Anonymous
05/23/2012 16:13
Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
Not that I don't understand the frustration that I believe causes you to say this, but using your logic, all the OOB kids should also be kicked out of Deal and Hardy.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Or closing E-H down and reopening it as a Hill-only school? Remodeling is beside the point - Eastern has done that on a grand scale without attracting white families. As things stand, E-H will surely remain one of the Anacostia transplant schools, just one with more students. How will that benefit those of us paying property tax on expensive Hill homes?
Why would DCPS ever want to do that? Out of boundary students are the only thing that kept Ludlow-Taylor and Elliot open over the past decade. Now that you've spent a large sum of money on a CH townhouse, DCPS should kick those families out? In boundary parents already have first dibs on their neightborhood schools and if they wanted could certainly become a significant population at the school.
I would be more sympathetic to in boundary complaints if they focused on the level of the schools academic offerings, or the academic readiness of their cohort. But arguing that kids from the other side of the river should attend is ridiculous.
You mean that arguing that kids from the other side of the river should NOT attend? No, not ridiculous, it's life in the city. For example, the other day several squad cars were parked in front of SH late in the day. When I asked a kid coming out of the school what was going on, he shrugged and said "Oh, just some 8th grade boys from Anacostia fighting with knives. It's happened before." Hill families deserve schools they are comfortable with for their hefty property tax payments, so compromise should be the order of the day. DCPS wouldn't want to do this of course, far more convenient for the city to grab our tax dollars to provide education mainly for other people's children.
With Hill schools for Hill kids you, could, for example, bus Ward 7 and 8 kids who scored "advanced" on the 5th grade DC-CAS over with minimal controversy. Call it heresy, but I dearly wish that LT and E-H had in fact closed a decade ago. Then we wouldn't be spreading the middle-class cohort so thin around the Hill, leading to far more IB parents feeling comfortable keeping kids in the upper ES grades and MS. There's a fairness issue with local taxpayers paying to educate other mobs of people's children (particulary those who reside in MD) when they want and deserve schools serving their own well. Phase the OOB kids out, don't let them in anymore, do whatever it takes to enable the middle-class families who live here, love the neighborhood and pay the bulk of the property tax (having poured their life savings into homes) to stay in the city and enjoy the hard-earned fruits of their labors. And I say this having worked as a Dem staffer for a dyed-in-the-wool liberal.
Anonymous
05/23/2012 16:07
Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
I'm not clear how Wells could have an impact on this. It's the mayor's office that controls the schools these days, ever since Fenty took them over. Pp, what could Tommy do that he isn't doing? I don't see how the Council has any power over this but educate me.Anonymous wrote:+1. I'm on 6th and know how you feel. But Tommy Wells doesn't give a damn and, as long as he's in, I don't see all that much changing.
The extra room at Peabody is not a one-off arrangement. With the School Within a School program gone for good, 4 dozen proximity slots will be open from now on. With better access to Peabody, the upper-middle-class Stanton Park area crowd won't be returning to LT in great numbers. The LT waiting list for preK will remain long, and a few more adventurous families will stay for K, 1st, maybe 2nd, and yes, the raggedly building will look much better soon. But no earth-shattering changes afoot. No facilities on a par with Brent's in train.
Anonymous
05/23/2012 16:03
Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
Apples & oranges. Call me a bridge person on these issues. I'm a "rising" Brent parent who can assure you that the LT and Brent situations aren't comparable. We bought in SE last year to escape LT as much as anything else.
The address cheater issue at LT is no joke - there's a strong sense of ownership at LT by a gaggle of PG Country people (yes, AA) who should no longer be in the picture. Parents talk about closing LT because concentrating energies on expanding Peabody might actually be a practical & reasonable solution. It's easy to blame IB parents for whining when DCPS hasn't listened for a good five years now.
My understanding was that, when Brent started turning around, DCPS was hardly on the radar for most IB families. Times have changed and with Peabody drawing in so many LT families again, LT parents will probably not build the critical mass of IB families, and the momentum, to change much. Wiping the slate clean isn't always the way to go, but sometimes it is. Michelle Rhee got that one.
I hope something changes radically at LT for the sake of friends left behind - housing the Peabody SWW there sounds like a terrific idea. If that means "closing" and re-opening, so be it.
