Anonymous
08/12/2021 18:08
Subject: Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people just don’t care about prestige and doesn't function well when focused on social mobility. I was a humanity major knowing I could be driving a taxi at the end. Not everyone’s cut out to be a doctor, a lawyer, or an engineer. This world also needs social misfits, taxi drivers, line cooks, and janitors.
Noble jobs, but I wouldn’t want my kid being part of the 50% of Americans who have trouble finding enough money for a $600 emergency.
PP humanities major here. I sent my kid to an ivy. I don’t have to worry about her being part of the 50%.
No one who goes to 99% of colleges will have to worry about that either.
+1
My kids are smart, capable, and motivated, and their parents are highly educated and from the ~3-4%. The likelihood of them being part of the 50% is extremely low. Indeed, the older one graduated with a humanities degree several years ago and is making six figures.
We are all good here.
Key point being your kids are from a wealthy background. If they were just middle class they’d be screwed. Count your blessings.
Middle class or lower class kids who get humanities degrees are not screwed because of it. You need to let go of that idea. I mean, really.
+1
Our DC (MC) graduated two years ago with a BA in History and has been employed ever since as an intelligence analyst. He can write better than anyone I've ever met - a very highly sought after skill.
This. Excellent writing and critical thinking skills are valuable, period. And broadly transferable. No-one can reach the executive level of any field without them.
Then explain the earnings premium for STEM. Oh wait, you can’t.
PP’s comment actually has nothing to do with the earnings premium for stem.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 18:04
Subject: Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people just don’t care about prestige and doesn't function well when focused on social mobility. I was a humanity major knowing I could be driving a taxi at the end. Not everyone’s cut out to be a doctor, a lawyer, or an engineer. This world also needs social misfits, taxi drivers, line cooks, and janitors.
Noble jobs, but I wouldn’t want my kid being part of the 50% of Americans who have trouble finding enough money for a $600 emergency.
PP humanities major here. I sent my kid to an ivy. I don’t have to worry about her being part of the 50%.
No one who goes to 99% of colleges will have to worry about that either.
+1
My kids are smart, capable, and motivated, and their parents are highly educated and from the ~3-4%. The likelihood of them being part of the 50% is extremely low. Indeed, the older one graduated with a humanities degree several years ago and is making six figures.
We are all good here.
Key point being your kids are from a wealthy background. If they were just middle class they’d be screwed. Count your blessings.
Middle class or lower class kids who get humanities degrees are not screwed because of it. You need to let go of that idea. I mean, really.
+1
Our DC (MC) graduated two years ago with a BA in History and has been employed ever since as an intelligence analyst. He can write better than anyone I've ever met - a very highly sought after skill.
This. Excellent writing and critical thinking skills are valuable, period. And broadly transferable. No-one can reach the executive level of any field without them.
Then explain the earnings premium for STEM. Oh wait, you can’t.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 17:53
Subject: Re:Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
OP, maybe it’s time to watch this ad again: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-E-itgF21Lo
Anonymous
08/12/2021 17:14
Subject: Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people just don’t care about prestige and doesn't function well when focused on social mobility. I was a humanity major knowing I could be driving a taxi at the end. Not everyone’s cut out to be a doctor, a lawyer, or an engineer. This world also needs social misfits, taxi drivers, line cooks, and janitors.
Noble jobs, but I wouldn’t want my kid being part of the 50% of Americans who have trouble finding enough money for a $600 emergency.
PP humanities major here. I sent my kid to an ivy. I don’t have to worry about her being part of the 50%.
No one who goes to 99% of colleges will have to worry about that either.
+1
My kids are smart, capable, and motivated, and their parents are highly educated and from the ~3-4%. The likelihood of them being part of the 50% is extremely low. Indeed, the older one graduated with a humanities degree several years ago and is making six figures.
We are all good here.
Key point being your kids are from a wealthy background. If they were just middle class they’d be screwed. Count your blessings.
Middle class or lower class kids who get humanities degrees are not screwed because of it. You need to let go of that idea. I mean, really.
