^^ Oh, to complete my thought here. Sorry.

I don't think a medium-high but not sky-high MAP score is the death knell for middle school admissions because MCPS is aware that systemic barriers can keep an intelligent kid from having access to subject matter that is beyond grade level. Like, if no one ever teaches you that A= pi x radius squared, you aren't going to know it so will get that question wrong.

Anonymous wrote:Lay it on me DCUM, fairly new to the area and my kid scored a 239 on reading and 231 on math just now for MAP. No prep/extra outside of school tutoring and generally above average student but nothing too spectacular.

How are those scores? Are we out of the running for magnet MS (not that interested but curious)? Is my kid doomed for failure? Give me those spicy comments

I don't think those scores take her out of the pool, but she would need to do VERY well on the cogat screener. MAP and cogat measure different things, according to MCPS (and the test makers). MAP measures exposure to concepts, so a child in compacted math will do better than an equally intelligent child who is in Math 5, because the first child has been exposed to higher level concepts. The cogat, on the other hand, is meant to measure aptitude.

This isn't a perfect system, obviously. Kids who have not been exposed to higher level math in school can seek it out in other contexts, and there's a whole industry devoted to cogat test prep.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child knows very little about other kids' grades, test scores or anything else. A few kids brag but they are old enough to keep their mouths shut.

You sound like you are up in everyone's business. I really hope your child is not at my child's school because I want to avoid you like the plague.

My DC doesn't even know her own Cogat scores. Never told her and I certainly never told any other parents or kids. She was at a CES. That other PP who claims to know everything is full of BS. Kids do not share scores like that. Map, yes. Cogat, no.

Agree with you. I wasn’t talking about MAP or cogat just that it’s clear to staff and kids who the strongest are in some subjects. I’ve also been told by teachers how my kid compares. Perhaps this isn’t usual but when a teacher tells you that your kids scores are the highest in the school or that your child is an outlier not just in their class but the school you tend to assume they are telling the truth. Maybe they weren’t but it wasn’t a surprise and I’m not sure why they would lie.

(Btw there are multiple people responding sometimes to posts that are in response to me. This is all getting a little confusing.)

You realize that's very common for kids who are left behind at their schools and doing well. MAP and Cognat are helpful vs. teachers who may or may not get to know the kids/show an interest. We had really bad teachers in 4th and 5th grade was a nightmare between multiple long term subs and a teacher who didn't care when they came back.

How can it possibly be very common for multiple kids to have scored the highest in a school? Only one kid can do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're feeling insecure because you felt like the MS magnet acceptance was a validation that your child is smarter than/better than/superior to the CES kids. You have a chip on your shoulder. I don't know why.

MCPS has been clear they balanced for elementary school representation and the result of that, which they never stated explicitly because it wasn't a criteria but a result of the criteria, was some CES kids with higher scores than non-CES kids did not get in.

I’m not insecure at all. They made the right choice.

This post hits the nail on the head though. They balance for elementary schools (allegedly). That may favor some kids in schools where there is no CES program, given that many of the high achieving kids have been moved elsewhere. If that’s the case it’s disadvantages all kids in a school that houses a CES, not just “CES kids”.

Actually they don't. We only had two kids go. There were about 6 kids who should have gone. There was no enrichment for the other kids at school.

Are you replying to a different question??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child knows very little about other kids' grades, test scores or anything else. A few kids brag but they are old enough to keep their mouths shut.

You sound like you are up in everyone's business. I really hope your child is not at my child's school because I want to avoid you like the plague.

My DC doesn't even know her own Cogat scores. Never told her and I certainly never told any other parents or kids. She was at a CES. That other PP who claims to know everything is full of BS. Kids do not share scores like that. Map, yes. Cogat, no.

Agree with you. I wasn’t talking about MAP or cogat just that it’s clear to staff and kids who the strongest are in some subjects. I’ve also been told by teachers how my kid compares. Perhaps this isn’t usual but when a teacher tells you that your kids scores are the highest in the school or that your child is an outlier not just in their class but the school you tend to assume they are telling the truth. Maybe they weren’t but it wasn’t a surprise and I’m not sure why they would lie.

(Btw there are multiple people responding sometimes to posts that are in response to me. This is all getting a little confusing.)

You realize that's very common for kids who are left behind at their schools and doing well. MAP and Cognat are helpful vs. teachers who may or may not get to know the kids/show an interest. We had really bad teachers in 4th and 5th grade was a nightmare between multiple long term subs and a teacher who didn't care when they came back.

What’s very common? My kid wasn’t “left behind”. There was a CES in his school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're feeling insecure because you felt like the MS magnet acceptance was a validation that your child is smarter than/better than/superior to the CES kids. You have a chip on your shoulder. I don't know why.

MCPS has been clear they balanced for elementary school representation and the result of that, which they never stated explicitly because it wasn't a criteria but a result of the criteria, was some CES kids with higher scores than non-CES kids did not get in.

I’m not insecure at all. They made the right choice.

