Anonymous wrote:10:18 Right if it was disclosed on the FA application it proves the system is wacked. If you think FA should subsidize luxury liviing, that's your beeswax. Have you read what folks at schools say about families like this? I don't know who lies -- if anyone. All I know is what I see. If you condone lying on FA applications, and argue that it's worth the risk because some aid goes to those who truly need it, that's your beeswax, too.

You are living in your own inexistent utopia if you believe that all social welfare programs should not exist for the deserving needy if there exist some undeserving recipients. There are externalities to any social welfare program. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not judging based on outward appearances; I'm judging based on what people say -- the assumptions they make about the world, about right and wrong, etc. What has astounded me about this thread is the defenses/defensiveness of so many posters. The sense of entitlement is stunning, as is the cluelessness about the much less forgiving economic constraints that govern other peoples' lives.

Well, what's stunning to me from your post is the arrogance in your mistaken sense of omniscience.

People often say more than they realize -- and aren't happy when the underlying logic or implications of what they are saying is pointed out. You don't have to be omniscient (just attentive -- and sometimes not even that!) to recognize the values and assumptions behind many of these posts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your perspective is "everybody cheats," so no one is in any position to object. Yes, I call that perspective self-serving and corrupt. And, no, you aren't right -- some people don't cheat.

I'm not judging based on outward appearances; I'm judging based on what people say -- the assumptions they make about the world, about right and wrong, etc. What has astounded me about this thread is the defenses/defensiveness of so many posters. The sense of entitlement is stunning, as is the cluelessness about the much less forgiving economic constraints that govern other peoples' lives.

No, I did not say and do not think that everyone cheats. Read my post, please. I said that it may appear to others that someone cheats even if that person does not cheat, for judgments based on outward appearances can be wrong. I feel that I do not cheat, and I hate to think that there are those receiving FA who cheat the system, but I know such cheaters exist. I am just saying that the posters who are judging others to be FA cheaters based on outward appearances may be dead wrong. You can't judge just by the $1 million house.

I reread your post. At worst, I've attributed to you sentiments that you presumably did not author but which you did quote and explicitly endorse. Your post (9:10b) said nothing about judging based on appearances -- it argued that "everyone" should look in the mirror because those condemning cheating probably cheat themselves.

Wrong. I said to look in the mirror and realize that others may judge you, from mere appearances, to be cheating even if you are not cheating. It is this understanding of the human condition that would give you compassion.

How about this, fellows? How about a 5 million dollar house? Or a 10 million dollar house?

At what point does reason kick in and you say, "Wait, even heavily mortgaged, even with medical bills, even not knowing the full situation...this does not add up!"

Perhaps a $1million Georgetown townhouse is not the threshold for some of you. Perhaps that is still within the bounds of middle-classdom.

For me, it's a little hard to fathom. But then, I'm out here in the burbs driving a Pontiac. It's my choice to send my children to this pricey school. I don't expect other struggling parents to front part of the bill for me so I can maintain a certain lifestyle.

10:18 Right if it was disclosed on the FA application it proves the system is wacked. If you think FA should subsidize luxury liviing, that's your beeswax. Have you read what folks at schools say about families like this? I don't know who lies -- if anyone. All I know is what I see. If you condone lying on FA applications, and argue that it's worth the risk because some aid goes to those who truly need it, that's your beeswax, too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your perspective is "everybody cheats," so no one is in any position to object. Yes, I call that perspective self-serving and corrupt. And, no, you aren't right -- some people don't cheat.

I'm not judging based on outward appearances; I'm judging based on what people say -- the assumptions they make about the world, about right and wrong, etc. What has astounded me about this thread is the defenses/defensiveness of so many posters. The sense of entitlement is stunning, as is the cluelessness about the much less forgiving economic constraints that govern other peoples' lives.

No, I did not say and do not think that everyone cheats. Read my post, please. I said that it may appear to others that someone cheats even if that person does not cheat, for judgments based on outward appearances can be wrong. I feel that I do not cheat, and I hate to think that there are those receiving FA who cheat the system, but I know such cheaters exist. I am just saying that the posters who are judging others to be FA cheaters based on outward appearances may be dead wrong. You can't judge just by the $1 million house.

I reread your post. At worst, I've attributed to you sentiments that you presumably did not author but which you did quote and explicitly endorse. Your post (9:10b) said nothing about judging based on appearances -- it argued that "everyone" should look in the mirror because those condemning cheating probably cheat themselves.

Anonymous wrote:9:46 But if the Mercedes is a rental, it costs double what another rental costs. If it was a gift, sell it and buy a less expensive car. Really. Why should you and I subsidize conspicuous consumption and living the good live because of FA?

Guess what? The car rental was, presumably, if the FA applicant was honest, disclosed on the FA application. The application asks for make, model, year, rental payments, etc. If you're gojng to argue that the rental could have started after the application, I will respond that the new rental would have to be disclosed on the following year's FA application. If you're going to argue that some FA recipients lie, then I would respond that we as a society have determined that aid to the needy is an aim worthy of the risk we take that some will cheat to win the aid undeservedly.

