Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apart from the collusion issue (which I think is a real obstacle), a key difference that makes it quite hard to import the UK system to the US is the US colleges' and universities' unwillingness to post entry requirements or guidelines. When you apply to a school in the UK, the university tells you the general minimum qualifications required for an offer. This has a natural winnowing effect that makes selecting only five unis to apply to more of a sure thing for applicants at every level. Secondly, there is a LOT more gatekeeping by secondary school counselors. This cuts down significantly on the YOLO applications but I think most American parents would find it intolerable.

Re: the gatekeeping. From what I understand, this is already happening in very prestigious private school, and the parents are somehow OK with that.

What does that gatekeeping look like? It's news to me. My kid went to a local private but I don't know if your concept of prestige extends to Big 3-type schools.

My son went to a public school. A girl in his graduating class got into seven Ivies. She got into one (presumably her first choice) via EA, so after that she sent in at least 6 more applications. Private school parents told me that this would never happen in their schools, the counselors would not allow more than a couple additional applications, and only if she gave them a very good reason.

How do you know she didn't give them a reason? And why should she not be allowed to apply to more if the schools allow it? She didn't apply ED so that is her right. And you use the word "presumably" in your post, which is never a good way to make a point.

Are you insinuating her actions were somehow unfair and cost your son a spot? I am "presuming" that. Since we are allowed to, apparently.

No, she definitely did not take a spot from my son since he got in EA as well. And I know she did not give a reason because she did not have to - our public school did not limit applications in any way. I also think it is fair to assume that her top choice was the school to which she applied restrictive EA and ended up attending.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apart from the collusion issue (which I think is a real obstacle), a key difference that makes it quite hard to import the UK system to the US is the US colleges' and universities' unwillingness to post entry requirements or guidelines. When you apply to a school in the UK, the university tells you the general minimum qualifications required for an offer. This has a natural winnowing effect that makes selecting only five unis to apply to more of a sure thing for applicants at every level. Secondly, there is a LOT more gatekeeping by secondary school counselors. This cuts down significantly on the YOLO applications but I think most American parents would find it intolerable.

Re: the gatekeeping. From what I understand, this is already happening in very prestigious private school, and the parents are somehow OK with that.

What does that gatekeeping look like? It's news to me. My kid went to a local private but I don't know if your concept of prestige extends to Big 3-type schools.

My son went to a public school. A girl in his graduating class got into seven Ivies. She got into one (presumably her first choice) via EA, so after that she sent in at least 6 more applications. Private school parents told me that this would never happen in their schools, the counselors would not allow more than a couple additional applications, and only if she gave them a very good reason.

How do you know she didn't give them a reason? And why should she not be allowed to apply to more if the schools allow it? She didn't apply ED so that is her right. And you use the word "presumably" in your post, which is never a good way to make a point.

Are you insinuating her actions were somehow unfair and cost your son a spot? I am "presuming" that. Since we are allowed to, apparently.

Anonymous wrote:No more legacy advantage. Or “my daddy built a building on campus” admissions.

Who else will cover all that tuition which most people don’t pay if you deny the rich kids? That is the model.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apart from the collusion issue (which I think is a real obstacle), a key difference that makes it quite hard to import the UK system to the US is the US colleges' and universities' unwillingness to post entry requirements or guidelines. When you apply to a school in the UK, the university tells you the general minimum qualifications required for an offer. This has a natural winnowing effect that makes selecting only five unis to apply to more of a sure thing for applicants at every level. Secondly, there is a LOT more gatekeeping by secondary school counselors. This cuts down significantly on the YOLO applications but I think most American parents would find it intolerable.

Re: the gatekeeping. From what I understand, this is already happening in very prestigious private school, and the parents are somehow OK with that.

What does that gatekeeping look like? It's news to me. My kid went to a local private but I don't know if your concept of prestige extends to Big 3-type schools.

