Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
TJ teachers say the same things, mostly about their students who are entering in Pre-Calc or above in the 9th grade. There are exceptions, of course, but it doesn't take them long to separate the "gifted" from the "advanced" - the latter of which is not really a compliment.

Sure, but why is that necessarily the school's problem to solve? I'd rather leave the system as is, so the gifted kids can get much needed advancement, even if one side effect is that kids who chose to push ahead end up struggling. For TJ kids, I bet the majority of kids who enter in pre-Calc and then struggle are the ones who did summer geometry to get ahead. For the most part, these are kids who were not smart or advanced enough to be skipped ahead to 6th grade Algebra, and then massively shortchanged their understanding of geometry.

It's the school's problem to solve in part because the solution is to take those kids and move them back to a level that's more appropriate, but they get strong parental resistance - and sometimes resistance from the kid who hasn't yet learned how to fail publicly and has a large part of their identity wrapped up in their math advancement. It can be a huge shot to the ego, but the alternative is advanced classes where you have students who are both younger from an age and maturity perspective and also have massive gaps in their comprehension.

Anonymous wrote:

I have seen Teachers say that many of the kids who are taking Algebra in 7th grade have not seemed to grasp the fundamentals properly and struggle in more advanced math classes. The Teachers seem to think that is because parents were so invested in their kid being in Algebra in 7th grade that they used math programs to provide their kids with enough knowledge that they could get to Algebra in 7th. The concern is that parents are moving their kids too quickly and that it hurts their ability to learn the material properly.

I agree that the kids taking Kumon or doing IAAT prep workbooks may not be sufficiently prepared for Algebra. I highly doubt that any kids who've successfully completed AoPS pre-Algebra or the RSM equivalent would lack a sufficient understanding of the fundamentals. Both teach at a substantially higher level than FCPS. It's also likely that very bright kids who pass the IAAT and SOL benchmarks but took no outside math classes might struggle, since AAP 6th grade math is far from being a rigorous pre-Algebra program.

Anonymous wrote:
TJ teachers say the same things, mostly about their students who are entering in Pre-Calc or above in the 9th grade. There are exceptions, of course, but it doesn't take them long to separate the "gifted" from the "advanced" - the latter of which is not really a compliment.

Sure, but why is that necessarily the school's problem to solve? I'd rather leave the system as is, so the gifted kids can get much needed advancement, even if one side effect is that kids who chose to push ahead end up struggling. For TJ kids, I bet the majority of kids who enter in pre-Calc and then struggle are the ones who did summer geometry to get ahead. For the most part, these are kids who were not smart or advanced enough to be skipped ahead to 6th grade Algebra, and then massively shortchanged their understanding of geometry.

Anonymous wrote:I have never seen someone say that kids who take AoPS or RSM or similar programs should not take advanced math classes. I have seen people who are worried about the balance for kids who are taking AoPS plus other math classes plus other academic tutoring. I believe the main objection that I have seen is that parents whose kids are taking AoPS and RSM then complain that their kid is bored in math class, which shouldn't be surprising because parents are paying for their kids to be ahead of their class. I say this as a parent of a kid who is taking an AoPS class. We remind him that the work in school is a great refresher on concepts that he might already know and to take advantage of the practice.

Most posters appear to oppose to the idea of test specific prep classes for the NNAT, CoGAT, and the TJ test. The NNAT and CoGAT prep classes are normally opposed because we are talking about test classes for 5 and 6 year olds. The opposition to the TJ prep classes are that there many people are not able to afford them and the prep classes give a leg up to kids whose families are willing to pay thousands of dollars to prepare for that specific test.

I do find it interesting that many of the places offering TJ Prep also offer Algebra, Geometry and other classes and that people enroll their kids in those classes before their kids take those classes in school. It seems like parents want to ensure an A in the classes so their kids are taking them twice, once privately and then in public school. I imagine that people are opposed to that only because it does affect the rate that the class moves for kids who are taking the class for the first time. Again, our son has been taking AoPS but I doubt that we would enroll him in Algebra through AoPS or another program.

I have seen Teachers say that many of the kids who are taking Algebra in 7th grade have not seemed to grasp the fundamentals properly and struggle in more advanced math classes. The Teachers seem to think that is because parents were so invested in their kid being in Algebra in 7th grade that they used math programs to provide their kids with enough knowledge that they could get to Algebra in 7th. The concern is that parents are moving their kids too quickly and that it hurts their ability to learn the material properly.

TJ teachers say the same things, mostly about their students who are entering in Pre-Calc or above in the 9th grade. There are exceptions, of course, but it doesn't take them long to separate the "gifted" from the "advanced" - the latter of which is not really a compliment.

I have never seen someone say that kids who take AoPS or RSM or similar programs should not take advanced math classes. I have seen people who are worried about the balance for kids who are taking AoPS plus other math classes plus other academic tutoring. I believe the main objection that I have seen is that parents whose kids are taking AoPS and RSM then complain that their kid is bored in math class, which shouldn't be surprising because parents are paying for their kids to be ahead of their class. I say this as a parent of a kid who is taking an AoPS class. We remind him that the work in school is a great refresher on concepts that he might already know and to take advantage of the practice.

Most posters appear to oppose to the idea of test specific prep classes for the NNAT, CoGAT, and the TJ test. The NNAT and CoGAT prep classes are normally opposed because we are talking about test classes for 5 and 6 year olds. The opposition to the TJ prep classes are that there many people are not able to afford them and the prep classes give a leg up to kids whose families are willing to pay thousands of dollars to prepare for that specific test.