Anonymous wrote:
I'm not judging based on outward appearances; I'm judging based on what people say -- the assumptions they make about the world, about right and wrong, etc. What has astounded me about this thread is the defenses/defensiveness of so many posters. The sense of entitlement is stunning, as is the cluelessness about the much less forgiving economic constraints that govern other peoples' lives.

Well, what's stunning to me from your post is the arrogance in your mistaken sense of omniscience.

9:46 But if the Mercedes is a rental, it costs double what another rental costs. If it was a gift, sell it and buy a less expensive car. Really. Why should you and I subsidize conspicuous consumption and living the good live because of FA?

Anonymous wrote:Your perspective is "everybody cheats," so no one is in any position to object. Yes, I call that perspective self-serving and corrupt. And, no, you aren't right -- some people don't cheat.

I'm not judging based on outward appearances; I'm judging based on what people say -- the assumptions they make about the world, about right and wrong, etc. What has astounded me about this thread is the defenses/defensiveness of so many posters. The sense of entitlement is stunning, as is the cluelessness about the much less forgiving economic constraints that govern other peoples' lives.

No, I did not say and do not think that everyone cheats. Read my post, please. I said that it may appear to others that someone cheats even if that person does not cheat, for judgments based on outward appearances can be wrong. I feel that I do not cheat, and I hate to think that there are those receiving FA who cheat the system, but I know such cheaters exist. I am just saying that the posters who are judging others to be FA cheaters based on outward appearances may be dead wrong. You can't judge just by the $1 million house.

Your perspective is "everybody cheats," so no one is in any position to object. Yes, I call that perspective self-serving and corrupt. And, no, you aren't right -- some people don't cheat.

I'm not judging based on outward appearances; I'm judging based on what people say -- the assumptions they make about the world, about right and wrong, etc. What has astounded me about this thread is the defenses/defensiveness of so many posters. The sense of entitlement is stunning, as is the cluelessness about the much less forgiving economic constraints that govern other peoples' lives.

Anonymous wrote:Gotta love the "you're all just as self-serving and corrupt as I am" approach. Hard as it may be for you to believe, there are actually hard-working, honest people who contribute more and demand less than you and the people you apparently identify with do.

9:10 here. I never called myself or anyone on this thread "self-serving" or "corrupt." Those are your words, your judgments. And those are exactly the unfounded judgments I am opposing. I am saying that everyone needs to consider that from others' perspectives, she herself may appear to be taking unfair advantage when she perhaps is not. It's terribly facile to judge others based on outward appearances. I'm not an FA recipient, and I admit to sometimes wondering why someone drives a Mercedes in the pick-up lane when they are FA recipients and a full-paying parent like me is driving a beaten-up 2003 Prius, but then I stop and remind myslef that I do not know all the other's financial circumstances. That Mercedes could be a rental, could have been bought used, could have been a gift from a relative or friend, etc. Let's not judge others just on outward appearances.

Anonymous wrote:The most dangerous thing about this kind of speculation and gossip about FA recipients is the effect that parents' attitudes can have on their children. Are parents aware that their prejudiced views and attitudes can ride on the backs of their children into the school and poison the community there? There are parents at my son's private school who openly and contemptuously refer to an FA recipient as a "scholarship kid" and imply that such a student is less entitled than a full-paying student. When their children hear such remarks, of course it changes how they think about their classmates that receive FA.

Come on, parents, model the caring for and tolerance of others that you would have your own children exhibit.

OMG. Get real. There are kids on financial aid who BRAG about and then go on private and school sponsored travel junkets/vacations. And what IS a jun ket? School trips to foreign countries. Many others don't go because they have to pay full tuition, books, fees. Vacations for the full family [in hotels/resorts] 2 weeks in the Bahamas or similar locations. It is tiresome.

9:22 here. Another aspect of this is estate preservation. I know folks whose parents (the grandparents) are loaded, so loaded they could live 20 years in a swank assisted living facility and not make a dent in their net worth, and they apply for FA. I think that's questionable. But that's me.

OP here. As difficult as it may be for some of you to believe, I actually DO know the financial situation of the family which inspired this post.

Income about $270K.
Equity in house approximately $700K at time of purchase. Even draining the equity to pay for school leaves quite a bit.
Two kids in school.

This family is very vocal about receiving financial aid, constantly pointing it out, as if they are contributing to the diversity of the school. Well, I make less (a lot), I have less equity in my house (a lot), and I have the same number of kids in the same school. And somehow I am doing it. I don't send my kids to $4000 a summer camps, I don't take trips to the Caribbean, I don't have a fancy SUV and I don't live in a prime zip code in a 5 bedroom house.

I did not start this post to question exactly how needy financial aid families are. I don't expect these kids to live in a hovel. However, I do look at this particular family and think, something is seriously wrong here. This family is riding a system and patting themselves on the back that they are one of the 'poor' families. They are not. They are just one of the families abusing a system designed to benefit children of need.