Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/...hools-are-indefensible/618078/

Don’t let the title turn you off and give this a read!

This article was SO good and thought provoking. None of it was surprised because I figured things were the way they were regarding the chasm between private school and public schools; As well as the wealthy and everyone else.

The world has gotten more competitive. Hence the obsession with getting kids into the right school. Furthermore, I do think it’s unfair that public schools don’t have the same amount of resources as private school. I always knew they had more but I didn’t realize they had *that much more*. It’s no wonder that so many people that make it to the top come from private schools. It feels as if there are no hope for regular public school kids.

Again, really think that every parent should give this a read. Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts!
[Report Post]

This is nonsense. 70% of students at top colleges are from public schools and always have been.

What percentage of high school seniors are in public school? If it's more than 70% then this isn't nonsense.

It is nonsense when you take out the public schools students who would not be eligible for or ever apply to a top university.

2% of high school graduates come from independent schools, but make up 25% of top university student bodies.
Independent schools in DC boast a near 100% college enrollment rate. Wilson HS in DC has a 77% college enrollment rate.

I was a day student at a boarding school and I disagree with two components:

It's easier to get into college as a independent school student. You're better prepared for college, but unless you play some preppy sport as a recruit, it's not any easier to be admitted. There's a thread about UofM admissions on the college thread and a lot of elite schools have just as low admit rates as upper middle class public schools.

The other thing is diversity nowadays. My school was politically akin to Deerfield, where the students are split 50/50, but the parents leaned conservative. At the time, I hated it be because of how liberal I am. Nowadays, I'm pretty happy about its moderate stance. They don't use the word "anti-racism", they use "diversity and inclusion" still. After George Floyd this spring, they put out an announcement, but didn't say "Black Lives Matter". There has never been some message that the school is supposed to make the world more equal and just. It was about preparing kids for college and it still seems it hasn't fallen to the woke crowd. I just don't think the parents would tolerate it. But this may be atypical compared to independent schools in this area and other boarding schools.

Our son (white) attended a DC area private for his sport. Money absolutely talks at private schools. As much as he hated that aspect and it literally caused him so much grief that I can't even imagine how the minority kids felt, he absolutely believes and exhibits he had a much stronger HS education than our local, lower ranked FCPS which he also attended. It is a two-tiered system and is only getting worse as many of the top privates now have fairly large Chinese and foreign contingents of students as well so competition is international and not just limited to the US rich kids and FA sports kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The author is Caitlin Flanagan which makes every single word suspect. She is not remotely a trustworthy journalist.

I haven’t read the article yet, but I like Caitlin Flanagan. I’ve listened to her on a few podcasts and I don’t agree with her on everything, but I think she’s far from untrustworthy. She was also a teacher and counselor at Harvard-Westlake in LA, so I always enjoy her views on elite private vs. public education.

She taught there thirty years ago...,

Yes, and? That’s one of the main points of the articles—how things have changed at these schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The author is Caitlin Flanagan which makes every single word suspect. She is not remotely a trustworthy journalist.

I haven’t read the article yet, but I like Caitlin Flanagan. I’ve listened to her on a few podcasts and I don’t agree with her on everything, but I think she’s far from untrustworthy. She was also a teacher and counselor at Harvard-Westlake in LA, so I always enjoy her views on elite private vs. public education.

She taught there thirty years ago...,

Anonymous wrote:When is this magical time when getting into Yale was not easier if you were rich and well connected? Just like Sidwell doesn’t have to let in a representative mix of high school-age people who live in the DMV, Yale doesn’t have to let in a representative mix of college-age people. It’s not a moral failing on the part of either institution. They are businesses and have to take people who can pay for their services, both in tuition and in donations. If they can take some people who can’t because they can collect extra money from those who can, great. But, it’s baffling that we think that private colleges work any differently than private schools. These are not public goods. They do not need to have fair or equitable entry requirements. They must abide by the law, but public school students are not a protected class and the colleges are free to take the students they want to take.

Yale, Harvard, Princeton... could all exist indefinitely on their endowments. The idea that the paying students support the financial aid students is true for a lot of schools, but not these ones

When is this magical time when getting into Yale was not easier if you were rich and well connected? Just like Sidwell doesn’t have to let in a representative mix of high school-age people who live in the DMV, Yale doesn’t have to let in a representative mix of college-age people. It’s not a moral failing on the part of either institution. They are businesses and have to take people who can pay for their services, both in tuition and in donations. If they can take some people who can’t because they can collect extra money from those who can, great. But, it’s baffling that we think that private colleges work any differently than private schools. These are not public goods. They do not need to have fair or equitable entry requirements. They must abide by the law, but public school students are not a protected class and the colleges are free to take the students they want to take.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/...hools-are-indefensible/618078/

Don’t let the title turn you off and give this a read!