I do find it interesting that many of the places offering TJ Prep also offer Algebra, Geometry and other classes and that people enroll their kids in those classes before their kids take those classes in school. It seems like parents want to ensure an A in the classes so their kids are taking them twice, once privately and then in public school. I imagine that people are opposed to that only because it does affect the rate that the class moves for kids who are taking the class for the first time. Again, our son has been taking AoPS but I doubt that we would enroll him in Algebra through AoPS or another program.

I have seen Teachers say that many of the kids who are taking Algebra in 7th grade have not seemed to grasp the fundamentals properly and struggle in more advanced math classes. The Teachers seem to think that is because parents were so invested in their kid being in Algebra in 7th grade that they used math programs to provide their kids with enough knowledge that they could get to Algebra in 7th. The concern is that parents are moving their kids too quickly and that it hurts their ability to learn the material properly.

Anonymous wrote:
Suprised we haven't heard that taking Algebra in 7th grade is "prepping" and therefore unfair.

In other DCUM threads, people have insisted that kids who take classes at AoPS or RSM don't deserve access to advanced math classes. The argument is that the kid is only ahead because their parents put them in extra classes and not because the kid was naturally ahead, so the kid shouldn't get advanced classes as it isn't fair to those who didn't take extra schooling and it would just encourage the tiger moms.

It's all absurd. It's like saying that a kid is eminently qualified for Algebra, but should instead waste a year reviewing math that the kid has already mastered because the kid didn't qualify the right way.

Anonymous wrote:lol...yeah, banning meritocracy at TJ is done by whites to increase white enrollment.

I guess all this systemic racism, SJW woke stuff is just a fiction. The delusion of some people is quite astounding.

Most of the SJWs are white. They're either engaging in white saviorism, or they have kids who can't compete with the Asian kids, so they're trying to change the rules of the game to benefit their own kids. Both are distasteful and shouldn't be encouraged.

Anonymous wrote:lol...yeah, banning meritocracy at TJ is done by whites to increase white enrollment.

I guess all this systemic racism, SJW woke stuff is just a fiction. The delusion of some people is quite astounding.

If it ain't woke, it's broke!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
All those visas and family immigration boosted the raw numbers as well.

Is H one B a banned word on this site?

No, why should it be?

lol...yeah, banning meritocracy at TJ is done by whites to increase white enrollment.

I guess all this systemic racism, SJW woke stuff is just a fiction. The delusion of some people is quite astounding.

Anonymous wrote:
All those visas and family immigration boosted the raw numbers as well.

Is H one B a banned word on this site?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are the motives of people who advocated for these changes?

Here's my cynical take. I'm also white, FWTW.

White, affluent people in their 40s and 50s remember the days when they could get into great colleges, get into the magnet schools, and receive lots of accolades without putting in that much effort. Asians show up and start dominating everything because they're doing weekend schooling and generally working harder. White people feel like their kids deserve to get into schools like TJ and win academic awards based on their kids' raw aptitude, even if there are a lot of Asian kids who are technically at a higher achievement level. They don't want their kids to do extra schooling or need to work harder, but they know they can't otherwise keep up with the Asian kids. So, the solution is to eliminate any advantages that would be gained from working harder.

The goal is not and never has been to increase URM participation. It's to increase the number of white kids at TJ. It's also to make bright, white kids who do minimal supplementation look every bit as competitive as the Asian kids who are doing a lot of academic enrichment. URMs are just being used as a tool.

All those visas and family immigration boosted the raw numbers as well.

Anonymous wrote:^ Forgot to add. One of the motivations is also that the people who have kids who would normally take Algebra in 8th grade would love to eliminate the opportunity for other kids to take it in 7th. Their kids look much more competitive when everyone is taking it in 8th grade than they do if 10% of the kids are on a higher track than theirs.

Suprised we haven't heard that taking Algebra in 7th grade is "prepping" and therefore unfair.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are the motives of people who advocated for these changes?

Here's my cynical take. I'm also white, FWTW.

White, affluent people in their 40s and 50s remember the days when they could get into great colleges, get into the magnet schools, and receive lots of accolades without putting in that much effort. Asians show up and start dominating everything because they're doing weekend schooling and generally working harder. White people feel like their kids deserve to get into schools like TJ and win academic awards based on their kids' raw aptitude, even if there are a lot of Asian kids who are technically at a higher achievement level. They don't want their kids to do extra schooling or need to work harder, but they know they can't otherwise keep up with the Asian kids. So, the solution is to eliminate any advantages that would be gained from working harder.

The goal is not and never has been to increase URM participation. It's to increase the number of white kids at TJ. It's also to make bright, white kids who do minimal supplementation look every bit as competitive as the Asian kids who are doing a lot of academic enrichment. URMs are just being used as a tool.

I think this process started long ago with the "holistic" admission at colleges. That's code for "enough of the Asians, let's figure out how to get more Whites in". Take a step back and think. How does an essay or two about the kid's life in ANY WAY reflect merit or ability to finish college and contribute to society? How do you even know it was the kid that wrote that essay? I don't think the AOs are smart enough to figure that out as is often claimed. If they have the ability accurately determine if an essay was written by the student, they would be minting money working for the CIA or FBI, not reading essays in the middle of nowhere.

I don't think it's possible to get this data but if you were to get the admission files of all the college predators and douche-bags, you will find excellent essays, community service and leadership ECs, all orchestrated by privileged parents.

^ Forgot to add. One of the motivations is also that the people who have kids who would normally take Algebra in 8th grade would love to eliminate the opportunity for other kids to take it in 7th. Their kids look much more competitive when everyone is taking it in 8th grade than they do if 10% of the kids are on a higher track than theirs.