Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. We have UMD as an option too with cost similar to UVA. UMD is out as an option as we want son to be little bit away. I think that would be good for him. Son is ok going to Uva. Not shown any strong desire so far to go to Umich, but you never know.

Our DC is faced with a similar decision w Michigan and UVA, with UIUC and RPI thrown into the mix. DC has merit from RPI that brings the cost down closer to UVA. We are under the impression Uva CS is more theoretical, less hands on for undergrad. DC wants to do AI & ML with lots of hands on research opportunities. We are leaning towards the OOS options as they all seem to have lots of flexibility in their curriculum and lots of course offerings for the different concentration. UVA, although a great program, seems a bit more rigid. To be fair, UVA has not offer any virtual info sessions since DC's EA acceptance. The other schools have been quite generous in info sharing. DC participated in one of the zoom lectures with RPI and was beyond impressed.

Wonder if UVA will start sending invites to virtual tours and info sessions now that RD is out.

Great options, but hard to decide nevertheless.

UVA is a large public university. RPI is small (we toured) and private. RPI can throw more money at virtual info sessions. UVA just finished RD decisions yesterday and now has to worry about oversubscription. I think RPI is too small at 8000 undergrads for what your child wants to do. It sounds like he needs more areas to explore so I would opt for the larger university. But you really can't judge a college or university-based upon glossy brochures or online ads. You need to talk to people actually in the program. Call the heads of the departments. Call the admissions office and ask whom you should speak to about various programs. Express your concern about flexibility. And remember that your son (like mine) might enter as an aerospace engineer and come out pre-law as a history major. You don't want that experience at RPI. Or Ga Tech, etc.

PP here, can you elaborate on the bold statement. One would think being at a smaller school like RPI would give the student more flexibility in moving from one major to another (at least that is what has been eluded to in all the info sessions). Does this mean Michigan/UIUC would be a better fit (cost aside). This is a very interesting perspective and we are all ears.

Sure! What I'm trying to say is that there has been a seismic shift in the expectations of 17 and 18 years olds in how they apply to college in America. When I went, it was perfectly fine to say "undeclared" and then you pick a major as you explore topics in your college. It was not uncommon for students in my small liberal arts college to switch their majors two or three times. I wound up doubling in history and sociology. The trend today, however, is for these applicants to have a 100% goal in sight, to have participated in clubs and received national awards in that area, and come streaming onto campus "Engineering 100%!". And that's what the admissions offices look for too: "Is this kid 100% committed to engineering or premed or whatever, or are they going to flame out and get depressed?" It's sad, because these students aren't allowed to explore for a year or two in various interests, but it is what it is.

My double major led to law school and that all went well but it wasn't a well-thought-out plan at any stage. My parents had not attended college and had archaic notions of what a woman could do so I was pretty much on my own in selecting my own college. It all worked out well in the end but I didn't "present" as students do today as a finished package with a goal of electrical engineering and/or law career set in stone.

So in my DS's case, he developed a love of flying, met an astronaut and decided he was going to be an aerospace engineer. Fine. That's all good and he had the necessary statistics and calculus and the other high school courses that a Tech school or University with strong aerospace engineering program looks for. He applied to those schools that had strong engineering programs (Princeton, Olin, Wooster, Ga Tech, UVA, Cornell, etc.). Although we toured Va Tech and he loved it (it has its own wind tunnel), there was no ED at the time so he focused on his SCEA which was Princeton (deferred) and the state universities, which you are allowed to apply to while applying REA or SCEA. He got accepted to all of them so we toured Purdue, Ga Tech, Olin, Wooster, RPI, UVA, etc. Because he had Georgia Tech in his pocket he never did go back and apply to VT, although he did fly himself there for "engineers" day. Then for the hell of it, he applied RD to Cornell (strong aerospace) and Yale and Harvard, etc. because of legacy status but no big monetary gifts. (all waitlisted on Ivy day)

So he thought long and hard about what he really wanted to do with his life. He talked to the heads of the departments at both Ga. Tech and UVA (she's an astronaut - I don't know if she's still the chair). He talked to the Princeton people. And in the end he somehow knew that going to a "small" polytech or tech school would not give him the flexibility he wanted in case he changed majors. He didn't tell us this. He just decided after applying and doing well for the Jefferson Scholarship at UVA that he wanted UVA. And he knew that would make mommy and daddy happy too because we're instate, $$$, (and there are three siblings), although that was not a huge issue for us, and we had never stated that to him.