The address cheater issue at LT is no joke - there's a strong sense of ownership at LT by a gaggle of PG Country people (yes, AA) who should no longer be in the picture. Parents talk about closing LT because concentrating energies on expanding Peabody might actually be a practical & reasonable solution. It's easy to blame IB parents for whining when DCPS hasn't listened for a good five years now.
My understanding was that, when Brent started turning around, DCPS was hardly on the radar for most IB families. Times have changed and with Peabody drawing in so many LT families again, LT parents will probably not build the critical mass of IB families, and the momentum, to change much. Wiping the slate clean isn't always the way to go, but sometimes it is. Michelle Rhee got that one.
I hope something changes radically at LT for the sake of friends left behind - housing the Peabody SWW there sounds like a terrific idea. If that means "closing" and re-opening, so be it.
Anonymous
05/23/2012 15:29
Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
Anonymous wrote: And as for Brent, many OOB families would likely disagree with you about not being displaced - to me displaced means you no longer can attend the school because IB kids take up all the slots. There are far fewer slots for OOB kids now at Brent so how is that not displacement?
No OOB Brent kid has been kicked out of Brent-- and I believe all siblings OOB have been accommodated. So no one has been displaced.
Six years ago, Brent neighbors didn't walk into the school and say "All right, let's shut this school down, flush out all OOB kids back to their IB schools, and then reopen it a year later and it will be ours . . . ALL ours!!! Bwaa haaa haa!" That's what I'm getting from folks on this thread. If I misunderstood, I apologize.
Anonymous
05/23/2012 15:12
Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
This is all true. I just don't see hope for LT being closed, even if the closing were to benefit the IB population in a big way. Wells has never listened to the Stanton Park parents when they've voiced concerns about LT. If he had, the Lexington Pl. Block group would have prevailed on changing the boundary - they're 2 blocks from Peabody. They were told absolutely not by both Fenty and Gray people.
Anonymous
05/23/2012 15:07
Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
The fact that most of the kids are OB is not some new thing-- you surely bought in to the neighborhood knowing that was the way it was.
Actually, until recently, IB parents who wanted their children to attend Peabody--virtually all the middle-class families with DCPS aspirations--could get in easily enough. The LT district is full of families with kids at Watkins.
Many parents bought homes on the northeast side of Stanton Park believing that there children would attend Peabody, not understanding that the baby boom on CH would close the door for most. That changed just two years ago, leading to a brief influx of a good number of non-black IB families to LT's preschool. Suddenly, the SWS program at Peabody was out, 4 dozen new spots opened up, and most of those who had wanted in had a second shot. What's ugly is that IB families are the odd ones out in a school dominated by OOB families and address cheaters, and that the school population (2/3 FARM) looks almost nothing like the neighborhood population (largely upper-middle-class), unlike other areas of the West Hill. The concept that an IB population should have to wait a decade, as a Brent, to look a lot like the neighborhood population has become hackneyed. Moreover, Brent has never had the serious PC Country address cheating problem LT has. You aren't going to phase MD address cheaters out as long as their local grandmothers can get them in.
Actually, until recently, IB parents who wanted their children to attend Peabody--virtually all the middle-class families with DCPS aspirations--could get in easily enough. The LT district is full of families with kids at Watkins.
Many parents bought homes on the northeast side of Stanton Park believing that there children would attend Peabody, not understanding that the baby boom on CH would close the door for most. That changed just two years ago, leading to a brief influx of a good number of non-black IB families to LT's preschool. Suddenly, the SWS program at Peabody was out, 4 dozen new spots opened up, and most of those who had wanted in had a second shot. What's ugly is that IB families are the odd ones out in a school dominated by OOB families and address cheaters, and that the school population (2/3 FARM) looks almost nothing like the neighborhood population (largely upper-middle-class), unlike other areas of the West Hill. The concept that an IB population should have to wait a decade, as a Brent, to look a lot like the neighborhood population has become hackneyed. Moreover, Brent has never had the serious PC Country address cheating problem LT has. You aren't going to phase MD address cheaters out as long as their local grandmothers can get them in.
