In the past, I feel like non-girly girls who were attracted to girls became butch lesbians. Now it seems that nobody is stopping there, but going straight to (haha) trans. That’s what’s cool now.. I am sad for lesbians, weirdly.

Anonymous wrote:I was discussing this with SIL the other day because 22 year old niece is “exploring non-binary” which I think means she is wearing more masculine clothes, and she would be okay using they/them pronouns but is also okay with she/her.

I think one thing that is different these days, and a PP touched on it above, is the labels! When I was young (long long ago) and shopped largely in the mens department because I was self conscious about my body and wanted less revealing clothes, I just liked to wear those clothes. Now I think there’s a lot of drive or push to say that means something, to give it some significance, and with that comes a label. Or maybe the label comes first, I’m not sure.

The focus on labeling seems to be rampant in this culture. Who you are is how you identify, what box you check, what label you have.

Because they live on social media which prompts them to enter labels.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ Can also listen to the podcast episodes on Apple podcasts or Spotify if more convenient. I found them very useful for getting a better understanding of what's going on, and the actual personal experiences of girls and parents who are also dealing with this.

I really Wanted to listen to this. Especially episode 41 with Michelle Evans. Then I saw she is a Republican in Texas. Nope.

Hey, I'm the PP who posted the podcast I find useful/informative.

I hadn't heard of Michelle Evans until your post- never listened to that episode. I've listened mainly to the episodes interviewing detransitioned young women and women who've formerly worked either in the sex industry or in activism.

This podcast doesn't adhere to rigid tribal lines where the host will only interview guests who think exactly like her in all matters of ideology/politics, so yes, I could see how that would be off-putting to someone doesn't want to hear from those with different viewpoints. I used to think more like you do, but then I realized my tribal groupthink was preventing me from forming/voicing/respecting my own questions and opinions on "forbidden" topics like gender ideology.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Trendy%20Lesbian

This is my daughter.

Anonymous wrote:^ Can also listen to the podcast episodes on Apple podcasts or Spotify if more convenient. I found them very useful for getting a better understanding of what's going on, and the actual personal experiences of girls and parents who are also dealing with this.

I really Wanted to listen to this. Especially episode 41 with Michelle Evans. Then I saw she is a Republican in Texas. Nope.

^ Can also listen to the podcast episodes on Apple podcasts or Spotify if more convenient. I found them very useful for getting a better understanding of what's going on, and the actual personal experiences of girls and parents who are also dealing with this.

There is a podcast/YT channel, Whose Body Is It, that goes into excellent detail about this issue that so many young girls (and boys, but the trend is particularly astronomical for girls) and their parents are experiencing.

Two episodes really stand out as relevant to parents who are dealing with this with their own daughter or in their daughter's peer group:

This interview with a mom who details her experience with extricating her middle-school-aged daughter from what she felt was a cult-like phenomenon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAVXWsVANLw (interview starts at 4 minutes 38 seconds).

This interview with a young woman who got introduced to gender ideology online at 16, transitioned at 17, and has since detransitioned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_p_Mx5ce1o

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a teen, I am seeing — what to call it? — a trend? A fad? A rash? of girls wanting to be known by male names and pronouns. I can’t say if they’re “transitioning” or not because I don’t really know the status of hormones or surgery or anything. But it’s happening quite suddenly. I am a “live and let live” type in general but I would be concerned if our generally welcoming community’s embrace of this will mean that girls make irreversible decisions based on momentary trends. I have seen absolutely no similar transitioning on the part of teen boys.

I remember being a less girly girl who was very uncomfortable with male attention. I solved it then by wearing short hair and non-revealing clothes. I’m concerned to see girls who think the only solution is a permanent gender change.

Agree 100%.

+1. This trend is particularly troubling when it is the only thing the child is latching on to- not school work, not sports or drama club, not family, not a hands on hobby. Just trans/bi, internet influencers, and new friend groups focused on the same gender changes.

My DD is falling hook, line and sinker for this. About to graduate and all the roomies she has found online for college next year are non binary. She thinks it’s so cool, so alternative. It is 100% a social contagion with girls. She has no interest in being intimate with another woman, but sometimes I think she craves friendship and is confusing the two. I sound awful to some, I know. My brother in law is gay and I could not be more supportive (he’s 50, old news) but at least I believe him. Someone, please tell me she’ll grow out of this? Sadly I hear it’s all the rage in college.