At UVA you apply in to a particular college. So he had applied in to engineering which means his first-year courses are set out for him: calculus (again), more math, computer science, computer programing, and a few electives which he took in history and politics department. Towards the end of the first year he called us and gravely said he had been thinking about majors for a long, long time, and had purposefully taken more history and economics classes and had decided to become a history/econ. major like mom and dad. I think he actually thought we'd be upset. I had been thinking "it's just a matter of time . . . ". We said "Go for it!". And so he filed the paper to leave the engineering program and enter into the College of Arts and Sciences. He did very well once he found his love and was ultimately accepted to Cambridge's History Department for grad work.

Had he been at Ga. Tech, when he decided to change majors, we probably would have been discussing a transfer because you really don't want to be a history or politics major at a Tech school. You definitely don't want to be a politics or history major at Ga. Tech or Purdue, although they all do have humanities programs. It's like spending the money to go to Cal Tech and major in Spanish literature. The employers who go to the small tech schools are looking for engineers, not English majors.

I'm also a big believer in a gap year, especially since this application year has been such a mess.

So read what I wrote to your son and see if any of this resonates with him. What I'm arguing for is a larger university where he can move around and find his own major and set of friends, i.e., he is not locked into the engineering major. I'm also arguing for a gap year so he can retest and reapply this fall. it has GOT to be better (?) than this year. I hope. At least he won't be battling against the 20% of the accepted students who took a year off due to covid and will be enteirng this fall.

Write back with any questions. If he is thinking about GMU I know a lot about it as well.

If cost isn’t an issue and/or there’s a chance DC won’t want STEM, I’d go with a Michigan.

Otherwise, RPI is an excellent option.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. We have UMD as an option too with cost similar to UVA. UMD is out as an option as we want son to be little bit away. I think that would be good for him. Son is ok going to Uva. Not shown any strong desire so far to go to Umich, but you never know.

Our DC is faced with a similar decision w Michigan and UVA, with UIUC and RPI thrown into the mix. DC has merit from RPI that brings the cost down closer to UVA. We are under the impression Uva CS is more theoretical, less hands on for undergrad. DC wants to do AI & ML with lots of hands on research opportunities. We are leaning towards the OOS options as they all seem to have lots of flexibility in their curriculum and lots of course offerings for the different concentration. UVA, although a great program, seems a bit more rigid. To be fair, UVA has not offer any virtual info sessions since DC's EA acceptance. The other schools have been quite generous in info sharing. DC participated in one of the zoom lectures with RPI and was beyond impressed.

Wonder if UVA will start sending invites to virtual tours and info sessions now that RD is out.

Great options, but hard to decide nevertheless.

UVA is a large public university. RPI is small (we toured) and private. RPI can throw more money at virtual info sessions. UVA just finished RD decisions yesterday and now has to worry about oversubscription. I think RPI is too small at 8000 undergrads for what your child wants to do. It sounds like he needs more areas to explore so I would opt for the larger university. But you really can't judge a college or university based upon glossy brochures or online ads. You need to talk to people actually in the program. Call the heads of the departments. Call the admissions office and ask whom you should speak to about various programs. Express your concern about flexibility. And remember that your son (like mine) might enter as an aerospace engineer and come out pre-law as a history major. You don't want that experience at RPI. Or Ga Tech, etc.