Anonymous
05/23/2012 15:07
Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
Shutting down LT just so that you rid the school of OB students and reopen with a fresh opportunity to attract IB students is a seriously messed up and ugly idea. If people that are inboundry at LT want to send their kid, then they should go there. The fact that most of the kids are OB is not some new thing-- you surely bought in to the neighborhood knowing that was the way it was.
Brent has changed from being predominantly OB to being predominantly IB over the course of a few years without displacing OB students. There is no reason that the LT IB neighborhood can't do the same. The fact is that if those OB students hadn't kept LTs numbers up, the school would have been sold off to some condo developer years ago. Maybe show a bit of appreciation for the fact that those OB students have enabled you to have a school that you can choose to walk your children to. Geez-- they are kids!! And their parents are sending their kids OB to LT because they believe that is the best thing for the family rather than just accepting what their neighborhood school provides. Isn't that what parents are supposed to do?? It's not like they are doing it to spite you. Again, it actually has helped the LT community because if it weren't for them the school would have been closed long ago.
this post is right on! this whole thread has become nauseating. we all want good schools for our kids. that does't mean WHITE kids!!! the way a lot of you posters sound, you just want to re-segregate city schools. some of you need to go back and read Brown v. Board of Education. Why should people of lesser means be stuck in their crappy neighborhood schools? if you bought a $700K victorian near L-T and think it's beneath your white kid to attend, too damn bad!
Anonymous
05/23/2012 15:01
Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
wait--wait--wait. So Jefferson is getting shut down-- and JEfferson kids will go to E-H instead? When is this happening??? what will happen to Jefferson? maybe a DCPS magnet International Bacch. middle school?
please, o please, o please!
signed,
very interested Brent parent
if you are a very interested brent parent, you should know that there is a middle school plan in place already. the EH feeder schools are working together to make EH desireable for our future MSers. We are trying to get an IB program (international bach.), and a better principal (one that community had an input on). there are meetings all the time. ask around!
Anonymous
05/23/2012 15:00
Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
14:45 - your logic is off. The fact that OOB families kept a school 'alive' is reason to treat those families super-respectfully when you're joining the school. It's not a reason to continue to keep the school alive. And as for Brent, many OOB families would likely disagree with you about not being displaced - to me displaced means you no longer can attend the school because IB kids take up all the slots. There are far fewer slots for OOB kids now at Brent so how is that not displacement?
Anonymous
05/23/2012 14:53
Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
I'm for LT closing because DCPS as a whole has too many schools, and CH as a subset also has too many schools. The existing student population would go to other schools -allowing those schools to be more filled. As for the 'coveted white population', they (along with the AA who live in the LT boundary) would now feed into a different school, namely Peabody/Watkins. This would help the Cluster school to become more IB as Peabody/Watkins currently are majority OOB. The IB LT families are happy because they now have a school that is more likely to be a 1st choice for them than LT was (yes, some will not be happy with Peabody/Watkins but they will be relatively few). And as for why 'dissenters of Ludlow' are upset, it really has nothing to do with the school being predominantly black - it has more to do with socioeconomics, the principal, how slowly the school is changing to reflect/welcome those that actually live IB, and the fact that IB families are not fighting for the school - not enough of them are trying to make it the school of choice for IB families. At some point, you got to call it quits (LT has had its shot, Payne and Miner have not yet had their shot so I wouldn't advocate closing either of those). With LT not yet having modernization, talk of school closings next year, and Peabody slated for modernization next year (meaning it could be changed to accommodate the LT IB families), the time is now to act to close LT and have the boundary now be part of Peabody/Watkins. There are certainly logistics that would need to be worked out, but it can be done, and it certainly needs to be done as DCPS has way too many schools.
Anonymous
05/23/2012 14:50
Subject: ludlow-taylor
Anonymous wrote:I must admit that I am a bit confused. Are the dissenters of Ludlow who want to close the school upset because the population is predominantly Black? If you close the school, where should those children then attend school? And if closing the school, how does that bring the coveted white population into a closed school. Afterall, the school will no longer exist.
