Anonymous
11/28/2020 17:07
Subject: I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
Sorry if someone already suggested this, but Eve Ensler’s “The Apology” might be interesting reading for you. Heard a review on NPR just an hour ago.
"Even if you can’t get that apology from your perpetrator, if you write a letter from his perspective to yourself, you can move the perpetrator who lives inside of you in another direction," says Eve Ensler.
"Even if you can’t get that apology from your perpetrator, if you write a letter from his perspective to yourself, you can move the perpetrator who lives inside of you in another direction," says Eve Ensler.
Anonymous
11/28/2020 16:46
Subject: I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Time and fully accepting that forgiveness is for yourself, not the other person.
'Resentment is like drinking poison and hoping it will kill your enemy.'
Agree with this. Forgiveness is not letting the other person off the hook, or accepting that what they did was ok. It's deciding that you don't need an apology, even though you deserve one. They are broken, and therefore inconsequential to you future days and happiness.
Right now you are still giving that other person all the power, OP. Why? Was this a romantic interest and you have a hope that somehow there can be reconciliation through a sincere enough apology? (I'm asking because I've been there. Spoiler alert: ythat is not going to happen.)
I’ve always heard it as “holding onto a grudge is like you drinking poison and hoping the other person dies”.
They both deliver the same premise OP, which is.... holding onto toxic negativity only hurts one person, the one doing the holding.
Anonymous
11/28/2020 16:17
Subject: Re:I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
Anonymous wrote:I'm the PP who had the girlfriend who hurt me and held onto that pain for years. I think there has been a lot of good advice on this thread, and the people who speak about forgiveness have a point though that was not my path.
Personally, I never officially "forgave" my friend in my mind. I just let her actions go from my life. Her actions were her choices. I cannot control what she did and I will never understand why she did what she did. I never thought about it as forgiveness or not...I just made the choice to no longer allow her real estate in my brain. That was what lifted the weight off of me.
At one point I googled my friend and found that she volunteered a lot in groups helping others. I was baffled because I remembered her as pretty self-centered. Maybe she changed? Did that mean I should rethink my reactions? I realized no. Even if she turned into Mother Teresa Part 2, I did not owe her any space in my brain. So I again, let that balloon go.
I think a PP that said the goal was indifference/irrelevance hit it on the head. I am indifferent to my former friend...she is just another person in the world. Whatever. I do think holding on to the pain/anger/reaction is what is unhealthy, even if you see it as a strength. Because holding on to the anger is giving her mental energy that A) she doesn't deserve and B) you can use in a more healthy and productive way.
Yes it's hard! That's probably why it took me 15 years to get past it. And honestly...I struggled with making friends all those years. Then after I finally let it all go, I found a great group of friends who are amazing and kind and funny. Coincidence? Maybe, or maybe I was finally open to friendship in a healthy way.
OP. Thank you. I do think I am a bit focused on the word "forgive" and what it means for me. I have also struggled with the public perception of the person who hurt me, and have even contemplating publicly revealing what they did because it sometimes makes me angry that they are viewed in such a positive way by many people when I know they are capable of some very dark behavior. But I like the way you are framing it here. Thanks again.
Anonymous
11/28/2020 16:15
Subject: I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
Anonymous wrote:As a black woman with a pained past of direcr and indirect, personal and social misfortune/abuse - and even micro aggressions still occurring today — in my experience and that of most others who are at the point of not being ruffled when thinking about it; you have to learn to condemn that person, hate the behaviour, understand how it impacted you, and work to protect yourself against it again, without personally holding on to the pain they caused. How you do that can vary. It isn’t easy. But you asked how to move on and that is the only way.
And yeah, it sucks. But that is how you do it. The best revenge is becoming better after someone attempts to destroy or hurt you. It sounds like a trope to dismiss, but it is true. I say this as a person who has experienced a lot of “injustice” for reprehensible acts.
I am abhorred by rape, abuse, torture, interference with someone’s success. Ive worked for people that ripped apart everything I did to rebuild it and take the credit. I’ve been wronged by humans and at one point felt wronged by God when he took my child. Forgiveness doesn’t mean I accept the past or make peace with it. It means I actively stop engaging in thoughts that take me off course, I can responding emotionally without subconsciously letting those feelings prioritize my behavior; it means I have the ability to give myself a choice. It doesn’t mean I’m letting those people odd the hook. They are still on the hook, but I get down off of the hook with them.
