Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no right to run a small business that ultimately relies on the state to subsidize your employees because the business doesn't generate enough profit. If you can't afford to pay employees minimum wage, then maybe you need a new business plan.

The state is changing the rules. People didn't write their business plan assuming a $15/hr minimum wage.

the state is free to do that. Right now those business are dependent on the state subsidizing their employees- the state is now forcing the employer to bear something closer to the actual cost

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Raising minimum wage is to help people out of poverty. If everyone else gets a "raise", it just continues the gap. What your wife makes has nothing to do with minimum wage increasing. Wow, just wow.

This is why some people don't want to raise the minimum wage - because it drives inflation. Everyone wants to make more and everything starts to cost more. I support increasing the minimum wage, but that's reality.

Drives inflation yeah no. Wages have not risen WITH inflation. This is just catch up but Republicans are apparently very good with their messaging. Keep bitchin about a HR admin making 65 instead of 42 but not the CEO who makes 20 million.

Anonymous wrote:There is no right to run a small business that ultimately relies on the state to subsidize your employees because the business doesn't generate enough profit. If you can't afford to pay employees minimum wage, then maybe you need a new business plan.

The state is changing the rules. People didn't write their business plan assuming a $15/hr minimum wage.

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s a valid question that someone with no higher education gets 15/hr that the hourly rate for those with degrees should make more. 15/hr to lift those out of poverty while working full time is long over due, but continuing to pay those with degrees and expansive experience a few bucks more is absurd. Zero reason a college graduate with a master should be making 25/hr.

Degrees are not the sole important resume builder.

So, let’s put aside level of education and just go by qualifications.

Qualifications get people various jobs. Highly qualified for something in demand makes people earn more.

If a qualification to do a minimum wage job is something like “follows direction” and “has good work ethic” then that’s $15/hr (yes I know there is more to it but this is just an example)

If a qualification is to have a degree in Business and 6 years sales experience, there are fewer people so they make more.

If I will pay you $15 an hour to come to a job that doesn’t put you in $100K debt to get, you’re more likely to not spend the $100K.

So, it is just a normal assumption that people will, over time, stop getting degrees in fields that $15/hr.

That will create a glut in the market if people with that qualification.

Those people will have to pay more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do realize that working at McDonalds is hard work, right? I'm sure it's much harder than admin work at a university.

So funny that you think the level of how hard something is drives how much salary it provides

Salary is supply and demand, like all other things. There are simply more people who have the skills to work at McDonalds willing to work for that wage. That’s why some fields have people with PhDs making less than people who never finished High School. It has nothing at all to do with how physically draining it is to perform the work.

So funny that you completely missed the point.

I don’t think I’m the one missing the point. Yours wasn’t so hard to grasp, it’s just really naive.

I think it’s a valid question that someone with no higher education gets 15/hr that the hourly rate for those with degrees should make more. 15/hr to lift those out of poverty while working full time is long over due, but continuing to pay those with degrees and expansive experience a few bucks more is absurd. Zero reason a college graduate with a master should be making 25/hr.

There is no right to run a small business that ultimately relies on the state to subsidize your employees because the business doesn't generate enough profit. If you can't afford to pay employees minimum wage, then maybe you need a new business plan.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure policy makers realize how devastating this can be for depressed cities, especially former industrial towns. I live in one and it declined majorly 20 years ago as factories shut down. Now they are building up again as distribution centers for online retailers (we have 5 major retailers doing it here so far) open up, as well as assembly plants for major automakers. What draws these new businesses here is that the wages here are low -- below $15/hour -- for entry-level, and we're near major interstates. However, our minimum wage is a good wage because cost of living is low here. Cost of living is easily half of in DC where we used to live.

If the minimum wage goes to $15/hr nationwide, then suddenly our town is no longer attractive to employers as being low-cost, and the jobs will start disappearing. There are a million towns also along the interstate where they can put their next warehouse.

If the goal is to make sure households earn enough to live, then we should index the minimum wage in that area to cost of living, or even better just adjust the earned income tax credit (EITC). The EITC takes into account total household income, particular since people may work more than one job, and also household size, like number of children at home.

I know $15/hr is a great soundbite, but I'm pretty sure it's going to leave towns like ours worse off.

+1, I’d much rather see a more generous EITC.

-1. I'm also from an economically depressed area, with a low COLA, and initially thought like you did. My hometown is among the Top 10 low-income cities. Then I looked up the studies that are by city, and show the actual cost of what you'd need to afford an apartment in various cities across the country. Even in my very hometown, you need $15/hour unless you are living with a 2-income household in a 1-bedroom or 2-bedroom apartment with no childcare costs. Those people taking the $11/hour jobs are only making it work because they are relying on food stamps, leaving their kids with random relatives (know someone back home who regularly left their preschoolers with cartoon network and a drunk aunt), etc. $15 is the number people use because the people have studied this have figured that it's basically what you need almost anyplace. I'm sort of sick of big companies making the rest of us subsidize their failure to pay workers a living wage while they pay their C-suite 8 figure salaries. Aren't you?

So... you need $15/hour to survive in your small town, and $15/hour to survive in high COL places in the DC area? I find it hard to believe, since housing eats up 30%+ of most peoples' income, and we know for sure that housing is more expensive in the DC area.

Also, about 50% of Americans work for small businesses so there are no fat-cat CEOs making millions for them. Where does the money come from? If I think in my area, the people I deal with -- the HVAC repair company, the butcher, my favorite sandwich place -- those are all owned by local people and are companies with < 20 employees. They're making a decent living but that's it. Yes, there is the Walmart in my area, and I do shop there some time, but a lot of my money goes to local companies. I fail to see how making them pay 30% more in wages will be fine for them and have no negative effect.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do realize that working at McDonalds is hard work, right? I'm sure it's much harder than admin work at a university.