No shortage of blacks in the Stanton Park neighborhood as eager to find alternatives to LT as others. The great majority of the students are OOB, or PG County address cheaters. The OOB students have IB schools they can attend as well as charters. The address cheaters do, too. With only a handful of exceptions, the coveted white parents would strongly prefer that their children attend Peabody/Watkins. White parents generally opt for LT, even for preschool, only after they have struck out elsewhere, or they wouldn't be leaving en masse for Peabody in the fall, now that new spots have opened up in PreK and K at the Cluster. If the IB LT population were to become IB for Peabody, almost everybody IB would be very pleased. Lexington Pl. Block (including 6th, 7th, D and E Streets) parents petioned DCPS for a boundary change into Peabody two years ago, but were shot down. The OOB group, with elderly relatives in the neighborhood used to scam addresses, would be furious, but since when should neighborhood schools cater to parents residing in other neighborhoods?
Anonymous
05/23/2012 14:45
Subject: ludlow-taylor
Shutting down LT just so that you rid the school of OB students and reopen with a fresh opportunity to attract IB students is a seriously messed up and ugly idea. If people that are inboundry at LT want to send their kid, then they should go there. The fact that most of the kids are OB is not some new thing-- you surely bought in to the neighborhood knowing that was the way it was.
Brent has changed from being predominantly OB to being predominantly IB over the course of a few years without displacing OB students. There is no reason that the LT IB neighborhood can't do the same. The fact is that if those OB students hadn't kept LTs numbers up, the school would have been sold off to some condo developer years ago. Maybe show a bit of appreciation for the fact that those OB students have enabled you to have a school that you can choose to walk your children to. Geez-- they are kids!! And their parents are sending their kids OB to LT because they believe that is the best thing for the family rather than just accepting what their neighborhood school provides. Isn't that what parents are supposed to do?? It's not like they are doing it to spite you. Again, it actually has helped the LT community because if it weren't for them the school would have been closed long ago.
Brent has changed from being predominantly OB to being predominantly IB over the course of a few years without displacing OB students. There is no reason that the LT IB neighborhood can't do the same. The fact is that if those OB students hadn't kept LTs numbers up, the school would have been sold off to some condo developer years ago. Maybe show a bit of appreciation for the fact that those OB students have enabled you to have a school that you can choose to walk your children to. Geez-- they are kids!! And their parents are sending their kids OB to LT because they believe that is the best thing for the family rather than just accepting what their neighborhood school provides. Isn't that what parents are supposed to do?? It's not like they are doing it to spite you. Again, it actually has helped the LT community because if it weren't for them the school would have been closed long ago.
Anonymous
05/23/2012 14:12
Subject: ludlow-taylor
I must admit that I am a bit confused. Are the dissenters of Ludlow who want to close the school upset because the population is predominantly Black? If you close the school, where should those children then attend school? And if closing the school, how does that bring the coveted white population into a closed school. Afterall, the school will no longer exist.
Anonymous
05/23/2012 14:00
Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
Anonymous wrote:I agree that I LT should close - it's not serving the in-bounds families and the in-bounds families have not risen to the occassion to invest in it like they did for Brent and Maury (remember that Maury was on a list of possible school closures not 5 or 6 years ago).
With Peabody now having more spaces (since SWS is leaving) and Peabody/Watkins being a predominantly OOB school anyways, it makes sense to close LT and have that boundary now feed into Peabody/Watkins. Before all the rising pre-s families pitch a fit about fewer slots, you could increase the number of preschool and pre-K classes at Peabody and shrink the number of classes for the upper grades which would allow for Peabody/Watkins to have a higher IB percentage and could possibly then create space at SH to be able to allow Maury and/or Brent to feed into it which would then allow for SH to become a predominantly CH school and the Capitol Hill Cluster School population to actually reflect its name.
With the city tackling school closures next year, now is the time to let the deputy mayor for education, Tommy Wells, Kaya Henderson, Monica Warren-Jones, your ANC commissioners, and everybody else know that the community doesn't support LT staying open.
As for the idea about SWS taking over the LT building, I think that's a fine idea. Though I expect that Cluster parents will fight it as the pull will then be away from Peabody and towards LT in terms of proximity preference.
As for the 'gifted' program at Watkins, it's had fits and spurts - the PTA is funding the pull-out math but that is not for every grade at Watkins. The school knows that differentiation is an area it needs to work on - it is not yet there so when thinking about other schools, don't be dissuaded - these are struggles that are happening - there's just greater tolerance and greater willingness to problem-solve on the part of parents at some places than others.