+1
Our DC (MC) graduated two years ago with a BA in History and has been employed ever since as an intelligence analyst. He can write better than anyone I've ever met - a very highly sought after skill.
This. Excellent writing and critical thinking skills are valuable, period. And broadly transferable. No-one can reach the executive level of any field without them.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 17:10
Subject: Re:Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Easy reason: Because parents don't pick majors, their adult children do.
Reason in my family: The humanities are critical, and enhance your ability to succeed. DH and I both have jobs that are basically translating STEM concepts into policy and persuasive documents. STEM in the absence of humanities (includes history, communication, ethics, cultural studies, etc) is often useless or harmful.
+1
~Philosophy major making a good living
I'm very happy that some people have made a good living with humanities degrees. However, nationwide representative data clearly show that humanities majors on average earn far less money than peers who majored in things like STEM or business.
Business is a terrible undergrad major. Terrible. Research shows that students who major in general business and marketing are more likely to be unemployed or underemployed, meaning they hold jobs that don’t require a college degree. They also earn less than those in more math-focused business majors, such as finance and accounting. In fact, in the latest college degree salary survey from Payscale (see https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/common-jobs-for-majors), business is NOT one of the best-paying college degrees. When PayScale looked at starting and mid-career salaries of college graduates in dozens of college majors, business came in as the 56th best-paying college degree. It fared worse than such "impractical" college degrees as philosophy, history and American studies.
Philosophy, on the other hand:
...when it comes to earnings for people who only have undergraduate degrees, philosophy majors have the fourth-highest median earnings, $81,200 per year, out-ranking business and chemistry majors, according to the ETS. Bar none, philosophy majors have the highest salary growth trajectory from entry to mid-career.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/philosophers-dont-get-much-respect-but-their-earnings-dont-suck/
Here is a Georgetown research report indicating that business majors earn far more than humanities majors, using BLS data. BLS is the most accurate labor data:
https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/valueofcollegemajors
Here is a quote from the report: "STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics), health, and business majors are the highest paying, leading to average annual wages of $37,000 or more at the entry level and an average of $65,000 or more annually over the course of a recipient’s career."
You can play around with the data yourself and figure out exactly how much the earnings differential is throughout the entire distribution and over the lifetime, not just the median earnings at graduation.
But both agree that philosophy majors earn more than business majors.
Your mistake is searching for "business." Very few people actually major in an undergraduate major called "business." They pick accounting, finance, information systems, marketing, etc. You need to compare those actual majors to philosophy. Even within humanities, there is a wide range of salaries between majors. Philosophy is 39k-76k and finance is 49k-109k. Accounting is 47k-103k. So, those are substantially higher than philosophy
No, I (first PP) didn't make any "mistake."
PP above wrote,"I'm very happy that some people have made a good living with humanities degrees. However, nationwide representative data clearly show that humanities majors on average earn far less money than peers who majored in things like STEM or business."
PP didn't write "accounting, finance, information systems, marketing, etc." They wrote "business" (which is an undergrad major at some schools).
That is therefore the major I compared to philosophy.
Well, that's going to make philosophy look super good because almost nobody who goes to a business school majors in "business." You conveniently picked the crappiest business major to compare to
Is it this same PP who keeps quibbling with the 583 article about philosophy v business majors? If so, you keep moving the goalpost. The Philosophy major PP was saying the whole time that business is a terrible major, in response to a PP saying that humanities majors make less than people in STEM or business. Philosophy major PP was simply saying that this isn’t always the case.
And it isn’t a terribly obvious fact. If you had asked me when I was a senior in high school, or maybe much later, if philosophy or business majors make more, I would think that neither made tons but business majors would make more. So while it might be obvious to you that business majors make less on average than philosophy majors, I think it’s a fact worth telling people about.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 16:50
Subject: Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
1)in-state is likely worth the cost by increase in salary
2)higher gpa to get into med/law/grad/teaching school
3)oodles of time to run a sorority/dorm parties
4)meet and marry a pre-med; nobody I know regrets being the ex-wife of a doctor
5)improve writing/speaking skills, which is a great and useful skill
6)athletic scholarship
7)avoiding the real world until he or she finds a spouse
8)strong dept
9)make connections with 1%ers
If your kid is anti-social and wants an expensive school, just pay the in-state cost and have him or her pay the rest.
