Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've got one of those rare marriages where my husband actually does half, it's amazing, and I feel awful for everyone else. You truly have my sympathies. Especially those who had husbands who seemed to be doing their half before marriage/kids and then it all fell apart. Totally sucks.

That said:

1) I would not put up with it. Do your half or I'm out. It's not something I would learn to live with.

2) I also knew when dating that this is a big issue, so I was looking for someone who would do this, and we had LOTS of conversations about it while dating, engaged, newlywed, and pregnant.

3) There is an element of giving up control that you need to accept to have this marriage. My husband is in charge of all baby food. He does NOT do it the way I would - not as many veggies. Everything is store bought Gerber. He's introduced foods a bit willy-nilly, without following a plan or anything. But I don't say a damn word. Because it's done, it's great, and I literally just feed my kid what my husband puts on the counter for me. I never even think about it. That's a win.

You have zero idea of the bolded is true. Zero. Divorce with children is a big, big deal, and it’s so much easier to say what you’d do when you’ve never faced this situation. I’m not even in a position where I’m considering it, but I have enough friends who have to see up close that it’s nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be.

Point two: plenty of people discuss this stuff during dating, and then things change once they have kids. People get sick, or have a kid who activates certain tendencies, or just find it a hell of a lot more stressful than they anticipated. You can talk beforehand until you’re blue in the face; if you haven’t had to deal with things changing in the moment, have some empathy for those who have.

Point three, sure.

+2

Hi, I'm the poster who put the three points above, which I noticed have caused a lot of great discussion on this thread, which is great!

I want to address some of your counter points. Yes, I know that plenty of people talk about this stuff and then they have kids and things change, and I have tons of empathy for them. In fact, that's what I lead with in my comment - that I absolutely feel for people who are in this position, it must be so, so difficult.

As far as splitting up - I'm aware that it's very difficult. My parents divorced when I was a child. Obviously I can't know for sure how I would behave in a certain situation (no one can see around corners), I still believe that I would choose to end the marriage. Note that I'm saying that I would do that - not that I'm telling people in these situations that's what THEY should do - everyone is doing the best with what they've got. And in no way do I think divorce is easy or simple. However, I know myself pretty well, and my limitations, and I know that I react very poorly to being taken advantage of, and I know that resentment absolutely corrodes a marriage, and I am pretty confident I would choose divorce if I was in this position.

Absolutely no judgement whatsoever on others who opt for another path. It must be an absolutely incredibly difficult position to be in.

Oh, and the PP who said "you'd divorce over emotional labor?" is wrong - it's not just emotional labor, it's physical labor (as someone else pointed out) and it's actually more than that - it's disrespect, dismissiveness, and a lack of true partnership. Of knowing that someone else has your back. That's what would do it for me.

I'm one of the PPs who responded to you (the Point three, sure PP), and here's the thing. You describe your marriage as "amazing" and say that you "feel awful for everyone else." Why? Do you presume that everyone else who doesn't have a spouse who contributes exactly half is in a god-awful marriage to someone who contributes nothing? I mean, at what division of labor would you choose divorce? What if your husband did roughly 40% of the labor? Or 30%?

I understand that your intentions are good. But, please, dial back the pity. It's not supportive or empathic, and it doesn't move anything forward.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've got one of those rare marriages where my husband actually does half, it's amazing, and I feel awful for everyone else. You truly have my sympathies. Especially those who had husbands who seemed to be doing their half before marriage/kids and then it all fell apart. Totally sucks.

That said:

1) I would not put up with it. Do your half or I'm out. It's not something I would learn to live with.

2) I also knew when dating that this is a big issue, so I was looking for someone who would do this, and we had LOTS of conversations about it while dating, engaged, newlywed, and pregnant.

3) There is an element of giving up control that you need to accept to have this marriage. My husband is in charge of all baby food. He does NOT do it the way I would - not as many veggies. Everything is store bought Gerber. He's introduced foods a bit willy-nilly, without following a plan or anything. But I don't say a damn word. Because it's done, it's great, and I literally just feed my kid what my husband puts on the counter for me. I never even think about it. That's a win.

You have zero idea of the bolded is true. Zero. Divorce with children is a big, big deal, and it’s so much easier to say what you’d do when you’ve never faced this situation. I’m not even in a position where I’m considering it, but I have enough friends who have to see up close that it’s nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be.