Thanks for this. IB parents of young children who agree wholeheartedly that LT should be closed are not in short supply. Good idea that the number of slots should increase at Peabody (and Watkins 1st to 3rd?) proportionate to the number of slots in upper grades at Watkins.
The problem is going to be what to do with the large OOB LT population, especially the large special needs program. But then Rhee closed some ES schools, sending the OOB population packing, so perhaps it's not beyond the realm of possibility for the same to happen at LT.
The main political problem will surely come in the form of the elderly Stanton Park neighborhood voters with deep ties to LT resisting. They are, after all, the facilitators of the widespread address cheating, and have political capital. They won't be shut down without a bruising fight. Moreover, the LT PTA is probably still too AA, and the school's test scores too respectable relative to those coming out of most Anacostia schools (essentially serving the same population), for DCPS to play ball. Upper-middle-class voters with young children who don't see a quality ES education in the works at LT may still be too small a slice of the pie. Wells won't want to alienate the dwindling number of IB AA voters by closing LT.
I'll circulate your ideas to some LT parents bolting to Peabody for the fall at any rate, to see if I can generate some momentum on contacting the powers that be. Thanks again.
Anonymous
05/23/2012 12:55
Subject: Re:ludlow-taylor
I agree that I LT should close - it's not serving the in-bounds families and the in-bounds families have not risen to the occassion to invest in it like they did for Brent and Maury (remember that Maury was on a list of possible school closures not 5 or 6 years ago).
With Peabody now having more spaces (since SWS is leaving) and Peabody/Watkins being a predominantly OOB school anyways, it makes sense to close LT and have that boundary now feed into Peabody/Watkins. Before all the rising pre-s families pitch a fit about fewer slots, you could increase the number of preschool and pre-K classes at Peabody and shrink the number of classes for the upper grades which would allow for Peabody/Watkins to have a higher IB percentage and could possibly then create space at SH to be able to allow Maury and/or Brent to feed into it which would then allow for SH to become a predominantly CH school and the Capitol Hill Cluster School population to actually reflect its name.
With the city tackling school closures next year, now is the time to let the deputy mayor for education, Tommy Wells, Kaya Henderson, Monica Warren-Jones, your ANC commissioners, and everybody else know that the community doesn't support LT staying open.
As for the idea about SWS taking over the LT building, I think that's a fine idea. Though I expect that Cluster parents will fight it as the pull will then be away from Peabody and towards LT in terms of proximity preference.
As for the 'gifted' program at Watkins, it's had fits and spurts - the PTA is funding the pull-out math but that is not for every grade at Watkins. The school knows that differentiation is an area it needs to work on - it is not yet there so when thinking about other schools, don't be dissuaded - these are struggles that are happening - there's just greater tolerance and greater willingness to problem-solve on the part of parents at some places than others.
With Peabody now having more spaces (since SWS is leaving) and Peabody/Watkins being a predominantly OOB school anyways, it makes sense to close LT and have that boundary now feed into Peabody/Watkins. Before all the rising pre-s families pitch a fit about fewer slots, you could increase the number of preschool and pre-K classes at Peabody and shrink the number of classes for the upper grades which would allow for Peabody/Watkins to have a higher IB percentage and could possibly then create space at SH to be able to allow Maury and/or Brent to feed into it which would then allow for SH to become a predominantly CH school and the Capitol Hill Cluster School population to actually reflect its name.
With the city tackling school closures next year, now is the time to let the deputy mayor for education, Tommy Wells, Kaya Henderson, Monica Warren-Jones, your ANC commissioners, and everybody else know that the community doesn't support LT staying open.
As for the idea about SWS taking over the LT building, I think that's a fine idea. Though I expect that Cluster parents will fight it as the pull will then be away from Peabody and towards LT in terms of proximity preference.
As for the 'gifted' program at Watkins, it's had fits and spurts - the PTA is funding the pull-out math but that is not for every grade at Watkins. The school knows that differentiation is an area it needs to work on - it is not yet there so when thinking about other schools, don't be dissuaded - these are struggles that are happening - there's just greater tolerance and greater willingness to problem-solve on the part of parents at some places than others.