I emailed in a question to DOE re: whether the VMPI lets kids do calculus and full IB diploma without summer school. They said yes.

Anonymous wrote:Calculus is not about knowing how to do higher level math. It's about higher level logical and critical thinking. Wow, this is awful.

Because why? I was just reading today about some chemical engineer who was talking about how she was hired by this exclusive company for her problem solving capabilities more than her math expertise. Math is a part of problem solving, but it's also a tool to learn strategy, planning, verbalizing, detailing, executing, analyzing. Just like writing isn't just about writing good sentences. There is a lot in writing that deals with thinking and communicating well. People who write well and do math well are strong thinkers, problem solvers, and communicators. That's why these subjects have lasted so long.

Calculus is not about knowing how to do higher level math. It's about higher level logical and critical thinking. Wow, this is awful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VOTE.

VOTE.

There is an election in November for statewide offices.

Vote out the idiots you elected last time.

What are the alternatives? And how are they different than these idiots?

Well there is a fool on this board that always says they will "care about education and not equity". As if those are inextricable. At best you get someone like that but benign, at worst you get the Trumpian wing of the party which is likely and its a shit show for a place that isn't just white, hetero, religious, etc.

I do wish the school board for FCPS wasn't such a political stepping stone. I do agree that is an issue because the size of the district certainly lends itself to people who are more ambition focused vs mission focused. I will give people that gripe. But "vote RED YALL" is not exactly a solution here. People's values are going to kick in and they won't vote for the opposition endorsed candidates if they show they are aligned with the kinds of people who storm the capitol, for example.

Will they vote for the candidates aligned with the kinds of people who rioted & burned cities all summer? Their kill count is higher.

Not as high as the rednecks who stormed the Capitol. Try again Karen!

“Mathematics today requires not only computational skills but also the ability
to think and reason mathematically in order to solve the new problems and learn the new ideas that students will face in the future. Learning is enhanced in classrooms where students are required to evaluate their own ideas and those of others, are encouraged to make mathematical conjectures and test them, and are helped to develop their reasoning skills.”

A problem-solving approach is not only a way for developing students’ thinking, but it also provides a context for learning mathematical concepts. Problem-solving allows students to transfer what they have already learned to unfamiliar situations. A problem-solving approach provides a way for students to actively construct their ideas about mathematics and to take responsibility for their learning. The challenge for mathematics teachers is to develop the students’ mathematical thinking process alongside the knowledge and to create opportunities to present even routine mathematics tasks in problem-solving contexts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents need to be good at Maths and teach their kids themselves.

I can get my kids through Algebra I and part of Geometry and Statistics. I should not have to learn Calculus to teach my kid. I'm a liberal arts major and last took calc in 1995. I certainly hope someone who teaches for a living could do better than I could.

I think this is exactly the point the VDOE is making. Very, very few people need calculus in their lives.

I don't use calculus directly in my life, but am an excellent problem solver. Higher level math teaches problem solving at a very complex level. Being that the world is getting more complex, I think this is a very important skill for many to have.

https://www.generationready.com/mathematics-as-a-complex-problem-solving-activity/

From the last paragraph:
"Given the efforts to date to include problem-solving as an integral component of the mathematics curriculum and the limited implementation in classrooms, it will take more than rhetoric to achieve this goal. While providing valuable professional learning, resources, and more time are essential steps, it is possible that problem-solving in mathematics will only become valued when high-stakes assessment reflects the importance of students’ solving of complex problems."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do kids need to take Calculus in high school anyway?

My high school didn't even offer calculus. I simply took a year of it freshman year of college, majored in mathematics, got a master's in a STEM area, and have been working on a STEM field ever since.

What benefit would taking calculus in high school have given me?

Well, here in the 2020s, nearly all HSs offer calculus and college applicants without calc A/B aren't as competitive as ones who did take it in HS. Students who finished B/C are even better positioned for highly selective college acceptance. (This is like saying that when my mom graduated, all you needed was a HS diploma to get a job so why are so many people going to college today when you have to have a BA for a lot of admin jobs. Things change over time.)

Even and my mediocre, non-FCPS HS offered calculus in HS in 1993, and my husband's crappy rural school system at least offered a dual enrollment option so they could take it at the local CC since the HS didn't have a calculus teacher.

So it's all about getting into the "right" college, or as the one poster pointed out, financial benefits of a shorter college experience, without any real educational benefits?

FWIW, I found that many of my APs I took in HS were more rigorous than what I would have taken in college. I definitely learned calculus better in the HS environment than I would have in an introductory weed out college class. Plus, it covered some of the Calc III content, so that helped me do well in that course also.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents need to be good at Maths and teach their kids themselves.