Point two: plenty of people discuss this stuff during dating, and then things change once they have kids. People get sick, or have a kid who activates certain tendencies, or just find it a hell of a lot more stressful than they anticipated. You can talk beforehand until you’re blue in the face; if you haven’t had to deal with things changing in the moment, have some empathy for those who have.

Point three, sure.

+2

Hi, I'm the poster who put the three points above, which I noticed have caused a lot of great discussion on this thread, which is great!

I want to address some of your counter points. Yes, I know that plenty of people talk about this stuff and then they have kids and things change, and I have tons of empathy for them. In fact, that's what I lead with in my comment - that I absolutely feel for people who are in this position, it must be so, so difficult.

As far as splitting up - I'm aware that it's very difficult. My parents divorced when I was a child. Obviously I can't know for sure how I would behave in a certain situation (no one can see around corners), I still believe that I would choose to end the marriage. Note that I'm saying that I would do that - not that I'm telling people in these situations that's what THEY should do - everyone is doing the best with what they've got. And in no way do I think divorce is easy or simple. However, I know myself pretty well, and my limitations, and I know that I react very poorly to being taken advantage of, and I know that resentment absolutely corrodes a marriage, and I am pretty confident I would choose divorce if I was in this position.

Absolutely no judgement whatsoever on others who opt for another path. It must be an absolutely incredibly difficult position to be in.

Oh, and the PP who said "you'd divorce over emotional labor?" is wrong - it's not just emotional labor, it's physical labor (as someone else pointed out) and it's actually more than that - it's disrespect, dismissiveness, and a lack of true partnership. Of knowing that someone else has your back. That's what would do it for me.

I'm one of the PPs who responded to you (the Point three, sure PP), and here's the thing. You describe your marriage as "amazing" and say that you "feel awful for everyone else." Why? Do you presume that everyone else who doesn't have a spouse who contributes exactly half is in a god-awful marriage to someone who contributes nothing? I mean, at what division of labor would you choose divorce? What if your husband did roughly 40% of the labor? Or 30%?

I understand that your intentions are good. But, please, dial back the pity. It's not supportive or empathic, and it doesn't move anything forward.

PP again. Your first comment to me admonished me for not having empathy and now you're saying I should dial back the pity. It seems like you're requesting a very, very specific emotional response here from me, via message board, which is a very high bar. I'm saying I feel for people whose husbands don't carry their weight, and that must be hard. I'm not sure what more you're asking from me on this.

Obviously, given the topic, when I said I "feel awful for everyone else" I mean the people whose spouses (most often husbands, although not exclusively) are not pulling their weight, and who are left to deal with vast majority of the domestic load with very little support. As far as the "why" - it really contributes to my quality of my life that I only do half the cleaning. And that I don't cook a thing, but still get to enjoy delicious home cooked meals. And that I only do half the childcare. I have time for myself. I get enough sleep. I have hobbies. I'm comfortable planning to have a bigger family (as both my husband and I want) knowing I don't have to work myself to the bone to keep it running. I try to be aware of my good fortune, so yes, I do feel for others who wished their marriages were more egalitarian, but are stuck, for whatever reason, doing nearly all the cooking, cleaning, laundry and childcare. Which is the whole theme of this thread - that working women are getting the shaft, particularly right now, and I'm agreeing - that sucks! I also know that when something in my life isn't going well, I find it comforting when other people who aren't experiencing that negative thing, say "damn, I see that you're struggling, and that really sucks, I feel for you." So, there's an element of the Golden Rule in my reaction.

I don't at all assume that all marriages where one spouse is doing the majority of the domestic work are miserable - some, I'm sure, are great! Particularly if one spouse brings in more money and works more hours, it makes sense for one person to take on the majority of the household stuff. And some people like, or at least don't mind, housework. Maybe there's an energy/health imbalance. And there's a million other factors - maybe your spouse doesn't carry the domestic load, but has a million other qualities that you adore, and so you're fine with it. More power to you!

As far as the division (50/50 vs 40/60 vs 70/30) - I think that a lot of other factors come in here. To me, the biggest thing would be, no matter exactly what the degree of the imbalance is, how my husband reacted when I brought it up. If I'm doing 60% of the work, and I bring it up, and my husband were to say "I see what you're doing, you're right, you are doing more, but I just feel so overwhelmed right now, and I don't know what to do, it feels impossible!" or something, well, jeez, I'd probably bump that up to 65 or 70% and ask if he needed something else from me! If I bring it up and he gas lights me, or blows me off, or says "yeah, yeah I'll do better" and then nothing happens, or acts weird and passive aggressive about it, just clearly doesn't care, is fine having me stressed and overwhelmed while he plays video games and sleeps late, well, that's a different story.

