Anonymous
01/29/2021 14:09
Subject: Re:Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I really wish I could tell whether this article is wise advice or just another UMC professional working from home who is sick of having his children underfoot (I googled — he has two children). In this debate it is so hard to separate the message from the messenger. People are more than happy to embrace risk when it’s not a risk to them personally.
How is that parents aren't undertaking any risk? I hear this a lot. If their kids go to school and get COVID, there's a high chance they might pass it on to their parents. Parents are at risk. Interhousehold transmission is high.
I think your point is that parents are willing to take that risk because they will derive a clear and significant benefit from it -- namely a huge increase in the quality of education of their children.
Teachers are not willing to take the risk because there's no such benefit to them, other than general society benefit. It's just human nature than that really isn't a motivating force like personal benefit.
Exactly this. There's no upside for teachers to go to work.
The “upside” to teachers to do their jobs should be that they get paid, and if they don’t do their jobs then they don’t get paid. The requirements of their jobs are clearly described in their employment contracts, and don’t involve sitting at home all day in their pajamas collecting full pay.
They could have offered some new positions to certain teachers for the DL stuff, at half pay. Some people would have done it, and some not. That’s fine. They could have grouped more kids together for the distance “learning”. But teachers should only have been getting full pay for doing their actual job.
Anonymous
01/29/2021 14:05
Subject: Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The respect for teachers have gone down tremendously after the pandemic. Before, we used to think it is noble profession and they care about teaching and students, blah blah blah. Some of the teacher may still care, but overall it is quite clear that they don't really care about teaching or students well being. Anytime you mention teaching in person, they revert back and tell you that they are not babysitters. The fact of the matter is that no one is expecting them to be babysitters, at least do the job for which you are getting paid which is teaching IN-PERSON.
I think gets to the root of the argument. Our social contract has a fundamental disconnect.
Teachers want to teach. They went into the profession focusing on the teaching. I’m sure they didn’t go into it just so they could watch kids all day.
Many working parents are happy to send their kids to school so they don’t have to pay for childcare anymore. There is an unstated social contract that schools provide childcare for X days/year.
Many teachers can teach via DL and while not ideal circumstances are doing their best to do what they signed up to do. Teach.
Working parents are now left with no childcare and are freaking out.
Teachers and working parents have fundamental differences in what school means to them.
Yeah, it’s how a society works.
Unless you have an idea of how to create a society in which every working parent is able to work from home full-time?
Stop acting like working parents expecting schools to be open is somehow selfish or “treating school like childcare.” It’s quite possibly one of the stupidest arguments I’ve ever heard.
Anonymous
01/29/2021 14:03
Subject: Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Couldn't agree with this more. Its time to step up and help out the students who have been out of the classroom for almost a year now.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/25/teachers-are-vital-public-servants-time-them-start-acting-like-it/
Sure. How are we doing on air cleaners, PPE, contact tracing, testing, and safe lunch plans? Last I checked, teachers weren't capable of implementing those things.
If you make it SAFE, they will COME.
Oh? Teachers are the best judge of that? So they're not essential but they're omniscient? No wonder they're acting crazy lately.
If we as a society can provide a safe workplace, they will return.
The only crazies here are the ones pushing to open schools NOW regardless of safety.
1. Millions of us have been working the entire time, with not one safety measure in place, except for the masks and hand sanitizer that we provided ourselves.
2. No one is advocating for schools reopening without any safety measures. Please try opening up a newspaper and reading about what the Biden administration and the CDC are asking that schools do, before ranting.
Anonymous
01/29/2021 14:01
Subject: Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The respect for teachers have gone down tremendously after the pandemic. Before, we used to think it is noble profession and they care about teaching and students, blah blah blah. Some of the teacher may still care, but overall it is quite clear that they don't really care about teaching or students well being. Anytime you mention teaching in person, they revert back and tell you that they are not babysitters. The fact of the matter is that no one is expecting them to be babysitters, at least do the job for which you are getting paid which is teaching IN-PERSON.
I think gets to the root of the argument. Our social contract has a fundamental disconnect.
Teachers want to teach. They went into the profession focusing on the teaching. I’m sure they didn’t go into it just so they could watch kids all day.
Many working parents are happy to send their kids to school so they don’t have to pay for childcare anymore. There is an unstated social contract that schools provide childcare for X days/year.
Many teachers can teach via DL and while not ideal circumstances are doing their best to do what they signed up to do. Teach.
Working parents are now left with no childcare and are freaking out.
Teachers and working parents have fundamental differences in what school means to them.
Stay at home parents are also freaking out because their kids aren't getting an education, or at most only a fraction of an education.