I can get my kids through Algebra I and part of Geometry and Statistics. I should not have to learn Calculus to teach my kid. I'm a liberal arts major and last took calc in 1995. I certainly hope someone who teaches for a living could do better than I could.

I think this is exactly the point the VDOE is making. Very, very few people need calculus in their lives.

I don't use calculus directly in my life, but am an excellent problem solver. Higher level math teaches problem solving at a very complex level. Being that the world is getting more complex, I think this is a very important skill for many to have.

https://www.generationready.com/mathematics-as-a-complex-problem-solving-activity/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents need to be good at Maths and teach their kids themselves.

I can get my kids through Algebra I and part of Geometry and Statistics. I should not have to learn Calculus to teach my kid. I'm a liberal arts major and last took calc in 1995. I certainly hope someone who teaches for a living could do better than I could.

I think this is exactly the point the VDOE is making. Very, very few people need calculus in their lives.

So, because I don't need/use calculus, we can just drop it for everyone? That's ridiculous. I graduated from HS in 1992, and I took typing on an actual typewriter as a junior. Jobs now require stronger skills in technology, and technology is built using higher-level math, statistics, and programming logic. It's not that everyone needs it, but it's far more important than it was in the 90s.

I also think it's absurd to call this "pathways" when really there is ONE path with zero choice until junior year.

Anonymous wrote:Why do kids need to take Calculus in high school anyway?

My high school didn't even offer calculus. I simply took a year of it freshman year of college, majored in mathematics, got a master's in a STEM area, and have been working on a STEM field ever since.

What benefit would taking calculus in high school have given me?

Back then:
-Many programs were structured to allow for kids to take Calc in college
-Grades weren't watered down, so colleges could use GPA to distinguish between students strong in math and ones who are above average but not particularly strong
-In many cases, skipping calc was advantageous and would allow students to take upper division courses earlier in their college careers. I loved having enough AP credits in many different subjects to skip all of the 101 courses and instead jump into much meatier upper division coursework.

Nowadays:
-Most good programs assume that the kids have already taken calculus. Not taking it would either put you behind or put you at a disadvantage compared to the kids who already have taken it if the college requires its own version of a rigorous calc course.
-Grades are inflated, so AP test scores are one of the only ways for colleges to distinguish between very strong math students and good but not great ones.
-While the VA state schools will re-structure to accommodate the lack of calculus for VA public grads, the rest of the country will not be doing so. It will be much harder for VA kids without calculus to get into out-of-state or private college programs.
-College is expensive, and any class that can be taken in high school rather than college saves a significant amount of money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Their argument seems to be that, 'eh, people don't need calculus, they need DATA SCIENCE. And if they do need calculus they can take it in college'.

But data science heavily relies on calculus and many post-calc maths like linear algebra. When these VDOE people started pushing DATA SCIENCE!!!, did they not even bother looking into what the field requires?

Seriously. I'm looking at getting into a data field and very quickly realized that I do NOT have the math background for data science and only barely have the statistics background that business analysis requires. Data science is hard math and computer science - the program at GMU would only accept me provisionally and required that I take and get an A or B in their crash course in programming and math to be admitted. I believe at Mason that it's part of the college of engineering.

Anonymous wrote:So how do they grade 9th grade math under this system? Before, a kid who was above average in an honors class would get a B or a B-, but it would be boosted and an above average non-honors would jus get the B, B-. The difference gets reflected on the transcript, but the non-honors kid still has the B on their report card. Now that all those kids are in the same room, does the teacher just hand out more C-s and Ds to reflect the stark differences between students (the kid would would be getting the A+ in the honors class vs. the kid struggling in the gen class)?

The obvious answer is that nearly everyone would get an A. They're hardly going to detrack the math, only to give all of the lower performing kids bad grades. There will be absolutely no way to distinguish between a math whiz and a very average kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Their argument seems to be that, 'eh, people don't need calculus, they need DATA SCIENCE. And if they do need calculus they can take it in college'.

But data science heavily relies on calculus and many post-calc maths like linear algebra. When these VDOE people started pushing DATA SCIENCE!!!, did they not even bother looking into what the field requires?

So how do they grade 9th grade math under this system? Before, a kid who was above average in an honors class would get a B or a B-, but it would be boosted and an above average non-honors would jus get the B, B-. The difference gets reflected on the transcript, but the non-honors kid still has the B on their report card. Now that all those kids are in the same room, does the teacher just hand out more C-s and Ds to reflect the stark differences between students (the kid would would be getting the A+ in the honors class vs. the kid struggling in the gen class)?