This article was SO good and thought provoking. None of it was surprised because I figured things were the way they were regarding the chasm between private school and public schools; As well as the wealthy and everyone else.

The world has gotten more competitive. Hence the obsession with getting kids into the right school. Furthermore, I do think it’s unfair that public schools don’t have the same amount of resources as private school. I always knew they had more but I didn’t realize they had *that much more*. It’s no wonder that so many people that make it to the top come from private schools. It feels as if there are no hope for regular public school kids.

Again, really think that every parent should give this a read. Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts!
[Report Post]

This is nonsense. 70% of students at top colleges are from public schools and always have been.

What percentage of high school seniors are in public school? If it's more than 70% then this isn't nonsense.

It is nonsense when you take out the public schools students who would not be eligible for or ever apply to a top university.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually agree with the author (whom I know nothing about). Objectively schools, especially those strongly left leaning such as GDS and Sidwell ( and people have said on this board that Holton has swung aggressively in the same direction) are in fact a complete contradiction. They have aggressively embraced what I will describe as hyper-liberalism, and yet charge circa $50,000 per child, per year to attend school. This does not feel like the "equality" they espouse. Can anyone not see the inherent contradiction?

So, would you rather these wealthy schools produce defenders of self-interested, unapologetic, right wing capitalists? What is it that you are proposing? Private schools are not going away.

As a liberal parent who sends my kids to a Big-3, I am fully aware of the hypocrisy of a "private school with a public mission," but I'd much rather have my kids grow up believing that they have responsibilities to people other than themselves rather than the alternative. There is a sense that with this amazing education, you're supposed to go out there and do some good in the world.
And the author presents the worst of these schools, I hope you are aware. The anecdotes aren't made-up, but they are caricatures that are far, far from the typical, nondescript interactions that make up the private school world.

botching like a strong dose of paternalism to complement elitism

What do you propose as the alternative? If you have smart, competent, well-educated kids who want to do some good in the world, what do you suggest they do? Because if these kids don't end up assuming leadership positions, you're going to find a society let by right-wing idiots who don't believe in science.

and the current approach prepares them perfectly to be limousine liberals. Acknowledge the problem, complain about the problem, possibly demand others try to fix the problem, but don't actually use your resources to address the problem and, the most important part, make sure that any fix does not impinge on your own privilege.

One side complains and undermines, the other side acts.

Your worldview is reflected in the congress.

not really. in any other country, the democrats in the US senate would be center right. The last big 'reform' they passed was a give away to health insurance companies. I don't see any environmental legislation working it's way through congress with a likelihood of passing, ditto for for worker protection bills and college affordability. They do talk a good game though- doubtless products of very fine independent school educations

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually agree with the author (whom I know nothing about). Objectively schools, especially those strongly left leaning such as GDS and Sidwell ( and people have said on this board that Holton has swung aggressively in the same direction) are in fact a complete contradiction. They have aggressively embraced what I will describe as hyper-liberalism, and yet charge circa $50,000 per child, per year to attend school. This does not feel like the "equality" they espouse. Can anyone not see the inherent contradiction?

So, would you rather these wealthy schools produce defenders of self-interested, unapologetic, right wing capitalists? What is it that you are proposing? Private schools are not going away.

As a liberal parent who sends my kids to a Big-3, I am fully aware of the hypocrisy of a "private school with a public mission," but I'd much rather have my kids grow up believing that they have responsibilities to people other than themselves rather than the alternative. There is a sense that with this amazing education, you're supposed to go out there and do some good in the world.
And the author presents the worst of these schools, I hope you are aware. The anecdotes aren't made-up, but they are caricatures that are far, far from the typical, nondescript interactions that make up the private school world.

botching like a strong dose of paternalism to complement elitism

What do you propose as the alternative? If you have smart, competent, well-educated kids who want to do some good in the world, what do you suggest they do? Because if these kids don't end up assuming leadership positions, you're going to find a society let by right-wing idiots who don't believe in science.

and the current approach prepares them perfectly to be limousine liberals. Acknowledge the problem, complain about the problem, possibly demand others try to fix the problem, but don't actually use your resources to address the problem and, the most important part, make sure that any fix does not impinge on your own privilege.

One side complains and undermines, the other side acts.

Your worldview is reflected in the congress.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/...hools-are-indefensible/618078/

Don’t let the title turn you off and give this a read!

This article was SO good and thought provoking. None of it was surprised because I figured things were the way they were regarding the chasm between private school and public schools; As well as the wealthy and everyone else.

The world has gotten more competitive. Hence the obsession with getting kids into the right school. Furthermore, I do think it’s unfair that public schools don’t have the same amount of resources as private school. I always knew they had more but I didn’t realize they had *that much more*. It’s no wonder that so many people that make it to the top come from private schools. It feels as if there are no hope for regular public school kids.