Actually, the fundamental disconnect is that many of us thought of school buildings as essential parts of our community, bringing a diverse body of students, educators, families and community members together, not just in the pursuit of learning, but in the spirit of community. That's what school used to be for me.
Whether they are open or remain closed with virtual instruction to protect teacher health and safety, I'm fine with a reasoned decision. Unfortunately, all of you people who say that the move to reopen schools in some way by next fall is all about childcare have opened my eyes to the fact that my version of schools and their connection with community was an illusion. Apparently it is every family for itself, and few are about anyone but themselves. Why argue for health and safety, when you can judge and cut down struggling families and children.
I agree with you that these arguments have been disillusioning. But I think it's best that we forget the rancor and move forward, when schools have reopened. The fear, anxiety and depression by people in this area have made clear thinking and rational discussion nearly impossible.
Schools are a center of community, and soon we'll return to that.
Anonymous
01/29/2021 13:52
Subject: Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The respect for teachers have gone down tremendously after the pandemic. Before, we used to think it is noble profession and they care about teaching and students, blah blah blah. Some of the teacher may still care, but overall it is quite clear that they don't really care about teaching or students well being. Anytime you mention teaching in person, they revert back and tell you that they are not babysitters. The fact of the matter is that no one is expecting them to be babysitters, at least do the job for which you are getting paid which is teaching IN-PERSON.
I think gets to the root of the argument. Our social contract has a fundamental disconnect.
Teachers want to teach. They went into the profession focusing on the teaching. I’m sure they didn’t go into it just so they could watch kids all day.
Many working parents are happy to send their kids to school so they don’t have to pay for childcare anymore. There is an unstated social contract that schools provide childcare for X days/year.
Many teachers can teach via DL and while not ideal circumstances are doing their best to do what they signed up to do. Teach.
Working parents are now left with no childcare and are freaking out.
Teachers and working parents have fundamental differences in what school means to them.
Stay at home parents are also freaking out because their kids aren't getting an education, or at most only a fraction of an education.
Actually, the fundamental disconnect is that many of us thought of school buildings as essential parts of our community, bringing a diverse body of students, educators, families and community members together, not just in the pursuit of learning, but in the spirit of community. That's what school used to be for me.
Whether they are open or remain closed with virtual instruction to protect teacher health and safety, I'm fine with a reasoned decision. Unfortunately, all of you people who say that the move to reopen schools in some way by next fall is all about childcare have opened my eyes to the fact that my version of schools and their connection with community was an illusion. Apparently it is every family for itself, and few are about anyone but themselves. Why argue for health and safety, when you can judge and cut down struggling families and children.
Anonymous
01/29/2021 13:45
Subject: Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Stay at home parents are also freaking out because their kids aren't getting an education, or at most only a fraction of an education.
I think parents vastly overestimate the amount of instruction kids get in school. The majority of the time, students are working quietly on independent seat work while the classroom teachers has small groups for 15-20 min at a time with kids at a back table.
That may be true, but its more valuable and more is learned in those few hours.
Yes, especially for the youngest children, there is no comparison.
Anonymous
01/29/2021 13:42
Subject: Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Stay at home parents are also freaking out because their kids aren't getting an education, or at most only a fraction of an education.
I think parents vastly overestimate the amount of instruction kids get in school. The majority of the time, students are working quietly on independent seat work while the classroom teachers has small groups for 15-20 min at a time with kids at a back table.
I can see the work that my older child brought home when she was in 3rd grade. I can see the work that my younger child is doing now. It is a tiny fraction of the education that my older child received.
Anonymous
01/29/2021 13:41
Subject: Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Stay at home parents are also freaking out because their kids aren't getting an education, or at most only a fraction of an education.
I think parents vastly overestimate the amount of instruction kids get in school. The majority of the time, students are working quietly on independent seat work while the classroom teachers has small groups for 15-20 min at a time with kids at a back table.
That may be true, but its more valuable and more is learned in those few hours.
Anonymous
01/29/2021 13:40
Subject: Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:
Stay at home parents are also freaking out because their kids aren't getting an education, or at most only a fraction of an education.
I think parents vastly overestimate the amount of instruction kids get in school. The majority of the time, students are working quietly on independent seat work while the classroom teachers has small groups for 15-20 min at a time with kids at a back table.
Anonymous
01/29/2021 12:52
Subject: Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The respect for teachers have gone down tremendously after the pandemic. Before, we used to think it is noble profession and they care about teaching and students, blah blah blah. Some of the teacher may still care, but overall it is quite clear that they don't really care about teaching or students well being. Anytime you mention teaching in person, they revert back and tell you that they are not babysitters. The fact of the matter is that no one is expecting them to be babysitters, at least do the job for which you are getting paid which is teaching IN-PERSON.