PP here, can you elaborate on the bold statement. One would think being at a smaller school like RPI would give the student more flexibility in moving from one major to another (at least that is what has been eluded to in all the info sessions). Does this mean Michigan/UIUC would be a better fit (cost aside). This is a very interesting perspective and we are all ears.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. We have UMD as an option too with cost similar to UVA. UMD is out as an option as we want son to be little bit away. I think that would be good for him. Son is ok going to Uva. Not shown any strong desire so far to go to Umich, but you never know.

Our DC is faced with a similar decision w Michigan and UVA, with UIUC and RPI thrown into the mix. DC has merit from RPI that brings the cost down closer to UVA. We are under the impression Uva CS is more theoretical, less hands on for undergrad. DC wants to do AI & ML with lots of hands on research opportunities. We are leaning towards the OOS options as they all seem to have lots of flexibility in their curriculum and lots of course offerings for the different concentration. UVA, although a great program, seems a bit more rigid. To be fair, UVA has not offer any virtual info sessions since DC's EA acceptance. The other schools have been quite generous in info sharing. DC participated in one of the zoom lectures with RPI and was beyond impressed.

Wonder if UVA will start sending invites to virtual tours and info sessions now that RD is out.

Great options, but hard to decide nevertheless.

UVA is a large public university. RPI is small (we toured) and private. RPI can throw more money at virtual info sessions. UVA just finished RD decisions yesterday and now has to worry about oversubscription. I think RPI is too small at 8000 undergrads for what your child wants to do. It sounds like he needs more areas to explore so I would opt for the larger university. But you really can't judge a college or university based upon glossy brochures or online ads. You need to talk to people actually in the program. Call the heads of the departments. Call the admissions office and ask whom you should speak to about various programs. Express your concern about flexibility. And remember that your son (like mine) might enter as an aerospace engineer and come out pre-law as a history major. You don't want that experience at RPI. Or Ga Tech, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. We have UMD as an option too with cost similar to UVA. UMD is out as an option as we want son to be little bit away. I think that would be good for him. Son is ok going to Uva. Not shown any strong desire so far to go to Umich, but you never know.

Our DC is faced with a similar decision w Michigan and UVA, with UIUC and RPI thrown into the mix. DC has merit from RPI that brings the cost down closer to UVA. We are under the impression Uva CS is more theoretical, less hands on for undergrad. DC wants to do AI & ML with lots of hands on research opportunities. We are leaning towards the OOS options as they all seem to have lots of flexibility in their curriculum and lots of course offerings for the different concentration. UVA, although a great program, seems a bit more rigid. To be fair, UVA has not offer any virtual info sessions since DC's EA acceptance. The other schools have been quite generous in info sharing. DC participated in one of the zoom lectures with RPI and was beyond impressed.

Wonder if UVA will start sending invites to virtual tours and info sessions now that RD is out.

Great options, but hard to decide nevertheless.

What is the source of your UVA info?

The UVA data is quite outdated, I have to admit. Know a few kids that went through the program a numbers of years ago. The program is fairly standard fare with all of the foundational and theory classes. Not a lot of hands on work as undergrad. These kids mostly went into IT or management consulting afterwards. Again, this was a few years ago.

DC is actively trying to look up info about the UVA CS via its website, but hasn't been able to find too much beyond the one or two offerings in each sub discipline such as AL or ML, or HCI (human computer interaction). Clubs don't seem to be very active either (as compared to the vast number of student STEM clubs/teams at U Mich). DC is planning to reach out to UVA CS professors to see if they can provide any insight or guidance. This has been an interesting thread to follow and we are open to constructive feedback on these schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. We have UMD as an option too with cost similar to UVA. UMD is out as an option as we want son to be little bit away. I think that would be good for him. Son is ok going to Uva. Not shown any strong desire so far to go to Umich, but you never know.

Our DC is faced with a similar decision w Michigan and UVA, with UIUC and RPI thrown into the mix. DC has merit from RPI that brings the cost down closer to UVA. We are under the impression Uva CS is more theoretical, less hands on for undergrad. DC wants to do AI & ML with lots of hands on research opportunities. We are leaning towards the OOS options as they all seem to have lots of flexibility in their curriculum and lots of course offerings for the different concentration. UVA, although a great program, seems a bit more rigid. To be fair, UVA has not offer any virtual info sessions since DC's EA acceptance. The other schools have been quite generous in info sharing. DC participated in one of the zoom lectures with RPI and was beyond impressed.