My son went to a public school. A girl in his graduating class got into seven Ivies. She got into one (presumably her first choice) via EA, so after that she sent in at least 6 more applications. Private school parents told me that this would never happen in their schools, the counselors would not allow more than a couple additional applications, and only if she gave them a very good reason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apart from the collusion issue (which I think is a real obstacle), a key difference that makes it quite hard to import the UK system to the US is the US colleges' and universities' unwillingness to post entry requirements or guidelines. When you apply to a school in the UK, the university tells you the general minimum qualifications required for an offer. This has a natural winnowing effect that makes selecting only five unis to apply to more of a sure thing for applicants at every level. Secondly, there is a LOT more gatekeeping by secondary school counselors. This cuts down significantly on the YOLO applications but I think most American parents would find it intolerable.

It's interesting to note that on this thread several people are calling for a limit to the number of applications that can be submitted, but on one of the other threads about admissions from elite private high schools in the areas, several parents are irate by these school-imposed limits.

Which brings me back to the point I made up-thread, which is that what parents want is for their kids to be admitted to their school of choice. Full stop. If that doesn't happen, something must be wrong with the system.

You are absolutely, positively 100% correct.

And not one of these silly suggestions enables that. Because none of them magically make more chairs when the music stops.

Anonymous wrote:Apart from the collusion issue (which I think is a real obstacle), a key difference that makes it quite hard to import the UK system to the US is the US colleges' and universities' unwillingness to post entry requirements or guidelines. When you apply to a school in the UK, the university tells you the general minimum qualifications required for an offer. This has a natural winnowing effect that makes selecting only five unis to apply to more of a sure thing for applicants at every level. Secondly, there is a LOT more gatekeeping by secondary school counselors. This cuts down significantly on the YOLO applications but I think most American parents would find it intolerable.

It's interesting to note that on this thread several people are calling for a limit to the number of applications that can be submitted, but on one of the other threads about admissions from elite private high schools in the areas, several parents are irate by these school-imposed limits.

Which brings me back to the point I made up-thread, which is that what parents want is for their kids to be admitted to their school of choice. Full stop. If that doesn't happen, something must be wrong with the system.

Anonymous wrote:No more legacy advantage. Or “my daddy built a building on campus” admissions.

Everyone finds developmental admits distasteful, including admissions officers. But I must point out a few things:

1) There are very, very few of these, and eliminating them would have no substantive effect on admissions. In fact, it might not even open one slot per year.

2) All the students - including pell grant students and full pay academic admits - get to use that building. So all students benefit from development admits.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apart from the collusion issue (which I think is a real obstacle), a key difference that makes it quite hard to import the UK system to the US is the US colleges' and universities' unwillingness to post entry requirements or guidelines. When you apply to a school in the UK, the university tells you the general minimum qualifications required for an offer. This has a natural winnowing effect that makes selecting only five unis to apply to more of a sure thing for applicants at every level. Secondly, there is a LOT more gatekeeping by secondary school counselors. This cuts down significantly on the YOLO applications but I think most American parents would find it intolerable.

Re: the gatekeeping. From what I understand, this is already happening in very prestigious private school, and the parents are somehow OK with that.

What does that gatekeeping look like? It's news to me. My kid went to a local private but I don't know if your concept of prestige extends to Big 3-type schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No more legacy advantage. Or “my daddy built a building on campus” admissions.

Agree - even thought there are fewer than you suspect, it is obvious when the kid was an average student in HS and suddenly become a HYPS admit!

I think numbers are the only fair way, the more numbers the better - combined with what the kid really wants to do. It is clear when mom (it is always mom) steered a kid toward an interest - colleges can see right through that.

It is only clear when it is done in a heavy handed way. Otherwise, I know a kid who got into Yale this year; heavily managed by the mom, but also highly motivated and with real achievements. How do you untangle that?