I think gets to the root of the argument. Our social contract has a fundamental disconnect.
Teachers want to teach. They went into the profession focusing on the teaching. I’m sure they didn’t go into it just so they could watch kids all day.
Many working parents are happy to send their kids to school so they don’t have to pay for childcare anymore. There is an unstated social contract that schools provide childcare for X days/year.
Many teachers can teach via DL and while not ideal circumstances are doing their best to do what they signed up to do. Teach.
Working parents are now left with no childcare and are freaking out.
Teachers and working parents have fundamental differences in what school means to them.
Stay at home parents are also freaking out because their kids aren't getting an education, or at most only a fraction of an education.
Anonymous
01/29/2021 12:50
Subject: Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:The respect for teachers have gone down tremendously after the pandemic. Before, we used to think it is noble profession and they care about teaching and students, blah blah blah. Some of the teacher may still care, but overall it is quite clear that they don't really care about teaching or students well being. Anytime you mention teaching in person, they revert back and tell you that they are not babysitters. The fact of the matter is that no one is expecting them to be babysitters, at least do the job for which you are getting paid which is teaching IN-PERSON.
I think gets to the root of the argument. Our social contract has a fundamental disconnect.
Teachers want to teach. They went into the profession focusing on the teaching. I’m sure they didn’t go into it just so they could watch kids all day.
Many working parents are happy to send their kids to school so they don’t have to pay for childcare anymore. There is an unstated social contract that schools provide childcare for X days/year.
Many teachers can teach via DL and while not ideal circumstances are doing their best to do what they signed up to do. Teach.
Working parents are now left with no childcare and are freaking out.
Teachers and working parents have fundamental differences in what school means to them.
Anonymous
01/29/2021 12:49
Subject: Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Amen. They are acting like vital public servants in most areas of the country. Just not here for some reason.
And they are dying because of it. And their parts of the country don't care. And if you lived in those parts of the country, and your child or spouse dies of Covid, they won't care either. I know, I've lived there.
Yep, WaPo posted that 532 teachers did in 2019 because of COVID.
I assume you mean 2020.
I seriously doubt those 532 teachers caught Covid from students teaching at an open school.
Did you miss that in red states the schools have been open since the beginning of Fall semester?
I know people who have been teaching in GA and FL. Their states /parents just don't care. If someone dies, then that is God's will.
Anonymous
01/29/2021 12:48
Subject: Re:Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I really wish I could tell whether this article is wise advice or just another UMC professional working from home who is sick of having his children underfoot (I googled — he has two children). In this debate it is so hard to separate the message from the messenger. People are more than happy to embrace risk when it’s not a risk to them personally.
How is that parents aren't undertaking any risk? I hear this a lot. If their kids go to school and get COVID, there's a high chance they might pass it on to their parents. Parents are at risk. Interhousehold transmission is high.
I think your point is that parents are willing to take that risk because they will derive a clear and significant benefit from it -- namely a huge increase in the quality of education of their children.
Teachers are not willing to take the risk because there's no such benefit to them, other than general society benefit. It's just human nature than that really isn't a motivating force like personal benefit.
Exactly this. There's no upside for teachers to go to work.
Anonymous
01/29/2021 12:46
Subject: Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Amen. They are acting like vital public servants in most areas of the country. Just not here for some reason.
And they are dying because of it. And their parts of the country don't care. And if you lived in those parts of the country, and your child or spouse dies of Covid, they won't care either. I know, I've lived there.
Yep, WaPo posted that 532 teachers did in 2019 because of COVID.
I literally just read in today’s NYT school COVID newsletter that “There is no indication that teachers are being infected or dying at a higher rate than people in other professions. It is difficult to definitively say how the teachers who died contracted the virus.”
Anonymous
01/29/2021 12:46
Subject: Teachers are Vital Public Servants and Should Act Like It
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Once I accepted that parents didn’t care if I lived or died, it was incredibly freeing. My guilt about not being allowed to do more vanished. I’ve started to regain a work-life balance that I haven’t had since before I switched careers to public education.
High Risk DH is interviewing for a private sector firm tomorrow. It’s a friend’s company and he’s pretty much guaranteed WFH until August. He’s sad about leaving teaching because it was a beloved choice after a military career, but it’s pretty clear that it is 100% on us to protect our health and not leave our kids orphans.
Right there with you pp.
I assume that he is going to keep teaching until he's gotten vaccinated then quit.
Surely her DH will not take a Teacher Vaccine knowing he is quitting. He is way too high minded for that. He will wait his turn with everyone else.