I've already posted but just remembered that I was in a similar situation. I had asked my employer to post me to a certain country in order to ensure that my boyfriend -- nearly fiancé -- would have good job prospects. My employer complied but my boyfriend didn't propose. We'd been together for a few years, and he had said he would. I broke up with him and moved abroad. Three years later I was married to someone else. Nearly twenty years later that boyfriend still has never married although he's had kids and been engaged more than once.

Any updates, OP?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. There are red flags everywhere with this.

Walk away.

This

+1. OP, he became angry with you when you called him out in front of friends because he expected you to keep this charade going so he has you for support without providing commitment to you. He knows damn well that time is of the essence when you're in your 30's and want children. He isn't in love with you or he would have proposed years ago. You need to leave now and try to find someone who wants what you want - and with YOU.

I have some cautionary tales from women who proceeded with the plan he's suggested. For couple A, the guy finally bought her a wing but held up getting married, claiming he couldn't decide what kind of wedding he wanted. They bought a home together and had kids out of wedlock. She keeps pushing for marriage and he tells people behind her back that she pressured him into having kids. They're still unmarried and quite frankly she looks like a stupid slut who settled for whatever crumbs he would give her.

Couple B. The guy was divorced without kids and the woman really wanted to marry him and have kids. She accidentally-on-purpose got pregnant and didn't tell him until it was too late for an abortion. They moved in together and bought a home, but she does 95% of anything having to do with the kids. They continued to have more kids but he won't marry her. Again, the woman has an engagement ring for over a decade but no marriage. The guy is immature and resentful and told us that he feels pressured into this life, but he won't say that to her face.

These guys both tell completely different stories to other people when the woman isn't around. I have no doubt that your BF is doing the same. You're both so insecure that you'll stay way too long without getting your needs met and he's too insecure to just be single so he's keeping you around but he doesn't love you enough to commit to you. These guys imagine a future with some other woman they haven't met yet, not with you. Meanwhile they slowly inch towards a building a life with you and even their own kids that they never wanted. Both the men and women in these situations are deplorable. They're using these kids as pawns and the men don't feel nearly as committed to these kids as the women do.

OP, I'm disgusted that you didn't leave after your BF suggested bringing children into this world with this false promise of marriage later. It's clear that you're actually considering this, which would be wildly unfair to any kids. Break up with him and get yourself therapy to work on your self esteem.

Anonymous wrote:NP. There are red flags everywhere with this.

Walk away.

This

I dated a man in my early 30s who, 2 years in, loved to talk about where we would live, look at real estate listings, talk about kids names. But when I got pregnant accidentally (birth control fail) he freaked out, didn't want the kid, and then when I wasn't sure made it clear he was not ready for marriage kids (even though he was late 30s). I ended up having an m/c and broke up with him. As far as I know, he never did get married to anyone.

point is, talk is cheap, proof is in the pudding . I have no issues with OP proposing, if only to get the straight answer. But better is to make clear her desire to get married within X timeframe or else she walks

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally it’s a bad idea. How long have you been dating? How old are you guys?

4 years, mid thirties

Oh do NOT propose. Mid 30s and four years. He is still not sure about YOU. There is a reason he hasn’t proposed. When men are ready to marry, specifically to you, he will propose. The upside to proposing is watching his reaction and then cutting your losses.

I always hear about these situations where the guy isn’t sure, girl walks and then the guy meets another girl, gets engaged and married within a year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Generally it’s a bad idea. How long have you been dating? How old are you guys?

4 years, mid thirties

Oh do NOT propose. Mid 30s and four years. He is still not sure about YOU. There is a reason he hasn’t proposed. When men are ready to marry, specifically to you, he will propose. The upside to proposing is watching his reaction and then cutting your losses.

Anonymous wrote:He knows you want to get married. He is not ready. He knows you want to be married before having kids, yet suggests having kids first. He knows you want him to propose and that the delay upsets you. He is NOT traditional if he wants to buy a house with you and start a family, before he proposes. He stalled with wanting to get the business of the ground, he is still stalling now - why?

I would hold off saying anything about marriage at all until March. That gives him the typical Christmas holidays/New Years/ Valentine's Day to propose if he is planning to. If he has no proposed by March, I would walk away. Do not but a house in the meantime.

+1

He is not traditional.

It sounds like he wants the freedom to walk away easily. I would bet he would want the house only in his name, and for OP to give him money to pay towards the mortgage so that the mortgage is also just in his name. This happened to a friend of mine - she and her BF never married but bought a house together. When they broke up, he tried to claim that he was the sole owner.

Also, unfortunately, men have shown that it's easy to walk away from the children they helped to create.

OP, I would go after what o want in life with someone who wants the same things - marriage, then kids and a house.

I think in theory it's 100% fine for a woman to propose. The issue, however, is that this concept typically only comes up where the woman has been waiting a long time, making lots of hints, and the guy has not yet proposed. In other words, where the evidence suggests the guy is not ready/interested in getting married. So while i think in theory it'd be wonderful for women to propose, in practice it only comes up where it's a really bad idea.

To those who say that the fact he talks kids/house is evidence that he is committed to her.... these are classic and easy things to 'talk' about. But they are very, very different than pulling the trigger. Have you gone to open houses? Has he signed up for a zillow search that emails him all the new listings every morning? Have you both pulled out all your paperwork to get a mortgage? If none of those things have happened, if "we want to buy a house" means simply that you talk about which neighborhoods you like, or whether you want a house or a condo with kids, etc, then you guys aren't buying a house. You're just talking, the same way DH and i these days talk about what our next vacation will be post covid.

It is unacceptable that he wants the house and kids before marriage. He's not willing to make a commitment with you. Let him know that while he's figuring his life out, you'll be dating other people. Stop waiting around for him. Either he'll step up or he won't.