This post hits the nail on the head though. They balance for elementary schools (allegedly). That may favor some kids in schools where there is no CES program, given that many of the high achieving kids have been moved elsewhere. If that’s the case it’s disadvantages all kids in a school that houses a CES, not just “CES kids”.

Actually they don't. We only had two kids go. There were about 6 kids who should have gone. There was no enrichment for the other kids at school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child knows very little about other kids' grades, test scores or anything else. A few kids brag but they are old enough to keep their mouths shut.

You sound like you are up in everyone's business. I really hope your child is not at my child's school because I want to avoid you like the plague.

My DC doesn't even know her own Cogat scores. Never told her and I certainly never told any other parents or kids. She was at a CES. That other PP who claims to know everything is full of BS. Kids do not share scores like that. Map, yes. Cogat, no.

Agree with you. I wasn’t talking about MAP or cogat just that it’s clear to staff and kids who the strongest are in some subjects. I’ve also been told by teachers how my kid compares. Perhaps this isn’t usual but when a teacher tells you that your kids scores are the highest in the school or that your child is an outlier not just in their class but the school you tend to assume they are telling the truth. Maybe they weren’t but it wasn’t a surprise and I’m not sure why they would lie.

(Btw there are multiple people responding sometimes to posts that are in response to me. This is all getting a little confusing.)

You realize that's very common for kids who are left behind at their schools and doing well. MAP and Cognat are helpful vs. teachers who may or may not get to know the kids/show an interest. We had really bad teachers in 4th and 5th grade was a nightmare between multiple long term subs and a teacher who didn't care when they came back.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - My kid got it at the end of her test and just showed me.

We are in a W feeder school so I'm guessing it's going to be unlikely that my kid gets into a magnet MS.

If you're not at a CES even if you're at a W-feeder school, that increases your chance vastly.

This is not true. I think what you are trying to claim is that if you are not at a school that houses a CES.

This is absolutely true. We know of twins. One (female) at their local school and one (male) at a CES. The one at the CES had higher schools on all tests, grades, etc and did not get in while the one at the local school did. Both would have gone to the same middle school.

You don’t seem to understand. If the twins were at the SAME school and one was in the CES and the other was not you’d be able to compare. But it sounds like they were at different schools with different feeder patterns and different demographics. So you are wrong.

I think you are the one who is confused. They use the home middle school to compare so they would have been ranked on the same "list." The things that are different are gender and the fact they wanted to take kids from every elementary. She must have been one of the top scorers in her elementary. The admits from our home school were kids who just missed CES admission (wait listed) or turned down the CES (but admitted) for 4th/5th.

Look, lady, tell me how two kids would fare with the same scores at the same school where one is in the CES program and the other is not. That’s the only way to compare to see if the CES makes a difference. My own kid was not in the CES and he scored higher than other kids who were AT THE SAME SCHOOL as him and WERE IN THE CES. He got in because his scores were higher not because he wasn’t in the CES.

You need to calm down. No one is insulting your child. This is the reality of the MCPS system. No one has any idea if your child scored higher or not, unless they work at MCPS. I don't know how you could possibly claim to know this information.

MAP scores are posted on the screen so other kids can see it and kids talk. Parents talk too. There is nothing that special of CES but your kid is with all smart kids and very segregated.

If your child was at a CES I would not be so skeptical that your child knows the range of MAP scores of the other kids at the CES. But your child was not at a CES, has not been testing in the same room as the CES kids. Second, I know some kids shared their Cogat scores with each other but it is really just a handful and who knows if those scores are accurate.

I do think the 3rd grade test might miss some very bright kids. Wasn't it just a screener rather than a full Cogat? So it's certainly possible a kid at a regional CES school but not in the program might score higher than other CES kids. It's also possible a kid might have had a bad day in 3rd grade and then did better in 5th for testing or that she or he began to blossom later. Who knows.

What is absurd is your absolute insistence that your child definitely scored higher than all the other kids in the CES to gain admission. Scored higher on what test? Why don't you post your child's scores and people here can weigh in? Other PPs are being very open about their child's scores and comparing. Let's compare yours.

You’re missing the kids who joined in fourth or fifth and were never considered for the CES. MCPS has been clear about the criteria and they do not expect students who were at a CES to score higher than those who are not. There are other factors at play.

FWIW, they absolutely did the right thing in selecting my kid. He’s been an outlier since he taught himself to read at age 3. MCPS curriculum for fifth was a disaster for him. They weren’t meeting his needs at all. It was clear to anyone who has ever taught him that he would be a strong candidate for this type of program and also clear that he didn’t have a solid peer group at the same level at his elementary. So for us, the system worked as it should have done.

Your kid is not an outlier for reading at 3. Mine was reading at 3 too. It shocked us when he said he could read and we thought it was memorized but it wasn't. Yes, you kid should have a spot but you are getting defensive about those of our kids who were not offered a spot for middle school, which is the topic at hand. My child didn't have a similar peer group and only a few other kids were at the same level. The system worked for you, but failed some of our kids. We didn't even get any differentiation.