She'll probably hook up with a bunch of people in college, possibly some women or nonbinary people, and either realize that yeah she's not interested in that, or realize that yeah, she's super into that. Either way, she'll come home from school a couple of times a year, tell you you don't understand what she's going through and sleep a lot, go back to college, do a few more ill-advised relationships, graduate, get a job, and some time in her 20s or 30s settle down with someone and have kids. So just like all the nominally straight girls I knew in college in the 90s. FWIW my high school friend group was almost entirely queer. Two of them are married to men these days (both of whom identified as lesbian in high school), several are still lesbian or bi or queer (including me -- turns out I wasn't the token straight I thought I was as a teen), a few of us have kids, etc. Your daughter might (like me) be drawn to LGBTQ+ friends because there's something in her social experience that makes their experiences relatable, so she may grow into it rather than out of it. But she may also just think it's cool right now and grow out of it (like some of my friends did). She's a teen; they grow out of a lot of things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a teen, I am seeing — what to call it? — a trend? A fad? A rash? of girls wanting to be known by male names and pronouns. I can’t say if they’re “transitioning” or not because I don’t really know the status of hormones or surgery or anything. But it’s happening quite suddenly. I am a “live and let live” type in general but I would be concerned if our generally welcoming community’s embrace of this will mean that girls make irreversible decisions based on momentary trends. I have seen absolutely no similar transitioning on the part of teen boys.

I remember being a less girly girl who was very uncomfortable with male attention. I solved it then by wearing short hair and non-revealing clothes. I’m concerned to see girls who think the only solution is a permanent gender change.

Agree 100%.

+1. This trend is particularly troubling when it is the only thing the child is latching on to- not school work, not sports or drama club, not family, not a hands on hobby. Just trans/bi, internet influencers, and new friend groups focused on the same gender changes.

My DD is falling hook, line and sinker for this. About to graduate and all the roomies she has found online for college next year are non binary. She thinks it’s so cool, so alternative. It is 100% a social contagion with girls. She has no interest in being intimate with another woman, but sometimes I think she craves friendship and is confusing the two. I sound awful to some, I know. My brother in law is gay and I could not be more supportive (he’s 50, old news) but at least I believe him. Someone, please tell me she’ll grow out of this? Sadly I hear it’s all the rage in college.

Anonymous wrote:I'm just going to ask this here because I'm not sure who to ask in real life.

My 8th grade son has a couple of female friends who have identified as "bi." I totally understand it's possible that this is legit. But is it also possible that they are labeling themselves as bi to avoid attention from boys? 8th grade boys are ... not great. Is it possible they are crushing on pretty girls who are a hell of a lot more mature than the boys in their grade? And someday, will they unlabel themselves? I am honestly not judging, just curious. It seems like many junior high/early high school girls come out as bi, but hardly any boys.

I mean it might be but I'm curious how saying you're bi *deters* male attention? My experience is that men, especially young men, think bi is hot/code for sexually available whereas is indicates "unwilling to commit" to lesbians. Perhaps these prejudices haven't seeped down to the eighth grade boys, but I could better understand middle school girls trying to avoid unwanted male attention declaring themselves lebsian, nonbinary, asexual, etc instead of bi.

Anonymous wrote:I'm just going to ask this here because I'm not sure who to ask in real life.

My 8th grade son has a couple of female friends who have identified as "bi." I totally understand it's possible that this is legit. But is it also possible that they are labeling themselves as bi to avoid attention from boys? 8th grade boys are ... not great. Is it possible they are crushing on pretty girls who are a hell of a lot more mature than the boys in their grade? And someday, will they unlabel themselves? I am honestly not judging, just curious. It seems like many junior high/early high school girls come out as bi, but hardly any boys.

This is completely off-topic for this particular thread, but as a mom of an eight grade girl whose crowd is very much into labeling their anything-but-hetero preferences, I think this is indeed one factor. Of many.

Anonymous wrote:I'm just going to ask this here because I'm not sure who to ask in real life.

My 8th grade son has a couple of female friends who have identified as "bi." I totally understand it's possible that this is legit. But is it also possible that they are labeling themselves as bi to avoid attention from boys? 8th grade boys are ... not great. Is it possible they are crushing on pretty girls who are a hell of a lot more mature than the boys in their grade? And someday, will they unlabel themselves? I am honestly not judging, just curious. It seems like many junior high/early high school girls come out as bi, but hardly any boys.

The societal biases against boys’ identifying as anything other than straight are much, much stronger.

Anonymous wrote:The bigger conversation needs to include the misogyny pervasive in every aspect of our lives. We seem to think that because women seem to have every opportunity and things are more equal nowadays, that sexism and misogyny are a thing of the past. I believe it's as pernicious and damaging as ever.

I think that this definitely contributes to some of their feelings. My then 12 year old got a LOT of attention from grown men last year at the pool and it was just gross. Nothing super overt but definitely checking them out.

The bigger conversation needs to include the misogyny pervasive in every aspect of our lives. We seem to think that because women seem to have every opportunity and things are more equal nowadays, that sexism and misogyny are a thing of the past. I believe it's as pernicious and damaging as ever.

I'm just going to ask this here because I'm not sure who to ask in real life.

My 8th grade son has a couple of female friends who have identified as "bi." I totally understand it's possible that this is legit. But is it also possible that they are labeling themselves as bi to avoid attention from boys? 8th grade boys are ... not great. Is it possible they are crushing on pretty girls who are a hell of a lot more mature than the boys in their grade? And someday, will they unlabel themselves? I am honestly not judging, just curious. It seems like many junior high/early high school girls come out as bi, but hardly any boys.