefully extracted from most school web sites; it's not as though they're on the home page. And as for privacy, schools normally don't reveal any names (although some do); rather, most schools merely relay the number of matriculants at a particular college, usually over a five-year period.

Anonymous wrote: At any rate, my underlying point is that some schools (like GDS, Potomac, and Stone Ridge) are in competition for applicants, and have available persuasive data, yet choose not to release data on college matriculation and standardized test scores. I find that impressive because they (apparently) are valuing family privacy and other non-competitive values over aggressive marketing.

Speculative as to the school's motivation for non-disclosure.

Anonymous wrote:In terms of applications, I think that GDS competes with Maret (and Sidwell and WIS and, to a more limited extent, Beavior/NCS/StA) for the same kids, but rarely with most of the others you've listed. Some of that is certainly geographical, but it's also school culture/emphases. I wouldn't exactly call the latter non-academic factors because I suspect that GDS's selling point is its academics. But there are a variety of different ways of having strong academics -- so it's usually a question of what teaching style, resources, course offerings, etc. -- and that's the basis on which many (maybe even most) families will choose among the DC schools I've mentioned.

I'm not sure either of us knows enough about the applicant pool and the decision process each applicant employs to accurately judge the relevant markets and the competition factors. At any rate, my underlying point is that some schools (like GDS, Potomac, and Stone Ridge) are in competition for applicants, and have available persuasive data, yet choose not to release data on college matriculation and standardized test scores. I find that impressive because they (apparently) are valuing family privacy and other non-competitive values over aggressive marketing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well since you want the information so badly, Ms. Wannabe Conspiracy Theory, why don't you just go ahead and ask the school directly?

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I have long wondered why Sidwell doesn't post a list of colleges and the number of students who have been admitted to, or have matriculated at, each in the past [number] of years. Other top schools do that, with no problem of violating their students' privacy.

My theory as to why Sidwell doesn't publish the data is that their silence builds mystique and lets them stand out from the other schools. People are left to assume that their exmissions record must be stellar, when in fact they do no better than the other two of the "Big 3." This refusal to publish is rationalized as comporting with the Quaker idea that "we draw strength from silence," as stated in the school philosophy.

Please do not read "conspiracy" where it is not alleged.

I have asked for the list, and the answer was no. They said that the list is not made public. The school apparently will not give the list to anyone but current families and alumni.

A friend of mine was a Potomac School alum and the school wouldn't even return her calls asking for the list.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't know about Stone Ridge or Potomac, but GDS is in the same position as Sidwell in terms of applicant pool. They're already attracting an overabundance of well-qualified applicants rather than struggling to compete for good students. And the school's personality is distinctive enough that it won't be SATs/matriculation data that determines whether or not a family chooses GDS over one of the other top schools post-admission.

You might be right. It just seems to me that GDS is part of a large and fiercely-competitive group of several schools (GDS, Potomac, Holton, Landon, Anselm's, Maret, GPrep, GVisi, etc). Perhaps you're right that all those are so close on the academic continuum that they compete mainly on non-academic factors.

In terms of applications, I think that GDS competes with Maret (and Sidwell and WIS and, to a more limited extent, Beavior/NCS/StA) for the same kids, but rarely with most of the others you've listed. Some of that is certainly geographical, but it's also school culture/emphases. I wouldn't exactly call the latter non-academic factors because I suspect that GDS's selling point is its academics. But there are a variety of different ways of having strong academics -- so it's usually a question of what teaching style, resources, course offerings, etc. -- and that's the basis on which many (maybe even most) families will choose among the DC schools I've mentioned.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: There are some other mid-tier schools (not many) that seem to be in fierce competition for students, and they nevertheless withhold data as well. I suppose some of them might just be poor marketers. But I suspect some also have a philosophical objection to releasing data, and I find that very impressive because their philosophical beliefs are trumping their marketing needs.

That assumes they have impressive test scores and exmissions. Odds are, they don't. If they have a great program and have had less-than-selective admissions, then the way to attract better students is not to publicize SAT/college stats that will steer high-achievers away. Focus on facilities, programs (# of APs, distinctive course offerings), awards, faculty credentials, etc.

You're probably right for some schools. However, some of the ones I was thinking about were GDS, Potomac, and Stone Ridge. I believe all three are excellent schools, and I suspect they have very impressive data on college admissions and SAT scores, but none seem to publicize that data. I find that impressive because I believe they compete for students with several other top-notch schools.

The admissions numbers are irrelevant since there are athletic bumps and legacies and donors. Cornell admits over 35% of legacy apps ED. Those are good odds for an Ivy and I assume some not admitted were very obvious declines. Add to that students from underrepresented groups and you get extra garbage in garbage out. Yes a college team member might be a top student, published author, appeared in feature films, worked for world peace, a legacy of a building donor, friend of whomever, etc but any individual might also be a strong man from a typical DC area family who rows crew.

Anonymous wrote:Don't know about Stone Ridge or Potomac, but GDS is in the same position as Sidwell in terms of applicant pool. They're already attracting an overabundance of well-qualified applicants rather than struggling to compete for good students. And the school's personality is distinctive enough that it won't be SATs/matriculation data that determines whether or not a family chooses GDS over one of the other top schools post-admission.

You might be right. It just seems to me that GDS is part of a large and fiercely-competitive group of several schools (GDS, Potomac, Holton, Landon, Anselm's, Maret, GPrep, GVisi, etc). Perhaps you're right that all those are so close on the academic continuum that they compete mainly on non-academic factors.

Don't know about Stone Ridge or Potomac, but GDS is in the same position as Sidwell in terms of applicant pool. They're already attracting an overabundance of well-qualified applicants rather than struggling to compete for good students. And the school's personality is distinctive enough that it won't be SATs/matriculation data that determines whether or not a family chooses GDS over one of the other top schools post-admission.

Anonymous wrote:School do not teach to the SAT. It is an independent test that students prep for independently of the school. How does knowing those scores help you pick a school? Is there any doubt that Sidwell students are bright? I went to what is routinely considered the best high school in America but it still had a range of SAT scores although they were above a min of 1200 (back in the old scoring) and then with some frquency hit the top. What does that have to do with the education at all? IMO, nothing.

You went to the best high school in America, yet you wrote the paragraph above, which makes no sense? Are you arguing that the students at your "best" high school were all bright and therefore Sidwell as a top private school must also have students that are all bright? There are a few unfounded assumptions in your argument.

SAT/PSAT data tells you something about the cohort which is educationally relevant.

School do not teach to the SAT. It is an independent test that students prep for independently of the school. How does knowing those scores help you pick a school? Is there any doubt that Sidwell students are bright? I went to what is routinely considered the best high school in America but it still had a range of SAT scores although they were above a min of 1200 (back in the old scoring) and then with some frquency hit the top. What does that have to do with the education at all? IMO, nothing.