Chicago churns out dorky policy wonks who make s*** for pay on the Hill and a fair number of doctors and lawyers. Northwestern is basically a private state school and churns out a fair number of journalists, a dying profession. Most grads of these schools go onto normal boring 9-5 careers, especially those without connections. If you’re not from the Midwest and have no plans to settle in Chicago, there’s no point in considering these two schools for undergrad. Cold weather, flyover country, both campuses are far from downtown Chicago hustle and bustle, and nobody in real life cares about them. We all know why coastal kids end up at these two schools — it was their only option in the top 15.

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Anonymous wrote:Dp- Don’t know about UChicago but alums do very well for themselves anecdotally. And Northwestern is flush with recent big name alums, especially in media and the arts. Not sure what your point is, to the unhappy and jealous PP above…

Have you checked Chicago ROI? It’s pretty low, around $60,000. It’s about a few thousands more than UVA - but at a hefty price tag. No thanks.

Measuring ROI solely by salary is stupid.

Oh, is that what’s going on here? So PP is saying 60K is the average starting salary of a (recent?) UofC grad? Couldn’t figure out what it meant to express ROI as anything other than a percentage. Cracks me up how people who are obsessed with ROI don’t even know how to calculate it. And, of course, even if you believe ROI is the/an appropriate metric for choosing a college, then averages don’t matter — you care about what you’re actually investing and what kind of career DC is likely to embark upon. That’s before we even get to the point about salary not being the only return.

A lot of what people think about Chicago is an illusion. Their ROI is consistently not what an $80,000+ a year university is expected to produce. There's a disconnect between their perception of themselves and their performance. It's like a beautiful woman who achieved her looks through plastic surgery still making an ugly baby.

Pretty much. But there are enough rich families who can’t get their kid into an Ivy who don’t sweat paying, so can’t blame them for charging $80k.

Anonymous wrote:Left leaning but not annoyingly and self-destructively woke

This is false and marketing BS. It’s just as annoying woke and full of cancel culture as any other college.

Given the number of Nobel laureates and research dollars at U Chicago, I think they are doing just fine despite the PP’s perception of RO1

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Anonymous wrote:Dp- Don’t know about UChicago but alums do very well for themselves anecdotally. And Northwestern is flush with recent big name alums, especially in media and the arts. Not sure what your point is, to the unhappy and jealous PP above…

Have you checked Chicago ROI? It’s pretty low, around $60,000. It’s about a few thousands more than UVA - but at a hefty price tag. No thanks.

Measuring ROI solely by salary is stupid.

Oh, is that what’s going on here? So PP is saying 60K is the average starting salary of a (recent?) UofC grad? Couldn’t figure out what it meant to express ROI as anything other than a percentage. Cracks me up how people who are obsessed with ROI don’t even know how to calculate it. And, of course, even if you believe ROI is the/an appropriate metric for choosing a college, then averages don’t matter — you care about what you’re actually investing and what kind of career DC is likely to embark upon. That’s before we even get to the point about salary not being the only return.

A lot of what people think about Chicago is an illusion. Their ROI is consistently not what an $80,000+ a year university is expected to produce. There's a disconnect between their perception of themselves and their performance. It's like a beautiful woman who achieved her looks through plastic surgery still making an ugly baby.

Great universities don’t achieve (or sustain) their greatness through ROI. Their goal isn’t to improve the earning power of undergrads. I understand that/why some parents care about ROI, especially now that college costs are mind-bogglingly expensive, but while that may be a legit way to think about how to allocate family assets among competing needs/desires, it’s just not what university education should be about.

The only problem with your argument is you can get UChicago-level covid/remote education through Youtube videos - for free.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dp- Don’t know about UChicago but alums do very well for themselves anecdotally. And Northwestern is flush with recent big name alums, especially in media and the arts. Not sure what your point is, to the unhappy and jealous PP above…

Have you checked Chicago ROI? It’s pretty low, around $60,000. It’s about a few thousands more than UVA - but at a hefty price tag. No thanks.

Measuring ROI solely by salary is stupid.

Oh, is that what’s going on here? So PP is saying 60K is the average starting salary of a (recent?) UofC grad? Couldn’t figure out what it meant to express ROI as anything other than a percentage. Cracks me up how people who are obsessed with ROI don’t even know how to calculate it. And, of course, even if you believe ROI is the/an appropriate metric for choosing a college, then averages don’t matter — you care about what you’re actually investing and what kind of career DC is likely to embark upon. That’s before we even get to the point about salary not being the only return.

A lot of what people think about Chicago is an illusion. Their ROI is consistently not what an $80,000+ a year university is expected to produce. There's a disconnect between their perception of themselves and their performance. It's like a beautiful woman who achieved her looks through plastic surgery still making an ugly baby.