Again, really think that every parent should give this a read. Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts!
[Report Post]

This is nonsense. 70% of students at top colleges are from public schools and always have been.

What percentage of high school seniors are in public school? If it's more than 70% then this isn't nonsense.

Fundamentally, we choose the private schools for the quality of the education (I wish public were an option in DC after K-5) and no rule by parents or by exhaustion (from the same parents).

Although, the same small group of parents no one ever wants to engage with has been testing everyone’s patience in our private this year. Live and let live, and don’t water down our DC education or stress our teachers.

As the famous poet said about busybodies who can’t take a hint: you are few and no one likes you. We just want to get on with our lives and education.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually agree with the author (whom I know nothing about). Objectively schools, especially those strongly left leaning such as GDS and Sidwell ( and people have said on this board that Holton has swung aggressively in the same direction) are in fact a complete contradiction. They have aggressively embraced what I will describe as hyper-liberalism, and yet charge circa $50,000 per child, per year to attend school. This does not feel like the "equality" they espouse. Can anyone not see the inherent contradiction?

So, would you rather these wealthy schools produce defenders of self-interested, unapologetic, right wing capitalists? What is it that you are proposing? Private schools are not going away.

As a liberal parent who sends my kids to a Big-3, I am fully aware of the hypocrisy of a "private school with a public mission," but I'd much rather have my kids grow up believing that they have responsibilities to people other than themselves rather than the alternative. There is a sense that with this amazing education, you're supposed to go out there and do some good in the world.
And the author presents the worst of these schools, I hope you are aware. The anecdotes aren't made-up, but they are caricatures that are far, far from the typical, nondescript interactions that make up the private school world.

botching like a strong dose of paternalism to complement elitism

What do you propose as the alternative? If you have smart, competent, well-educated kids who want to do some good in the world, what do you suggest they do? Because if these kids don't end up assuming leadership positions, you're going to find a society let by right-wing idiots who don't believe in science.

and the current approach prepares them perfectly to be limousine liberals. Acknowledge the problem, complain about the problem, possibly demand others try to fix the problem, but don't actually use your resources to address the problem and, the most important part, make sure that any fix does not impinge on your own privilege.

Again, what is your solution?

no solution, just not pretending otherwise. Just accept that we pay a lot of money for our kids to get a great education and that education, by its very nature, gives them advantages not available to most. Don't pretend they are being taught to be great stewards of the nation or that somehow a few token admits makes every better. Just accept it for what it is

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The article deals with the most elite private schools. There are many private schools that aren't elite and where the gap between what is offered at the public schools aren't that great.

Exactly. Drawing the line at "public" vs. "private" is dumb. My kids go to a small religious private school where a good chunk of the student body is lower-income. The school is not academically selective. Full tuition is about half the cost of the upper tier privates in my city, and out of pocket costs after school vouchers are about $6K per kid. Families who earn less than 250% of the federal poverty level attend for free.

The democratic party wants to eliminate organized religions as well as wealthy people - so the effect is the same.

No, the Democrats (using democratic is a tell) are interested in science and facts leading policy. Democrats are religious, see Biden going to church every Sunday as an example, but that doesn't mean that Christianity superceds all other religions. Please use examples of where organized religion is being proposed for elimination.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually agree with the author (whom I know nothing about). Objectively schools, especially those strongly left leaning such as GDS and Sidwell ( and people have said on this board that Holton has swung aggressively in the same direction) are in fact a complete contradiction. They have aggressively embraced what I will describe as hyper-liberalism, and yet charge circa $50,000 per child, per year to attend school. This does not feel like the "equality" they espouse. Can anyone not see the inherent contradiction?

So, would you rather these wealthy schools produce defenders of self-interested, unapologetic, right wing capitalists? What is it that you are proposing? Private schools are not going away.

As a liberal parent who sends my kids to a Big-3, I am fully aware of the hypocrisy of a "private school with a public mission," but I'd much rather have my kids grow up believing that they have responsibilities to people other than themselves rather than the alternative. There is a sense that with this amazing education, you're supposed to go out there and do some good in the world.
And the author presents the worst of these schools, I hope you are aware. The anecdotes aren't made-up, but they are caricatures that are far, far from the typical, nondescript interactions that make up the private school world.

botching like a strong dose of paternalism to complement elitism

What do you propose as the alternative? If you have smart, competent, well-educated kids who want to do some good in the world, what do you suggest they do? Because if these kids don't end up assuming leadership positions, you're going to find a society let by right-wing idiots who don't believe in science.

and the current approach prepares them perfectly to be limousine liberals. Acknowledge the problem, complain about the problem, possibly demand others try to fix the problem, but don't actually use your resources to address the problem and, the most important part, make sure that any fix does not impinge on your own privilege.

Again, what is your solution?