For me, forgiveness had a gradual growth and replaced resentment. My pain created introspection and my ability to untangle from the personal injustice allowed me to look at the situation from the outside in. I acknowledged being a victim, but not any longer. I could listen to songs without being triggered. I wasn’t afraid to have faith anymore or hope. It meant being reminded or thinking about it could still make me angry, but I had it compartmentalized in a way where it did not impact other areas od my mind, heart, or spirit. It meant not being depressed, or not sabotaging future opportunities because of the difficulty in having g courage after mistreatment. That is all really, really hard to do.
My cognitive decision shapes my behaviour and I am respectful of my pain when it appears. I address it in a safe space.. When you can think about it, talk about, feel your anger but still stay in your peace? You have forgiven. It’s about you. Not them. It doesn’t mean you aren’t vigilant, or things are fair. It means the wound they caused closes and doesn’t remain open to infection.
With this in mind, maybe you have already started to forgive without realizing it. Getting off of their hook looks different for everyone. For me, it meant I trusted God with a prayer after devastation. It took a lonnnnnng time.
I’m sorry about your pain. I hope you find a path to healing or moving on in the best way for you. You have every right to proceed how you want without forgiving. But that is the way that you move on (which is what you specifically asked) and live your best life.
Thanks for being so willing to share and also confident in your needs and reasoning. I respect that. Others will too for sure. Joust be careful of motivations that are empowering or a catalyst for change in you or the circumstances that created your problem, and not using hate as motivation to create your own injustice.
OP here. Wow, thank you for breaking this down in this way. I am going to re-read and think on this one for a while. Some of it is challenging me, but in a way that I think is probably good for me. Thank you for taking the time to share it.
Anonymous
11/28/2020 16:09
Subject: Re:I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
I'm the PP who had the girlfriend who hurt me and held onto that pain for years. I think there has been a lot of good advice on this thread, and the people who speak about forgiveness have a point though that was not my path.
Personally, I never officially "forgave" my friend in my mind. I just let her actions go from my life. Her actions were her choices. I cannot control what she did and I will never understand why she did what she did. I never thought about it as forgiveness or not...I just made the choice to no longer allow her real estate in my brain. That was what lifted the weight off of me.
At one point I googled my friend and found that she volunteered a lot in groups helping others. I was baffled because I remembered her as pretty self-centered. Maybe she changed? Did that mean I should rethink my reactions? I realized no. Even if she turned into Mother Teresa Part 2, I did not owe her any space in my brain. So I again, let that balloon go.
I think a PP that said the goal was indifference/irrelevance hit it on the head. I am indifferent to my former friend...she is just another person in the world. Whatever. I do think holding on to the pain/anger/reaction is what is unhealthy, even if you see it as a strength. Because holding on to the anger is giving her mental energy that A) she doesn't deserve and B) you can use in a more healthy and productive way.
Yes it's hard! That's probably why it took me 15 years to get past it. And honestly...I struggled with making friends all those years. Then after I finally let it all go, I found a great group of friends who are amazing and kind and funny. Coincidence? Maybe, or maybe I was finally open to friendship in a healthy way.
Personally, I never officially "forgave" my friend in my mind. I just let her actions go from my life. Her actions were her choices. I cannot control what she did and I will never understand why she did what she did. I never thought about it as forgiveness or not...I just made the choice to no longer allow her real estate in my brain. That was what lifted the weight off of me.
At one point I googled my friend and found that she volunteered a lot in groups helping others. I was baffled because I remembered her as pretty self-centered. Maybe she changed? Did that mean I should rethink my reactions? I realized no. Even if she turned into Mother Teresa Part 2, I did not owe her any space in my brain. So I again, let that balloon go.
I think a PP that said the goal was indifference/irrelevance hit it on the head. I am indifferent to my former friend...she is just another person in the world. Whatever. I do think holding on to the pain/anger/reaction is what is unhealthy, even if you see it as a strength. Because holding on to the anger is giving her mental energy that A) she doesn't deserve and B) you can use in a more healthy and productive way.
Yes it's hard! That's probably why it took me 15 years to get past it. And honestly...I struggled with making friends all those years. Then after I finally let it all go, I found a great group of friends who are amazing and kind and funny. Coincidence? Maybe, or maybe I was finally open to friendship in a healthy way.
Anonymous
11/28/2020 15:33
Subject: Re:I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
The word forgiveness is loaded for OP. OP, maybe your goal should simply be to make them irrelevant. Like dropping dye in a glass of water. Right now that glass is blue, but as life marches on and you keep adding water to your glass, the blue will fade and fade. It's always going to be there, it just won't color everything.