Brings me back to my earlier point - it's about a partnership, and knowing your spouse has your back, more than it's about minutes of housework.

Anyway - I've answered your questions as written, and I hope I've clarified some things. But I have to ask - it seems like you're responding really defensively to me generally. It feels like maybe I hit a nerve, perhaps with the statement that I would divorce in a situation where my husband didn't do his half. Are you in a situation where your spouse doesn't contribute at home? If you are, and you've opted not to divorce, I'm sure that's the right call for you. We're all doing the best we can in life, and we all make our trade offs. I'm just spitballing here - maybe I'm way off the mark. But I'm curious to know why my stance bothers you so much?

I know DCUM isn't always a supportive place (hahahahahaha understatement) but I try to be a supportive person, so try me. And maybe that will move something forward

Anonymous wrote:Women always vastly over report how much they contribute in these ridiculous surveys. The studies on this never have objective 3rd parties that actually measure how much each spouse contributes.

Go ahead and ask my wife who does the majority of his work. She'll adamantly claim she does most of it, and will hardly give credit for me taking care of the yard, taking care of home repair, taking care of car maintenance, taking out the trash, cooking, emptying and loading the dish washer, vacuuming, mopping the floors, taking care of all of the finances and insurance issues, and taking care of all pet work.


Most of these stupid surveys measure things like 'amount of time spent'. Sure, my wife does the laundry because she doesn't want anyone touching her clothes, but half the time she's watching Netflix while waiting for the wash and dry cycles to complete. You can't do that while mowing a large lawn. Spending 2 hours mowing the lawn is much more work than 3-4 hours of doing laundry where you just wait around half the time while watching TV. You also hardly ever have to take time off work to do house chores, which is often not the case when you have to do car maintenance and schedule mechanic repairs for all of the cars. Why is it that I always have to use vacation time and have work pile up at work when cars have to get fixed? Women should start going to the grease monkeys for family car repairs instead.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've got one of those rare marriages where my husband actually does half, it's amazing, and I feel awful for everyone else. You truly have my sympathies. Especially those who had husbands who seemed to be doing their half before marriage/kids and then it all fell apart. Totally sucks.

That said:

1) I would not put up with it. Do your half or I'm out. It's not something I would learn to live with.

2) I also knew when dating that this is a big issue, so I was looking for someone who would do this, and we had LOTS of conversations about it while dating, engaged, newlywed, and pregnant.

3) There is an element of giving up control that you need to accept to have this marriage. My husband is in charge of all baby food. He does NOT do it the way I would - not as many veggies. Everything is store bought Gerber. He's introduced foods a bit willy-nilly, without following a plan or anything. But I don't say a damn word. Because it's done, it's great, and I literally just feed my kid what my husband puts on the counter for me. I never even think about it. That's a win.

You have zero idea of the bolded is true. Zero. Divorce with children is a big, big deal, and it’s so much easier to say what you’d do when you’ve never faced this situation. I’m not even in a position where I’m considering it, but I have enough friends who have to see up close that it’s nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be.

Point two: plenty of people discuss this stuff during dating, and then things change once they have kids. People get sick, or have a kid who activates certain tendencies, or just find it a hell of a lot more stressful than they anticipated. You can talk beforehand until you’re blue in the face; if you haven’t had to deal with things changing in the moment, have some empathy for those who have.

Point three, sure.

+2

Hi, I'm the poster who put the three points above, which I noticed have caused a lot of great discussion on this thread, which is great!

I want to address some of your counter points. Yes, I know that plenty of people talk about this stuff and then they have kids and things change, and I have tons of empathy for them. In fact, that's what I lead with in my comment - that I absolutely feel for people who are in this position, it must be so, so difficult.

As far as splitting up - I'm aware that it's very difficult. My parents divorced when I was a child. Obviously I can't know for sure how I would behave in a certain situation (no one can see around corners), I still believe that I would choose to end the marriage. Note that I'm saying that I would do that - not that I'm telling people in these situations that's what THEY should do - everyone is doing the best with what they've got. And in no way do I think divorce is easy or simple. However, I know myself pretty well, and my limitations, and I know that I react very poorly to being taken advantage of, and I know that resentment absolutely corrodes a marriage, and I am pretty confident I would choose divorce if I was in this position.

Absolutely no judgement whatsoever on others who opt for another path. It must be an absolutely incredibly difficult position to be in.