Wonder if UVA will start sending invites to virtual tours and info sessions now that RD is out.

Great options, but hard to decide nevertheless.

What is the source of your UVA info?

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. We have UMD as an option too with cost similar to UVA. UMD is out as an option as we want son to be little bit away. I think that would be good for him. Son is ok going to Uva. Not shown any strong desire so far to go to Umich, but you never know.

Our DC is faced with a similar decision w Michigan and UVA, with UIUC and RPI thrown into the mix. DC has merit from RPI that brings the cost down closer to UVA. We are under the impression Uva CS is more theoretical, less hands on for undergrad. DC wants to do AI & ML with lots of hands on research opportunities. We are leaning towards the OOS options as they all seem to have lots of flexibility in their curriculum and lots of course offerings for the different concentration. UVA, although a great program, seems a bit more rigid. To be fair, UVA has not offer any virtual info sessions since DC's EA acceptance. The other schools have been quite generous in info sharing. DC participated in one of the zoom lectures with RPI and was beyond impressed.

Wonder if UVA will start sending invites to virtual tours and info sessions now that RD is out.

Great options, but hard to decide nevertheless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here.

I had been patiently waiting for replies and reading them.

It looks overwhelming opinion is to not pay OOS cost with UVA as an option.

Almost everybody agrees that Umich is better in engineering than Uva.

At this point we are heavily leaning towards Uva. As one poster suggested, save the money for Grad school. If son is really good in engineering, we would need that.

One point I disagree with many posters is picking UMich for CS over Uva. Uva CS is very good, and close DC area provides abundance of opportunity with huge earning potential.

My worry was the other way round. That if my son sticks with core engineering (Mechanical/Aero), whether his prospects would be diminished by picking Uva over Umich.

You're pretty much right on. If he's set on doing CS it really doesn't matter what school he goes to. However, mech/aero will be much better in Michigan with job prospects being miles away. If for some reason there's a chance he will switch out of engineering, UVA would be the better choice.

And that's the problem. His love for Aero/Mechanical is more than CS. He would rather do something where he builds something than a desk job. But I have seen many kids who go down this path and when they see starting salaries of CS graduates in college, they switch to CS.

So, keeping all this in mind, here is the decision process for picking Uva (You never know, decision may change ) -

1. If son switches to CS, well and good.
2. If son sticks with core (Mechaincal/Aero), he would definitely need MS to get ahead. If he is good, he hopefully would get in a GAtech or equivalent for MS and we can use the saved money then.

Where does your son want to go? Mine in a similar situation (with UMD thrown into the mix at cost very close to that of UVA). His target is CS. We are struggling with the decision as well. Everyone talks about "fit" and "let the kid decide" but DS has no clue as to where he wants to go..

OP here. We have UMD as an option too with cost similar to UVA. UMD is out as an option as we want son to be little bit away. I think that would be good for him. Son is ok going to Uva. Not shown any strong desire so far to go to Umich, but you never know.

If he's ambivalent then just go with the cheaper option. Or at least tell him that.

Maybe that will spurn some interest one way or the other.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here.

I had been patiently waiting for replies and reading them.

It looks overwhelming opinion is to not pay OOS cost with UVA as an option.

Almost everybody agrees that Umich is better in engineering than Uva.

At this point we are heavily leaning towards Uva. As one poster suggested, save the money for Grad school. If son is really good in engineering, we would need that.

One point I disagree with many posters is picking UMich for CS over Uva. Uva CS is very good, and close DC area provides abundance of opportunity with huge earning potential.

My worry was the other way round. That if my son sticks with core engineering (Mechanical/Aero), whether his prospects would be diminished by picking Uva over Umich.

You're pretty much right on. If he's set on doing CS it really doesn't matter what school he goes to. However, mech/aero will be much better in Michigan with job prospects being miles away. If for some reason there's a chance he will switch out of engineering, UVA would be the better choice.