Anonymous
11/28/2020 14:49
Subject: I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
As a black woman with a pained past of direcr and indirect, personal and social misfortune/abuse - and even micro aggressions still occurring today — in my experience and that of most others who are at the point of not being ruffled when thinking about it; you have to learn to condemn that person, hate the behaviour, understand how it impacted you, and work to protect yourself against it again, without personally holding on to the pain they caused. How you do that can vary. It isn’t easy. But you asked how to move on and that is the only way.
And yeah, it sucks. But that is how you do it. The best revenge is becoming better after someone attempts to destroy or hurt you. It sounds like a trope to dismiss, but it is true. I say this as a person who has experienced a lot of “injustice” for reprehensible acts.
I am abhorred by rape, abuse, torture, interference with someone’s success. Ive worked for people that ripped apart everything I did to rebuild it and take the credit. I’ve been wronged by humans and at one point felt wronged by God when he took my child. Forgiveness doesn’t mean I accept the past or make peace with it. It means I actively stop engaging in thoughts that take me off course, I can responding emotionally without subconsciously letting those feelings prioritize my behavior; it means I have the ability to give myself a choice. It doesn’t mean I’m letting those people odd the hook. They are still on the hook, but I get down off of the hook with them.
For me, forgiveness had a gradual growth and replaced resentment. My pain created introspection and my ability to untangle from the personal injustice allowed me to look at the situation from the outside in. I acknowledged being a victim, but not any longer. I could listen to songs without being triggered. I wasn’t afraid to have faith anymore or hope. It meant being reminded or thinking about it could still make me angry, but I had it compartmentalized in a way where it did not impact other areas od my mind, heart, or spirit. It meant not being depressed, or not sabotaging future opportunities because of the difficulty in having g courage after mistreatment. That is all really, really hard to do.
My cognitive decision shapes my behaviour and I am respectful of my pain when it appears. I address it in a safe space.. When you can think about it, talk about, feel your anger but still stay in your peace? You have forgiven. It’s about you. Not them. It doesn’t mean you aren’t vigilant, or things are fair. It means the wound they caused closes and doesn’t remain open to infection.
With this in mind, maybe you have already started to forgive without realizing it. Getting off of their hook looks different for everyone. For me, it meant I trusted God with a prayer after devastation. It took a lonnnnnng time.
I’m sorry about your pain. I hope you find a path to healing or moving on in the best way for you. You have every right to proceed how you want without forgiving. But that is the way that you move on (which is what you specifically asked) and live your best life.
Thanks for being so willing to share and also confident in your needs and reasoning. I respect that. Others will too for sure. Joust be careful of motivations that are empowering or a catalyst for change in you or the circumstances that created your problem, and not using hate as motivation to create your own injustice.
And yeah, it sucks. But that is how you do it. The best revenge is becoming better after someone attempts to destroy or hurt you. It sounds like a trope to dismiss, but it is true. I say this as a person who has experienced a lot of “injustice” for reprehensible acts.
I am abhorred by rape, abuse, torture, interference with someone’s success. Ive worked for people that ripped apart everything I did to rebuild it and take the credit. I’ve been wronged by humans and at one point felt wronged by God when he took my child. Forgiveness doesn’t mean I accept the past or make peace with it. It means I actively stop engaging in thoughts that take me off course, I can responding emotionally without subconsciously letting those feelings prioritize my behavior; it means I have the ability to give myself a choice. It doesn’t mean I’m letting those people odd the hook. They are still on the hook, but I get down off of the hook with them.
For me, forgiveness had a gradual growth and replaced resentment. My pain created introspection and my ability to untangle from the personal injustice allowed me to look at the situation from the outside in. I acknowledged being a victim, but not any longer. I could listen to songs without being triggered. I wasn’t afraid to have faith anymore or hope. It meant being reminded or thinking about it could still make me angry, but I had it compartmentalized in a way where it did not impact other areas od my mind, heart, or spirit. It meant not being depressed, or not sabotaging future opportunities because of the difficulty in having g courage after mistreatment. That is all really, really hard to do.
My cognitive decision shapes my behaviour and I am respectful of my pain when it appears. I address it in a safe space.. When you can think about it, talk about, feel your anger but still stay in your peace? You have forgiven. It’s about you. Not them. It doesn’t mean you aren’t vigilant, or things are fair. It means the wound they caused closes and doesn’t remain open to infection.
With this in mind, maybe you have already started to forgive without realizing it. Getting off of their hook looks different for everyone. For me, it meant I trusted God with a prayer after devastation. It took a lonnnnnng time.