Anonymous wrote:Apart from the collusion issue (which I think is a real obstacle), a key difference that makes it quite hard to import the UK system to the US is the US colleges' and universities' unwillingness to post entry requirements or guidelines. When you apply to a school in the UK, the university tells you the general minimum qualifications required for an offer. This has a natural winnowing effect that makes selecting only five unis to apply to more of a sure thing for applicants at every level. Secondly, there is a LOT more gatekeeping by secondary school counselors. This cuts down significantly on the YOLO applications but I think most American parents would find it intolerable.

Re: the gatekeeping. From what I understand, this is already happening in very prestigious private school, and the parents are somehow OK with that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No more legacy advantage. Or “my daddy built a building on campus” admissions.

Agree - even thought there are fewer than you suspect, it is obvious when the kid was an average student in HS and suddenly become a HYPS admit!

I think numbers are the only fair way, the more numbers the better - combined with what the kid really wants to do. It is clear when mom (it is always mom) steered a kid toward an interest - colleges can see right through that.

To add, one kid even claimed their parents are both HYPS legacies - um, no. No, they are not. Too funny!

Anonymous wrote:No more legacy advantage. Or “my daddy built a building on campus” admissions.

Agree - even thought there are fewer than you suspect, it is obvious when the kid was an average student in HS and suddenly become a HYPS admit!

I think numbers are the only fair way, the more numbers the better - combined with what the kid really wants to do. It is clear when mom (it is always mom) steered a kid toward an interest - colleges can see right through that.

Apart from the collusion issue (which I think is a real obstacle), a key difference that makes it quite hard to import the UK system to the US is the US colleges' and universities' unwillingness to post entry requirements or guidelines. When you apply to a school in the UK, the university tells you the general minimum qualifications required for an offer. This has a natural winnowing effect that makes selecting only five unis to apply to more of a sure thing for applicants at every level. Secondly, there is a LOT more gatekeeping by secondary school counselors. This cuts down significantly on the YOLO applications but I think most American parents would find it intolerable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is exactly what I would do, for starters. Pick your five schools, and get on with it. This applying to 20 schools ridiculous.

Who benefits from this? How would this improve anything?

Schools don’t need to manage yield and will be making their decisions solely on whether they want this student. If they know they are one of five, they know you are serious.

Exactly. They know immediately that you didn’t just throw them in at the last minute, to the list of 20 other random schools you’re applying to. It would make a huge difference. Plus, admissions offices wouldn’t be inundated with thousands of meaningless applications.

Colleges don't care if you added them at the last minute if they want you.

Admissions offices are not "inundated". They want as many students to choose from as they can and they can handle it. If they didn't they would fill the entire class ED/SCEA. You are applying a solution to a thing that is not a problem, and certainly not your problem.

This would not make anything better and would make a whole lot worse for both students and the colleges. Do you think you thought of this and no one in admissions has? If this was a good idea it would be implemented already. It is a bad idea.

No, it would’t be implemented in US because of antitrust considerations. Our laws don’t allow colleges to talk to each other and make any joint decisions limiting competition. Even the idea that a college can’t go after an applicant who already accepted somewhere else got shut down a couple of years ago.

The US college admission game is a classic prisoner’s dilemma - cooperation would be beneficial for all, but the benefits to a single entity that doesn’t cooperate are huge, so everyone refuses to cooperate and we are all worse off.

The only people that struggle are those trying to get into highly competitive schools - 50-100 or so out of 3,000 colleges. There’s still the same number of seats and the same number of kids will get admitted. Changing this doesn’t make it easier for the kids applying to those schools, it makes it harder, as essentially it is a “5 school ED”.

If you are correct that the only reason this is not done is because of antitrust laws (a position unsupported by evidence) then I will point out that anti-trust laws exist for a reason, and that reason is to protect the populace. So that’s really not a good argument for why it would somehow be “better” for applicants.

Instead of using general terms like “better” and “easier”, why don’t you mention a specific problem that this addresses and how it makes it “better”?

No more legacy advantage. Or “my daddy built a building on campus” admissions.