2)higher gpa to get into med/law/grad/teaching school
3)oodles of time to run a sorority/dorm parties
4)meet and marry a pre-med; nobody I know regrets being the ex-wife of a doctor
5)improve writing/speaking skills, which is a great and useful skill
6)athletic scholarship
7)avoiding the real world until he or she finds a spouse
8)strong dept
9)make connections with 1%ers
If your kid is anti-social and wants an expensive school, just pay the in-state cost and have him or her pay the rest.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 16:47
Subject: Re:Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Easy reason: Because parents don't pick majors, their adult children do.
Reason in my family: The humanities are critical, and enhance your ability to succeed. DH and I both have jobs that are basically translating STEM concepts into policy and persuasive documents. STEM in the absence of humanities (includes history, communication, ethics, cultural studies, etc) is often useless or harmful.
+1
~Philosophy major making a good living
I'm very happy that some people have made a good living with humanities degrees. However, nationwide representative data clearly show that humanities majors on average earn far less money than peers who majored in things like STEM or business.
Business is a terrible undergrad major. Terrible. Research shows that students who major in general business and marketing are more likely to be unemployed or underemployed, meaning they hold jobs that don’t require a college degree. They also earn less than those in more math-focused business majors, such as finance and accounting. In fact, in the latest college degree salary survey from Payscale (see https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/common-jobs-for-majors), business is NOT one of the best-paying college degrees. When PayScale looked at starting and mid-career salaries of college graduates in dozens of college majors, business came in as the 56th best-paying college degree. It fared worse than such "impractical" college degrees as philosophy, history and American studies.
Philosophy, on the other hand:
...when it comes to earnings for people who only have undergraduate degrees, philosophy majors have the fourth-highest median earnings, $81,200 per year, out-ranking business and chemistry majors, according to the ETS. Bar none, philosophy majors have the highest salary growth trajectory from entry to mid-career.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/philosophers-dont-get-much-respect-but-their-earnings-dont-suck/
Here is a Georgetown research report indicating that business majors earn far more than humanities majors, using BLS data. BLS is the most accurate labor data:
https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/valueofcollegemajors
Here is a quote from the report: "STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics), health, and business majors are the highest paying, leading to average annual wages of $37,000 or more at the entry level and an average of $65,000 or more annually over the course of a recipient’s career."
You can play around with the data yourself and figure out exactly how much the earnings differential is throughout the entire distribution and over the lifetime, not just the median earnings at graduation.
But both agree that philosophy majors earn more than business majors.
Your mistake is searching for "business." Very few people actually major in an undergraduate major called "business." They pick accounting, finance, information systems, marketing, etc. You need to compare those actual majors to philosophy. Even within humanities, there is a wide range of salaries between majors. Philosophy is 39k-76k and finance is 49k-109k. Accounting is 47k-103k. So, those are substantially higher than philosophy
No, I (first PP) didn't make any "mistake."
PP above wrote,"I'm very happy that some people have made a good living with humanities degrees. However, nationwide representative data clearly show that humanities majors on average earn far less money than peers who majored in things like STEM or business."
PP didn't write "accounting, finance, information systems, marketing, etc." They wrote "business" (which is an undergrad major at some schools).
That is therefore the major I compared to philosophy.
Well, that's going to make philosophy look super good because almost nobody who goes to a business school majors in "business." You conveniently picked the crappiest business major to compare to
Anonymous
08/12/2021 16:47
Subject: Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
Having a broad education that favors exposure to many ideas and rigor in thinking positions a person for flexibility in our dynamic world today. Their potential only grows. Training for a specialized field from the start sees declining potential over time.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 16:39
Subject: Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people just don’t care about prestige and doesn't function well when focused on social mobility. I was a humanity major knowing I could be driving a taxi at the end. Not everyone’s cut out to be a doctor, a lawyer, or an engineer. This world also needs social misfits, taxi drivers, line cooks, and janitors.