I’m sorry about your pain. I hope you find a path to healing or moving on in the best way for you. You have every right to proceed how you want without forgiving. But that is the way that you move on (which is what you specifically asked) and live your best life.
Thanks for being so willing to share and also confident in your needs and reasoning. I respect that. Others will too for sure. Joust be careful of motivations that are empowering or a catalyst for change in you or the circumstances that created your problem, and not using hate as motivation to create your own injustice.
Anonymous
11/28/2020 14:28
Subject: Re:I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
I’m with you on the whole forgiveness rap, OP. It’s way too soon. As long as a situation is actively hurting, forgiveness is not possible.
I think we’re suffering as a society from only accepting our happy, “good” emotions and thinking something needs to be fixed if we have angry, conflicted or “negative” emotions. The whole point of mindfulness is to feel where you are without judgement.
Anger and hatred can be motivating. And they will burn themselves out.
I think we’re suffering as a society from only accepting our happy, “good” emotions and thinking something needs to be fixed if we have angry, conflicted or “negative” emotions. The whole point of mindfulness is to feel where you are without judgement.
Anger and hatred can be motivating. And they will burn themselves out.
Anonymous
11/28/2020 14:23
Subject: Re:I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
Anonymous wrote:Well, I deserve to be named Queen of the World. I'll never get it. How do I move on?
OP, my problem is much more pressing. I don't mean to hijack your thread but still...move your trivial complaint out of the way so we can focus on my much more serious issue.
Don’t try to be clever, PP, as it’s clearly beyond your intelligence. You’re just embarrassing yourself.
Anonymous
11/28/2020 14:02
Subject: Re:I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
Well, I deserve to be named Queen of the World. I'll never get it. How do I move on?
OP, my problem is much more pressing. I don't mean to hijack your thread but still...move your trivial complaint out of the way so we can focus on my much more serious issue.
OP, my problem is much more pressing. I don't mean to hijack your thread but still...move your trivial complaint out of the way so we can focus on my much more serious issue.
Anonymous
11/28/2020 13:31
Subject: Re:I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
OP here. Once again, thank you all for the kind words. It is heartening to know I’m not the only one who struggles with this.
Regarding forgiveness, I wanted to take a moment to explain my feelings on the matter, because I see it still be suggested as the only way to move on.
I do feel that forgiveness is a productive way to move on from a lot of kinds of harm. For instance, forgiving my parents for mistakes they made when they were young parents has been essential to my wellbeing. Forgiving my parents, who I know love me despite their mistakes, has allowed me to forge my own path as a parent. Forgiveness can liberating.
However, there are some things for which I do not think it is possible to forgive unless the person who committed the harm is accountable. I’m not going to get into what happened in my life, but some examples in this category would be: physical violence and/or sexual violations, acts of racism or misogyny (so not just thinking but overt acts), socially destructive actions such as spreading lies about a person’s character or past.
I understand why people say that forgiveness is something you do for yourself. But I think there are limits to that, and when a harmful act is particularly malicious or harmful, the act of forgiveness is too much to ask if the person harmed. It requires accepting some profound inequality in the world, or to accept a level of powerlessness with regards to a person who has abused you. I think, as a society, it is cruel to expect people harmed in this way to forgive. We should expend a lot more energy on asking people who commit this kind of harm to not only apologize but to make amends.
So that’s why I’ll never forgive the person who hurt me, and why I now disregard the advice that I should.
Regarding forgiveness, I wanted to take a moment to explain my feelings on the matter, because I see it still be suggested as the only way to move on.
I do feel that forgiveness is a productive way to move on from a lot of kinds of harm. For instance, forgiving my parents for mistakes they made when they were young parents has been essential to my wellbeing. Forgiving my parents, who I know love me despite their mistakes, has allowed me to forge my own path as a parent. Forgiveness can liberating.
However, there are some things for which I do not think it is possible to forgive unless the person who committed the harm is accountable. I’m not going to get into what happened in my life, but some examples in this category would be: physical violence and/or sexual violations, acts of racism or misogyny (so not just thinking but overt acts), socially destructive actions such as spreading lies about a person’s character or past.
I understand why people say that forgiveness is something you do for yourself. But I think there are limits to that, and when a harmful act is particularly malicious or harmful, the act of forgiveness is too much to ask if the person harmed. It requires accepting some profound inequality in the world, or to accept a level of powerlessness with regards to a person who has abused you. I think, as a society, it is cruel to expect people harmed in this way to forgive. We should expend a lot more energy on asking people who commit this kind of harm to not only apologize but to make amends.