Oh, and the PP who said "you'd divorce over emotional labor?" is wrong - it's not just emotional labor, it's physical labor (as someone else pointed out) and it's actually more than that - it's disrespect, dismissiveness, and a lack of true partnership. Of knowing that someone else has your back. That's what would do it for me.

I'm one of the PPs who responded to you (the Point three, sure PP), and here's the thing. You describe your marriage as "amazing" and say that you "feel awful for everyone else." Why? Do you presume that everyone else who doesn't have a spouse who contributes exactly half is in a god-awful marriage to someone who contributes nothing? I mean, at what division of labor would you choose divorce? What if your husband did roughly 40% of the labor? Or 30%?

I understand that your intentions are good. But, please, dial back the pity. It's not supportive or empathic, and it doesn't move anything forward.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Accurate. There are actual studies on this.

The solution is for men to step up.

And for corporations to step up majorly. And for Govt to make policies that are family friendly and women friendly.

Yes, women are getting the shaft. In America especially.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've got one of those rare marriages where my husband actually does half, it's amazing, and I feel awful for everyone else. You truly have my sympathies. Especially those who had husbands who seemed to be doing their half before marriage/kids and then it all fell apart. Totally sucks.

That said:

1) I would not put up with it. Do your half or I'm out. It's not something I would learn to live with.

2) I also knew when dating that this is a big issue, so I was looking for someone who would do this, and we had LOTS of conversations about it while dating, engaged, newlywed, and pregnant.

3) There is an element of giving up control that you need to accept to have this marriage. My husband is in charge of all baby food. He does NOT do it the way I would - not as many veggies. Everything is store bought Gerber. He's introduced foods a bit willy-nilly, without following a plan or anything. But I don't say a damn word. Because it's done, it's great, and I literally just feed my kid what my husband puts on the counter for me. I never even think about it. That's a win.

You have zero idea of the bolded is true. Zero. Divorce with children is a big, big deal, and it’s so much easier to say what you’d do when you’ve never faced this situation. I’m not even in a position where I’m considering it, but I have enough friends who have to see up close that it’s nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be.

Point two: plenty of people discuss this stuff during dating, and then things change once they have kids. People get sick, or have a kid who activates certain tendencies, or just find it a hell of a lot more stressful than they anticipated. You can talk beforehand until you’re blue in the face; if you haven’t had to deal with things changing in the moment, have some empathy for those who have.

Point three, sure.

+2

Hi, I'm the poster who put the three points above, which I noticed have caused a lot of great discussion on this thread, which is great!

I want to address some of your counter points. Yes, I know that plenty of people talk about this stuff and then they have kids and things change, and I have tons of empathy for them. In fact, that's what I lead with in my comment - that I absolutely feel for people who are in this position, it must be so, so difficult.

As far as splitting up - I'm aware that it's very difficult. My parents divorced when I was a child. Obviously I can't know for sure how I would behave in a certain situation (no one can see around corners), I still believe that I would choose to end the marriage. Note that I'm saying that I would do that - not that I'm telling people in these situations that's what THEY should do - everyone is doing the best with what they've got. And in no way do I think divorce is easy or simple. However, I know myself pretty well, and my limitations, and I know that I react very poorly to being taken advantage of, and I know that resentment absolutely corrodes a marriage, and I am pretty confident I would choose divorce if I was in this position.

Absolutely no judgement whatsoever on others who opt for another path. It must be an absolutely incredibly difficult position to be in.

Oh, and the PP who said "you'd divorce over emotional labor?" is wrong - it's not just emotional labor, it's physical labor (as someone else pointed out) and it's actually more than that - it's disrespect, dismissiveness, and a lack of true partnership. Of knowing that someone else has your back. That's what would do it for me.

I'm one of the PPs who responded to you (the Point three, sure PP), and here's the thing. You describe your marriage as "amazing" and say that you "feel awful for everyone else." Why? Do you presume that everyone else who doesn't have a spouse who contributes exactly half is in a god-awful marriage to someone who contributes nothing? I mean, at what division of labor would you choose divorce? What if your husband did roughly 40% of the labor? Or 30%?

I understand that your intentions are good. But, please, dial back the pity. It's not supportive or empathic, and it doesn't move anything forward.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've got one of those rare marriages where my husband actually does half, it's amazing, and I feel awful for everyone else. You truly have my sympathies. Especially those who had husbands who seemed to be doing their half before marriage/kids and then it all fell apart. Totally sucks.