And that's the problem. His love for Aero/Mechanical is more than CS. He would rather do something where he builds something than a desk job. But I have seen many kids who go down this path and when they see starting salaries of CS graduates in college, they switch to CS.

So, keeping all this in mind, here is the decision process for picking Uva (You never know, decision may change ) -

1. If son switches to CS, well and good.
2. If son sticks with core (Mechaincal/Aero), he would definitely need MS to get ahead. If he is good, he hopefully would get in a GAtech or equivalent for MS and we can use the saved money then.

Where does your son want to go? Mine in a similar situation (with UMD thrown into the mix at cost very close to that of UVA). His target is CS. We are struggling with the decision as well. Everyone talks about "fit" and "let the kid decide" but DS has no clue as to where he wants to go..

OP here. We have UMD as an option too with cost similar to UVA. UMD is out as an option as we want son to be little bit away. I think that would be good for him. Son is ok going to Uva. Not shown any strong desire so far to go to Umich, but you never know.

Good luck with your decision!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here.

I had been patiently waiting for replies and reading them.

It looks overwhelming opinion is to not pay OOS cost with UVA as an option.

Almost everybody agrees that Umich is better in engineering than Uva.

At this point we are heavily leaning towards Uva. As one poster suggested, save the money for Grad school. If son is really good in engineering, we would need that.

One point I disagree with many posters is picking UMich for CS over Uva. Uva CS is very good, and close DC area provides abundance of opportunity with huge earning potential.

My worry was the other way round. That if my son sticks with core engineering (Mechanical/Aero), whether his prospects would be diminished by picking Uva over Umich.

You're pretty much right on. If he's set on doing CS it really doesn't matter what school he goes to. However, mech/aero will be much better in Michigan with job prospects being miles away. If for some reason there's a chance he will switch out of engineering, UVA would be the better choice.

And that's the problem. His love for Aero/Mechanical is more than CS. He would rather do something where he builds something than a desk job. But I have seen many kids who go down this path and when they see starting salaries of CS graduates in college, they switch to CS.

So, keeping all this in mind, here is the decision process for picking Uva (You never know, decision may change ) -

1. If son switches to CS, well and good.
2. If son sticks with core (Mechaincal/Aero), he would definitely need MS to get ahead. If he is good, he hopefully would get in a GAtech or equivalent for MS and we can use the saved money then.

Where does your son want to go? Mine in a similar situation (with UMD thrown into the mix at cost very close to that of UVA). His target is CS. We are struggling with the decision as well. Everyone talks about "fit" and "let the kid decide" but DS has no clue as to where he wants to go..

OP here. We have UMD as an option too with cost similar to UVA. UMD is out as an option as we want son to be little bit away. I think that would be good for him. Son is ok going to Uva. Not shown any strong desire so far to go to Umich, but you never know.

This is OP.

The above two comments are from me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here.

I had been patiently waiting for replies and reading them.

It looks overwhelming opinion is to not pay OOS cost with UVA as an option.

Almost everybody agrees that Umich is better in engineering than Uva.

At this point we are heavily leaning towards Uva. As one poster suggested, save the money for Grad school. If son is really good in engineering, we would need that.

One point I disagree with many posters is picking UMich for CS over Uva. Uva CS is very good, and close DC area provides abundance of opportunity with huge earning potential.

My worry was the other way round. That if my son sticks with core engineering (Mechanical/Aero), whether his prospects would be diminished by picking Uva over Umich.

You're pretty much right on. If he's set on doing CS it really doesn't matter what school he goes to. However, mech/aero will be much better in Michigan with job prospects being miles away. If for some reason there's a chance he will switch out of engineering, UVA would be the better choice.

And that's the problem. His love for Aero/Mechanical is more than CS. He would rather do something where he builds something than a desk job. But I have seen many kids who go down this path and when they see starting salaries of CS graduates in college, they switch to CS.