So that’s why I’ll never forgive the person who hurt me, and why I now disregard the advice that I should.
Anonymous
11/27/2020 19:15
Subject: Re:I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Not a love interest, and I have absolutely no expectation or desire to have future interaction with this person. Unless you count the fantasies I have of winning an award and bumping into them as I leave the ceremony looking fabulous and filled with joy and accomplishment. But no.
And while I get and have received the advice about forgiveness before, I’m just being honest: I will not forgive someone who has evaded accountability. Consider it a religious belief.
I just want to stop thinking about it. I want to stop feeling angry and hurt. Without forgiving them.
You’re not listening. You feel angry & hurt because you haven’t forgiven. Forgiving and forgetting are two different things. You don’t have to think they’re a good person; you just have to let go of your anger, because it’s only hurting you. You are letting this person have power over your life that they don’t deserve.
I know of what I speak.
+1
Think of forgiveness in terms of a financial debt: if someone borrows money, they owe you. But you can decide that you are no longer going to try to collect that debt. It doesn't mean that they never owed you money, or that they were right not to repay you. It means you accept that you're not getting that money back, and erase it from your mental ledger. It doesn't mean you loan them money again, or even like them anymore, or spend time with them, or trust them. It means you stop counting that debt.
If you want to stop thinking about it, and feeling angry and hurt, you have to forgive them. The alternative is that part of you is always waiting for them to repay you, which means you are always hanging on to the debt. "Forgiveness is giving up all hope of having had a better past." You have to stop holding it against them, because that means you're holding onto it.
This is such a great symbol, PP. I like that.
Anonymous
11/27/2020 18:04
Subject: Re:I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. This Thanksgiving, I'm grateful to everyone who took the time to respond so kindly to my thread. Even the people who are insisting that I find a way to forgive, which, to be clear, I will never, ever do. But I know your advice comes from a good place of wanting there to be less pain and sadness in the world. So thank you.
I hope you all have joy and peace in some measure today. Everyone deserves that. Except the person who harmed me -- I hope they are miserable and thinking about what a disgusting person they are. But everyone else: Happy Thanksgiving!
Ha. I spent my whole run outside today sending deep thoughts of harm and misfortune to a b@tch that harmed me and my family and took zero responsibility for it. She’s so delusional she tried to flip it on me.
I hope her remaining years on earth are a living hell before she suffers a slow, excruciatingly painful death and then rots in real hell.
You are wasting your own energy and harmful thoughts will eat you inside which only harms yourself.
Anonymous
11/27/2020 17:48
Subject: Re:I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. This Thanksgiving, I'm grateful to everyone who took the time to respond so kindly to my thread. Even the people who are insisting that I find a way to forgive, which, to be clear, I will never, ever do. But I know your advice comes from a good place of wanting there to be less pain and sadness in the world. So thank you.
I hope you all have joy and peace in some measure today. Everyone deserves that. Except the person who harmed me -- I hope they are miserable and thinking about what a disgusting person they are. But everyone else: Happy Thanksgiving!
Ha. I spent my whole run outside today sending deep thoughts of harm and misfortune to a b@tch that harmed me and my family and took zero responsibility for it. She’s so delusional she tried to flip it on me.
I hope her remaining years on earth are a living hell before she suffers a slow, excruciatingly painful death and then rots in real hell.
I hope hers are as well.
Anonymous
11/27/2020 17:46
Subject: I deserve an apology. I’ll never get it. How do I move on?
Anonymous wrote:I know this holiday is about feeling grateful. And I am. But I’m also mad. A person hurt me in a really terrible, grotesque way. They know they did it, and they know it was wrong. But they have not apologized, and I feel confident they never will.
How do I move on? They aren’t in my life anymore, but they are at its fringes (live and work not far away). I have so much love and joy in my life, but I still think about what they did nearly every day.
How do I move on? I don’t want to forgive them (I’m not a martyr and I don’t want to forgive someone who has never and will never hold themselves accountable). Will I ever get to a point where I don’t think about this? Will I ever feel peace? And if so, how?
What I’ve done so far: therapy (still at it), meditation, taking occasional solo drives so I can scream at the top of my lungs.
What am I missing?
Forgiveness. Forgiveness is for you, not the other person. It is your way to freedom. Does it mean what they did was okay? No, it releases you from bondage by laying down your desire for revenge. You can’t control another person. Think who you want to be as a person and then be that person.