Great universities don’t achieve (or sustain) their greatness through ROI. Their goal isn’t to improve the earning power of undergrads. I understand that/why some parents care about ROI, especially now that college costs are mind-bogglingly expensive, but while that may be a legit way to think about how to allocate family assets among competing needs/desires, it’s just not what university education should be about.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dp- Don’t know about UChicago but alums do very well for themselves anecdotally. And Northwestern is flush with recent big name alums, especially in media and the arts. Not sure what your point is, to the unhappy and jealous PP above…

Have you checked Chicago ROI? It’s pretty low, around $60,000. It’s about a few thousands more than UVA - but at a hefty price tag. No thanks.

Measuring ROI solely by salary is stupid.

Oh, is that what’s going on here? So PP is saying 60K is the average starting salary of a (recent?) UofC grad? Couldn’t figure out what it meant to express ROI as anything other than a percentage. Cracks me up how people who are obsessed with ROI don’t even know how to calculate it. And, of course, even if you believe ROI is the/an appropriate metric for choosing a college, then averages don’t matter — you care about what you’re actually investing and what kind of career DC is likely to embark upon. That’s before we even get to the point about salary not being the only return.

A lot of what people think about Chicago is an illusion. Their ROI is consistently not what an $80,000+ a year university is expected to produce. There's a disconnect between their perception of themselves and their performance. It's like a beautiful woman who achieved her looks through plastic surgery still making an ugly baby.

Anonymous wrote:I think over past 10 years or so, students have been more open to attend top colleges outside the northeast (e.g., stanford, chicago, northwestern, duke, etc.)

+1 although this is a trend that has been happening for much longer than 10 years. Closer to 20, 30 years at this point.

I think over past 10 years or so, students have been more open to attend top colleges outside the northeast (e.g., stanford, chicago, northwestern, duke, etc.)

Anonymous wrote:A 1500 25 years ago is very different than a 1500 today. The test has evolved.

That was an astronomical score then. The changes in scoring have resulted in a differential of something like 130 points between equivalent scores of those periods.

Northwestern and U of Chicago have always, always been top-flight schools. Nothing to be surprised about, and the people trying to pretend that they’re anything but top-flight schools are overcorrecting and overcompensating for their own insecurities. OP, if your DC is interested in either of these schools and the financials work out in your favor, go.

This!

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Anonymous wrote:Dp- Don’t know about UChicago but alums do very well for themselves anecdotally. And Northwestern is flush with recent big name alums, especially in media and the arts. Not sure what your point is, to the unhappy and jealous PP above…

Have you checked Chicago ROI? It’s pretty low, around $60,000. It’s about a few thousands more than UVA - but at a hefty price tag. No thanks.

Measuring ROI solely by salary is stupid.

Oh, is that what’s going on here? So PP is saying 60K is the average starting salary of a (recent?) UofC grad? Couldn’t figure out what it meant to express ROI as anything other than a percentage. Cracks me up how people who are obsessed with ROI don’t even know how to calculate it. And, of course, even if you believe ROI is the/an appropriate metric for choosing a college, then averages don’t matter — you care about what you’re actually investing and what kind of career DC is likely to embark upon. That’s before we even get to the point about salary not being the only return.

You are rambling without telling us what exactly are you are getting for some $80,000+ a year, if not ROI?

Left leaning but not annoyingly and self-destructively woke

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dp- Don’t know about UChicago but alums do very well for themselves anecdotally. And Northwestern is flush with recent big name alums, especially in media and the arts. Not sure what your point is, to the unhappy and jealous PP above…

Have you checked Chicago ROI? It’s pretty low, around $60,000. It’s about a few thousands more than UVA - but at a hefty price tag. No thanks.

Measuring ROI solely by salary is stupid.

Oh, is that what’s going on here? So PP is saying 60K is the average starting salary of a (recent?) UofC grad? Couldn’t figure out what it meant to express ROI as anything other than a percentage. Cracks me up how people who are obsessed with ROI don’t even know how to calculate it. And, of course, even if you believe ROI is the/an appropriate metric for choosing a college, then averages don’t matter — you care about what you’re actually investing and what kind of career DC is likely to embark upon. That’s before we even get to the point about salary not being the only return.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dp- Don’t know about UChicago but alums do very well for themselves anecdotally. And Northwestern is flush with recent big name alums, especially in media and the arts. Not sure what your point is, to the unhappy and jealous PP above…

Have you checked Chicago ROI? It’s pretty low, around $60,000. It’s about a few thousands more than UVA - but at a hefty price tag. No thanks.

Measuring ROI solely by salary is stupid.