Noble jobs, but I wouldn’t want my kid being part of the 50% of Americans who have trouble finding enough money for a $600 emergency.
PP humanities major here. I sent my kid to an ivy. I don’t have to worry about her being part of the 50%.
No one who goes to 99% of colleges will have to worry about that either.
+1
My kids are smart, capable, and motivated, and their parents are highly educated and from the ~3-4%. The likelihood of them being part of the 50% is extremely low. Indeed, the older one graduated with a humanities degree several years ago and is making six figures.
We are all good here.
Key point being your kids are from a wealthy background. If they were just middle class they’d be screwed. Count your blessings.
Middle class or lower class kids who get humanities degrees are not screwed because of it. You need to let go of that idea. I mean, really.
+1
Our DC (MC) graduated two years ago with a BA in History and has been employed ever since as an intelligence analyst. He can write better than anyone I've ever met - a very highly sought after skill.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 16:39
Subject: Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of posts here recently about major and concern distress. Why would non-wealthy or trust fund families ever let their kid major in something like philosophy or history?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/p2rdwp/firstgenlowincome_students_do_not_major_in_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
The point of college is social mobility. Why would you intentionally hamper that with a humanities degree? No judgement, just wondering.
The point of college is intellectual development. Social mobility may or may not follow. But it’s more important to me than money.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 16:37
Subject: Re:Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
My DD graduated with an accounting degree this May and did an internship last year in it. She realized too late that she has no interest in actually being an accountant but finished the degree anyway. We shall see.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 16:36
Subject: Re:Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Easy reason: Because parents don't pick majors, their adult children do.
Reason in my family: The humanities are critical, and enhance your ability to succeed. DH and I both have jobs that are basically translating STEM concepts into policy and persuasive documents. STEM in the absence of humanities (includes history, communication, ethics, cultural studies, etc) is often useless or harmful.
+1
~Philosophy major making a good living
I'm very happy that some people have made a good living with humanities degrees. However, nationwide representative data clearly show that humanities majors on average earn far less money than peers who majored in things like STEM or business.
Business is a terrible undergrad major. Terrible. Research shows that students who major in general business and marketing are more likely to be unemployed or underemployed, meaning they hold jobs that don’t require a college degree. They also earn less than those in more math-focused business majors, such as finance and accounting. In fact, in the latest college degree salary survey from Payscale (see https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/common-jobs-for-majors), business is NOT one of the best-paying college degrees. When PayScale looked at starting and mid-career salaries of college graduates in dozens of college majors, business came in as the 56th best-paying college degree. It fared worse than such "impractical" college degrees as philosophy, history and American studies.
Philosophy, on the other hand:
...when it comes to earnings for people who only have undergraduate degrees, philosophy majors have the fourth-highest median earnings, $81,200 per year, out-ranking business and chemistry majors, according to the ETS. Bar none, philosophy majors have the highest salary growth trajectory from entry to mid-career.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/philosophers-dont-get-much-respect-but-their-earnings-dont-suck/
Here is a Georgetown research report indicating that business majors earn far more than humanities majors, using BLS data. BLS is the most accurate labor data:
https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/valueofcollegemajors
Here is a quote from the report: "STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics), health, and business majors are the highest paying, leading to average annual wages of $37,000 or more at the entry level and an average of $65,000 or more annually over the course of a recipient’s career."
You can play around with the data yourself and figure out exactly how much the earnings differential is throughout the entire distribution and over the lifetime, not just the median earnings at graduation.
But both agree that philosophy majors earn more than business majors.
Your mistake is searching for "business." Very few people actually major in an undergraduate major called "business." They pick accounting, finance, information systems, marketing, etc. You need to compare those actual majors to philosophy. Even within humanities, there is a wide range of salaries between majors. Philosophy is 39k-76k and finance is 49k-109k. Accounting is 47k-103k. So, those are substantially higher than philosophy
No, I (first PP) didn't make any "mistake."
PP above wrote,
"I'm very happy that some people have made a good living with humanities degrees. However, nationwide representative data clearly show that humanities majors on average earn far less money than peers who majored in things like STEM or business."