That said:

1) I would not put up with it. Do your half or I'm out. It's not something I would learn to live with.

2) I also knew when dating that this is a big issue, so I was looking for someone who would do this, and we had LOTS of conversations about it while dating, engaged, newlywed, and pregnant.

3) There is an element of giving up control that you need to accept to have this marriage. My husband is in charge of all baby food. He does NOT do it the way I would - not as many veggies. Everything is store bought Gerber. He's introduced foods a bit willy-nilly, without following a plan or anything. But I don't say a damn word. Because it's done, it's great, and I literally just feed my kid what my husband puts on the counter for me. I never even think about it. That's a win.

You have zero idea of the bolded is true. Zero. Divorce with children is a big, big deal, and it’s so much easier to say what you’d do when you’ve never faced this situation. I’m not even in a position where I’m considering it, but I have enough friends who have to see up close that it’s nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be.

Point two: plenty of people discuss this stuff during dating, and then things change once they have kids. People get sick, or have a kid who activates certain tendencies, or just find it a hell of a lot more stressful than they anticipated. You can talk beforehand until you’re blue in the face; if you haven’t had to deal with things changing in the moment, have some empathy for those who have.

Point three, sure.

+2

Hi, I'm the poster who put the three points above, which I noticed have caused a lot of great discussion on this thread, which is great!

I want to address some of your counter points. Yes, I know that plenty of people talk about this stuff and then they have kids and things change, and I have tons of empathy for them. In fact, that's what I lead with in my comment - that I absolutely feel for people who are in this position, it must be so, so difficult.

As far as splitting up - I'm aware that it's very difficult. My parents divorced when I was a child. Obviously I can't know for sure how I would behave in a certain situation (no one can see around corners), I still believe that I would choose to end the marriage. Note that I'm saying that I would do that - not that I'm telling people in these situations that's what THEY should do - everyone is doing the best with what they've got. And in no way do I think divorce is easy or simple. However, I know myself pretty well, and my limitations, and I know that I react very poorly to being taken advantage of, and I know that resentment absolutely corrodes a marriage, and I am pretty confident I would choose divorce if I was in this position.

Absolutely no judgement whatsoever on others who opt for another path. It must be an absolutely incredibly difficult position to be in.

Oh, and the PP who said "you'd divorce over emotional labor?" is wrong - it's not just emotional labor, it's physical labor (as someone else pointed out) and it's actually more than that - it's disrespect, dismissiveness, and a lack of true partnership. Of knowing that someone else has your back. That's what would do it for me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Accurate. There are actual studies on this.

The solution is for men to step up.

RBG’s and Kamala’s husbands stepped up.

So did Amy Coney Barrett’s husband.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women always vastly over report how much they contribute in these ridiculous surveys. The studies on this never have objective 3rd parties that actually measure how much each spouse contributes.

Go ahead and ask my wife who does the majority of his work. She'll adamantly claim she does most of it, and will hardly give credit for me taking care of the yard, taking care of home repair, taking care of car maintenance, taking out the trash, cooking, emptying and loading the dish washer, vacuuming, mopping the floors, taking care of all of the finances and insurance issues, and taking care of all pet work.


Most of these stupid surveys measure things like 'amount of time spent'. Sure, my wife does the laundry because she doesn't want anyone touching her clothes, but half the time she's watching Netflix while waiting for the wash and dry cycles to complete. You can't do that while mowing a large lawn. Spending 2 hours mowing the lawn is much more work than 3-4 hours of doing laundry where you just wait around half the time while watching TV. You also hardly ever have to take time off work to do house chores, which is often not the case when you have to do car maintenance and schedule mechanic repairs for all of the cars. Why is it that I always have to use vacation time and have work pile up at work when cars have to get fixed? Women should start going to the grease monkeys for family car repairs instead.

This is a fair point. I think most people overestimate the time they spend on tasks and underestimate the time their spouse does.

It was eye-opening the first time DH and I sat down to try to figure out a more equitable arrangement. I had overlooked a lot of the things he spends more time on, like finances and tax prep. For his part, he wasn’t counting all the time I spend grocery shopping and preparing meals (I do 100% of both), because he thought I enjoyed it. I do like cooking when I have free time, but it’s definitely a major chore to do it daily for a family. He also tried to tell me I enjoyed mowing the lawn, and to this day I have no clue where he got that idea or why it would make any difference.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Accurate. There are actual studies on this.

The solution is for men to step up.

RBG’s and Kamala’s husbands stepped up.