So, keeping all this in mind, here is the decision process for picking Uva (You never know, decision may change ) -

1. If son switches to CS, well and good.
2. If son sticks with core (Mechaincal/Aero), he would definitely need MS to get ahead. If he is good, he hopefully would get in a GAtech or equivalent for MS and we can use the saved money then.

Where does your son want to go? Mine in a similar situation (with UMD thrown into the mix at cost very close to that of UVA). His target is CS. We are struggling with the decision as well. Everyone talks about "fit" and "let the kid decide" but DS has no clue as to where he wants to go..

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here.

I had been patiently waiting for replies and reading them.

It looks overwhelming opinion is to not pay OOS cost with UVA as an option.

Almost everybody agrees that Umich is better in engineering than Uva.

At this point we are heavily leaning towards Uva. As one poster suggested, save the money for Grad school. If son is really good in engineering, we would need that.

One point I disagree with many posters is picking UMich for CS over Uva. Uva CS is very good, and close DC area provides abundance of opportunity with huge earning potential.

My worry was the other way round. That if my son sticks with core engineering (Mechanical/Aero), whether his prospects would be diminished by picking Uva over Umich.

OP - See the salary info. posted upthread. While they are close, Mich does have a bit of an advantage. Also, the list of companies hiring out of Mich will be substantially better than UVA and UMich also opens doors to west coast jobs (sure COL is higher but in the long run, wealth accumulation is better).

Also, not many kids in tech get a Masters. You don't really need one if you plan on working in Industry. Even if you do, at most schools you can get a Masters degree with one more year of school if you plan your courses right. Academia or a change in focus (i.e. Business or Law) requires a grad degree but the student can fund that themselves after a couple of years of work. I think most people talking about grad school are parents of kids pursuing non-Tech degrees.

I have read a lot about having the possibility of joining FAANG companies if go to Umich CS. First, that probably happens to top 10% of the students. I want to decide based on what opportunities are available to avg student. I think Uva CS avg student will have same if not more opportunities than avg Umich CS student. NoVa area is flooded with CS opportunities with avg kids getting more than 100K right out of college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here.

I had been patiently waiting for replies and reading them.

It looks overwhelming opinion is to not pay OOS cost with UVA as an option.

Almost everybody agrees that Umich is better in engineering than Uva.

At this point we are heavily leaning towards Uva. As one poster suggested, save the money for Grad school. If son is really good in engineering, we would need that.

One point I disagree with many posters is picking UMich for CS over Uva. Uva CS is very good, and close DC area provides abundance of opportunity with huge earning potential.

My worry was the other way round. That if my son sticks with core engineering (Mechanical/Aero), whether his prospects would be diminished by picking Uva over Umich.

You're pretty much right on. If he's set on doing CS it really doesn't matter what school he goes to. However, mech/aero will be much better in Michigan with job prospects being miles away. If for some reason there's a chance he will switch out of engineering, UVA would be the better choice.

And that's the problem. His love for Aero/Mechanical is more than CS. He would rather do something where he builds something than a desk job. But I have seen many kids who go down this path and when they see starting salaries of CS graduates in college, they switch to CS.

So, keeping all this in mind, here is the decision process for picking Uva (You never know, decision may change ) -

1. If son switches to CS, well and good.
2. If son sticks with core (Mechaincal/Aero), he would definitely need MS to get ahead. If he is good, he hopefully would get in a GAtech or equivalent for MS and we can use the saved money then.

Anonymous wrote:I am an engineer, I interview young engineering grads, and I wouldn't have known U Mich is any better than UVA unless you told me.
Just know that more local companies recruit on campus, so if his ultimate goal is back in Virginia then UVA may be the better choice.

I am a hiring manager in the engineering world and agree with this. I would not make much of a distinction between the 2 if going straight from BS to professional career. I can't speak to how graduate schools would regard the 2 experiences. Decent GPA, internships, and having some significant projects (either through internship, college courses, and/or on personal time) to demonstrate proficiency far outweigh the name of the school if getting a job right out of undergrad