So funny that you think the level of how hard something is drives how much salary it provides

Salary is supply and demand, like all other things. There are simply more people who have the skills to work at McDonalds willing to work for that wage. That’s why some fields have people with PhDs making less than people who never finished High School. It has nothing at all to do with how physically draining it is to perform the work.

So funny that you completely missed the point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP, but I was also thinking about this in regard to a proposed $15 minimum wage. A lot of people with degrees and experience are making between $40-50K. Why should they make that little when you can make 30K with zero experience?

Because the kind of jobs that pay minimum wage are usually hard work, and often unpleasant. If you'd rather scrub toilets or work retail than whatever you can do with your degree and/or experience, go for it!

Also, many minimum wage jobs DO require skills. And they are often quite necessary to the functioning of our economy, and society in general. All those people we were just valorizing as "essential workers," and suddenly they don't deserve a living wage?

not to mention they are rarely full time, so they require stringing together multiple jobs to get full time hours (but no benefits because you're just a part time employee with multiple employers). I seriously doubt anyone is going to quit a salaried job in academia to work retail at a couple of jobs and do grub hub deliveries when you don't get enough hours

Anonymous wrote:NP, but I was also thinking about this in regard to a proposed $15 minimum wage. A lot of people with degrees and experience are making between $40-50K. Why should they make that little when you can make 30K with zero experience?

Because the kind of jobs that pay minimum wage are usually hard work, and often unpleasant. If you'd rather scrub toilets or work retail than whatever you can do with your degree and/or experience, go for it!

Also, many minimum wage jobs DO require skills. And they are often quite necessary to the functioning of our economy, and society in general. All those people we were just valorizing as "essential workers," and suddenly they don't deserve a living wage?

Anonymous wrote:You do realize that working at McDonalds is hard work, right? I'm sure it's much harder than admin work at a university.

So funny that you think the level of how hard something is drives how much salary it provides

Salary is supply and demand, like all other things. There are simply more people who have the skills to work at McDonalds willing to work for that wage. That’s why some fields have people with PhDs making less than people who never finished High School. It has nothing at all to do with how physically draining it is to perform the work.

Did the trump trolls infiltrate this page? Minimum wage increases are heavily supported by most Americans, including a majority of dems and republicans. Economists are vastly in agreement that raising the wage won’t negatively increase employment, but will slightly raise the wages of those just above min wage. These are good things. If you don’t think these are good things, what’s wrong with you?

Most importantly, if you work 50 hours a week, and cannot afford basic things like rent and food, this is a problem. People who work 50 hours a week deserve good be able to afford a studio apartment and food. If you don’t think so, what’s wrong with you?

It’s especially a problem because the government is stepping in the pay the difference, so as to ensure these workers are not homeless an starving. It is absurd that Target will only pay $8 an hour, so the government and taxpayers have to throw in an extra $25k to these workers every year. This is a societal problem that needs a central government solution.

If an employer cannot afford to exist without a dollar for dollar subsidy on every dollar wage it pays, it seems that business model is pretty shitty. I’m not sure why society should pay corporate welfare to these businesses that are unable to stay afloat on their own.

And for those silly responses who say “I barely make more than your wife, I shouldn’t have bothered going to college!” Don’t be stupid. First, the increase in min wage is likely to overall improve the economy. You will consequently get better promotions or more opportunities to jump to a better paying job directly as a result of this. Second, economists are fairly confident that the increase in min wage will in fact cause an upward shift of lower wages - so yes, in fact you will get more money because of this. Thirdly, if you are so worried about min wage workers at Taco Bell chomping on your corporate heels, it seems you have not done a very good job of establishing your value as a worker.

I currently make about 2.5 times Op’s wife’s salary. If she gets a $20k raise should I get a $50k raise? If not why did I get my advanced degree and additional training and certifications? No, op, that’s not how this works.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure policy makers realize how devastating this can be for depressed cities, especially former industrial towns. I live in one and it declined majorly 20 years ago as factories shut down. Now they are building up again as distribution centers for online retailers (we have 5 major retailers doing it here so far) open up, as well as assembly plants for major automakers. What draws these new businesses here is that the wages here are low -- below $15/hour -- for entry-level, and we're near major interstates. However, our minimum wage is a good wage because cost of living is low here. Cost of living is easily half of in DC where we used to live.

If the minimum wage goes to $15/hr nationwide, then suddenly our town is no longer attractive to employers as being low-cost, and the jobs will start disappearing. There are a million towns also along the interstate where they can put their next warehouse.

If the goal is to make sure households earn enough to live, then we should index the minimum wage in that area to cost of living, or even better just adjust the earned income tax credit (EITC). The EITC takes into account total household income, particular since people may work more than one job, and also household size, like number of children at home.

I know $15/hr is a great soundbite, but I'm pretty sure it's going to leave towns like ours worse off.

+1, I’d much rather see a more generous EITC.

-1. I'm also from an economically depressed area, with a low COLA, and initially thought like you did. My hometown is among the Top 10 low-income cities. Then I looked up the studies that are by city, and show the actual cost of what you'd need to afford an apartment in various cities across the country. Even in my very hometown, you need $15/hour unless you are living with a 2-income household in a 1-bedroom or 2-bedroom apartment with no childcare costs. Those people taking the $11/hour jobs are only making it work because they are relying on food stamps, leaving their kids with random relatives (know someone back home who regularly left their preschoolers with cartoon network and a drunk aunt), etc. $15 is the number people use because the people have studied this have figured that it's basically what you need almost anyplace. I'm sort of sick of big companies making the rest of us subsidize their failure to pay workers a living wage while they pay their C-suite 8 figure salaries. Aren't you?