Bob, Sheila, Alice and Dave are having a meeting.

Alice: "Bob, I would like to pass Project B to Sheila while I am on leave."
Bob: "No. She needs to concentrate on Project A. I will assign it to Dave."
Dave: "Happy to do it."
Sheila: Simmers in resentment because she was called "she" ???

Brother: "Where's mom?"
Sister: "She went down to the cellar."
Mom, yelling up from the cellar: "I am your Mother! Not a SHE! A 'she' is the cat's meow, or something, I don't remember, but I deserve respect, godammit!"
Brother and sister: WTH was that?? "Yes, Mother dear."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am actually beginning to find this really interesting. First off, it seems to have begun as a British thing, as not to be dismissive of women/mothers/female superiors. Then, in America, it was misunderstood and diluted to the point of nonsense. Who is she? The cat's mother? Who is she? The cat's pajamas? (as a pp said). The original intent of the rule was lost.

American moms, wanting position and perhaps with Mayflower pretensions, picked it up to demand respect in the face of the overall lack of power and agency. Who must respect? The children! Who am I? Not a SHE!

I grew up calling everyone Mr. and Mrs. so maybe never actually had the opportunity to unfortunately call a lady a SHE.

This is pure bs. Men know this and object to being referred to in 3rd person as well. I grew up in the south and everyone knew this. My fil who is the master of passive agressiveness does this intentionally to be insulting. I remember one of my first bosses schooling a young new hire during a meeting because he referred to him in 3rd person.

I don't know. This thread has a dozen or more examples of female she-queens, and your two examples of fussy old men.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard of this before. People get offended by the oddest things.

Yep.

I can not believe that so many adults here are unaware that it is rude to refer to a person in 3rd person when they are present. It is not hard to use a person's name. This is absolutely appalling that so many of you are defending this. The only people I know who do this are lower ses.

Op here. My mom grew up lower SES.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard of this before. People get offended by the oddest things.

Yep.

I can not believe that so many adults here are unaware that it is rude to refer to a person in 3rd person when they are present. It is not hard to use a person's name. This is absolutely appalling that so many of you are defending this. The only people I know who do this are lower ses.

Over and over again in the same story? Just keep using their name? No, that’s silly.

As one who has never heard of this, I wonder: does this apply to “he” as well? Or only “she”?

Anonymous wrote:I am actually beginning to find this really interesting. First off, it seems to have begun as a British thing, as not to be dismissive of women/mothers/female superiors. Then, in America, it was misunderstood and diluted to the point of nonsense. Who is she? The cat's mother? Who is she? The cat's pajamas? (as a pp said). The original intent of the rule was lost.

American moms, wanting position and perhaps with Mayflower pretensions, picked it up to demand respect in the face of the overall lack of power and agency. Who must respect? The children! Who am I? Not a SHE!

I grew up calling everyone Mr. and Mrs. so maybe never actually had the opportunity to unfortunately call a lady a SHE.

This is pure bs. Men know this and object to being referred to in 3rd person as well. I grew up in the south and everyone knew this. My fil who is the master of passive agressiveness does this intentionally to be insulting. I remember one of my first bosses schooling a young new hire during a meeting because he referred to him in 3rd person.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never heard of this before. People get offended by the oddest things.

Yep.

I can not believe that so many adults here are unaware that it is rude to refer to a person in 3rd person when they are present. It is not hard to use a person's name. This is absolutely appalling that so many of you are defending this. The only people I know who do this are lower ses.

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who have never heard of this, where did you grow up?

This was a common expectation of good manners among everyone I knew growing up in the Northeast.

Same for us, in the Midwest. Our Gramma, who was awesome, would tell us it was enormously disrespectful to refer to her or to our mom as “she” if they were within earshot (usually came up when we were complaining to others when we thought they couldn’t hear us about what chores “she” expected us to do). There was an exception in cases where we made it clear we properly terrified and were thinking of them as “She Who Must Be Obeyed” like in the H. Rider Haggard novel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who have never heard of this, where did you grow up?

This was a common expectation of good manners among everyone I knew growing up in the Northeast.

Op. My mom grew up in Detroit. Parents were immigrants from Italy and Poland. They were closer with the Polish side of the family, mostly Polish neighborhood, Catholic, Polish traditions.

I grew up in the lower Midwest.

I'd never thought of it as a cultural or geographical thing, might be. Interesting question.

Op again. MY MOM'S parents were immigrants, not mine.

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who have never heard of this, where did you grow up?

This was a common expectation of good manners among everyone I knew growing up in the Northeast.

Op. My mom grew up in Detroit. Parents were immigrants from Italy and Poland. They were closer with the Polish side of the family, mostly Polish neighborhood, Catholic, Polish traditions.

I grew up in the lower Midwest.

I'd never thought of it as a cultural or geographical thing, might be. Interesting question.

I have never heard of this but it makes absolute sense to me.

Anonymous wrote:Yup, I get it too. If SHE can hear you, then you should use her name instead of the pronoun.

I feel this way too. I think of it as a way to be precise and respectful with my language. Especially when a person is in the space.
But intend to always do it - If there is a noun that offers clarity, it feels more respectful.

I am actually beginning to find this really interesting. First off, it seems to have begun as a British thing, as not to be dismissive of women/mothers/female superiors. Then, in America, it was misunderstood and diluted to the point of nonsense. Who is she? The cat's mother? Who is she? The cat's pajamas? (as a pp said). The original intent of the rule was lost.

American moms, wanting position and perhaps with Mayflower pretensions, picked it up to demand respect in the face of the overall lack of power and agency. Who must respect? The children! Who am I? Not a SHE!

I grew up calling everyone Mr. and Mrs. so maybe never actually had the opportunity to unfortunately call a lady a SHE.

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who have never heard of this, where did you grow up?

This was a common expectation of good manners among everyone I knew growing up in the Northeast.

I also want to know! I have never heard of this. I grew up middle class in the DC suburbs. My parents were college educated. My dad is culturally Southern and my mom is from the Midwest with Northern European immigrant parents.

IF my mom had known this was a thing, she would definitely have exercised it. 100%. Tell her that it was good American manners, and that her children might be seen as disrespecting her, she would have been ON IT. This is her type of thing! "Mother, may I be excused from the table?" Etc.

I also had some super snobby Southern aunties, who were looking out to shame me for lack of manners, so I would have heard about it from them if it were a southern thing. So I want to know, who are these She-witches?

I’ve also never heard of this. Weird.