PP didn't write "accounting, finance, information systems, marketing, etc." They wrote "business" (which is an undergrad major at some schools).
That is therefore the major I compared to philosophy.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 16:32
Subject: Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Some people just don’t care about prestige and doesn't function well when focused on social mobility. I was a humanity major knowing I could be driving a taxi at the end. Not everyone’s cut out to be a doctor, a lawyer, or an engineer. This world also needs social misfits, taxi drivers, line cooks, and janitors.
Noble jobs, but I wouldn’t want my kid being part of the 50% of Americans who have trouble finding enough money for a $600 emergency.
PP humanities major here. I sent my kid to an ivy. I don’t have to worry about her being part of the 50%.
No one who goes to 99% of colleges will have to worry about that either.
+1
My kids are smart, capable, and motivated, and their parents are highly educated and from the ~3-4%. The likelihood of them being part of the 50% is extremely low. Indeed, the older one graduated with a humanities degree several years ago and is making six figures.
We are all good here.
Key point being your kids are from a wealthy background. If they were just middle class they’d be screwed. Count your blessings.
Middle class or lower class kids who get humanities degrees are not screwed because of it. You need to let go of that idea. I mean, really.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 16:30
Subject: Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
College isn’t trade school. It’s not “what you do with it;” it is what it does with you.
Anonymous
08/12/2021 16:28
Subject: Re:Why would non-one percent families let their kids major in the humanities?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Easy reason: Because parents don't pick majors, their adult children do.
Reason in my family: The humanities are critical, and enhance your ability to succeed. DH and I both have jobs that are basically translating STEM concepts into policy and persuasive documents. STEM in the absence of humanities (includes history, communication, ethics, cultural studies, etc) is often useless or harmful.
+1
~Philosophy major making a good living
I'm very happy that some people have made a good living with humanities degrees. However, nationwide representative data clearly show that humanities majors on average earn far less money than peers who majored in things like STEM or business.
Business is a terrible undergrad major. Terrible. Research shows that students who major in general business and marketing are more likely to be unemployed or underemployed, meaning they hold jobs that don’t require a college degree. They also earn less than those in more math-focused business majors, such as finance and accounting. In fact, in the latest college degree salary survey from Payscale (see https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/common-jobs-for-majors), business is NOT one of the best-paying college degrees. When PayScale looked at starting and mid-career salaries of college graduates in dozens of college majors, business came in as the 56th best-paying college degree. It fared worse than such "impractical" college degrees as philosophy, history and American studies.
Philosophy, on the other hand:
...when it comes to earnings for people who only have undergraduate degrees, philosophy majors have the fourth-highest median earnings, $81,200 per year, out-ranking business and chemistry majors, according to the ETS. Bar none, philosophy majors have the highest salary growth trajectory from entry to mid-career.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/philosophers-dont-get-much-respect-but-their-earnings-dont-suck/
Here is a Georgetown research report indicating that business majors earn far more than humanities majors, using BLS data. BLS is the most accurate labor data:
https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/valueofcollegemajors
Here is a quote from the report: "STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics), health, and business majors are the highest paying, leading to average annual wages of $37,000 or more at the entry level and an average of $65,000 or more annually over the course of a recipient’s career."
You can play around with the data yourself and figure out exactly how much the earnings differential is throughout the entire distribution and over the lifetime, not just the median earnings at graduation.
But both agree that philosophy majors earn more than business majors.
Your mistake is searching for "business." Very few people actually major in an undergraduate major called "business." They pick accounting, finance, information systems, marketing, etc. You need to compare those actual majors to philosophy. Even within humanities, there is a wide range of salaries between majors. Philosophy is 39k-76k and finance is 49k-109k. Accounting is 47k-103k. So, those are substantially higher than philosophy
Lol no I don’t need to compare those majors to philosophy because I was talking about people who major in “business,” not accounting or finance. Pretty sure that’s what 538 was doing too. But I guess if that data is lumping in accountants with actual business majors and the average of that is the number I was looking at, philosophy majors do even better for themselves.