I’m sorry it failed your kid. There are many reasons my kid is an outlier and like I said they were obvious. (For example by age 4 he was tested to read at 4th grade level, but go ahead and tell me that kids like that are a dime a dozen - they are not and anyone who has had a kid like that knows it).

Clearly their kid wasn't an outlier as far as MCPS was concerned or they'd be in the program. More likely they're bright but one of many similar kids at a fine middle school. I'm told the enriched class are wonderful.

Our middle school only has enrichment in math. Not sure what you are talking about as every school offered different things. Our elementary offered no enrichment beyond impacted math.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child knows very little about other kids' grades, test scores or anything else. A few kids brag but they are old enough to keep their mouths shut.

You sound like you are up in everyone's business. I really hope your child is not at my child's school because I want to avoid you like the plague.

My DC doesn't even know her own Cogat scores. Never told her and I certainly never told any other parents or kids. She was at a CES. That other PP who claims to know everything is full of BS. Kids do not share scores like that. Map, yes. Cogat, no.

Agree with you. I wasn’t talking about MAP or cogat just that it’s clear to staff and kids who the strongest are in some subjects. I’ve also been told by teachers how my kid compares. Perhaps this isn’t usual but when a teacher tells you that your kids scores are the highest in the school or that your child is an outlier not just in their class but the school you tend to assume they are telling the truth. Maybe they weren’t but it wasn’t a surprise and I’m not sure why they would lie.

(Btw there are multiple people responding sometimes to posts that are in response to me. This is all getting a little confusing.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - My kid got it at the end of her test and just showed me.

We are in a W feeder school so I'm guessing it's going to be unlikely that my kid gets into a magnet MS.

If you're not at a CES even if you're at a W-feeder school, that increases your chance vastly.

This is not true. I think what you are trying to claim is that if you are not at a school that houses a CES.

This is absolutely true. We know of twins. One (female) at their local school and one (male) at a CES. The one at the CES had higher schools on all tests, grades, etc and did not get in while the one at the local school did. Both would have gone to the same middle school.

You don’t seem to understand. If the twins were at the SAME school and one was in the CES and the other was not you’d be able to compare. But it sounds like they were at different schools with different feeder patterns and different demographics. So you are wrong.

I think you are the one who is confused. They use the home middle school to compare so they would have been ranked on the same "list." The things that are different are gender and the fact they wanted to take kids from every elementary. She must have been one of the top scorers in her elementary. The admits from our home school were kids who just missed CES admission (wait listed) or turned down the CES (but admitted) for 4th/5th.

Look, lady, tell me how two kids would fare with the same scores at the same school where one is in the CES program and the other is not. That’s the only way to compare to see if the CES makes a difference. My own kid was not in the CES and he scored higher than other kids who were AT THE SAME SCHOOL as him and WERE IN THE CES. He got in because his scores were higher not because he wasn’t in the CES.

You need to calm down. No one is insulting your child. This is the reality of the MCPS system. No one has any idea if your child scored higher or not, unless they work at MCPS. I don't know how you could possibly claim to know this information.

MAP scores are posted on the screen so other kids can see it and kids talk. Parents talk too. There is nothing that special of CES but your kid is with all smart kids and very segregated.

If your child was at a CES I would not be so skeptical that your child knows the range of MAP scores of the other kids at the CES. But your child was not at a CES, has not been testing in the same room as the CES kids. Second, I know some kids shared their Cogat scores with each other but it is really just a handful and who knows if those scores are accurate.

I do think the 3rd grade test might miss some very bright kids. Wasn't it just a screener rather than a full Cogat? So it's certainly possible a kid at a regional CES school but not in the program might score higher than other CES kids. It's also possible a kid might have had a bad day in 3rd grade and then did better in 5th for testing or that she or he began to blossom later. Who knows.

What is absurd is your absolute insistence that your child definitely scored higher than all the other kids in the CES to gain admission. Scored higher on what test? Why don't you post your child's scores and people here can weigh in? Other PPs are being very open about their child's scores and comparing. Let's compare yours.

You’re missing the kids who joined in fourth or fifth and were never considered for the CES. MCPS has been clear about the criteria and they do not expect students who were at a CES to score higher than those who are not. There are other factors at play.

FWIW, they absolutely did the right thing in selecting my kid. He’s been an outlier since he taught himself to read at age 3. MCPS curriculum for fifth was a disaster for him. They weren’t meeting his needs at all. It was clear to anyone who has ever taught him that he would be a strong candidate for this type of program and also clear that he didn’t have a solid peer group at the same level at his elementary. So for us, the system worked as it should have done.

Your kid is not an outlier for reading at 3. Mine was reading at 3 too. It shocked us when he said he could read and we thought it was memorized but it wasn't. Yes, you kid should have a spot but you are getting defensive about those of our kids who were not offered a spot for middle school, which is the topic at hand. My child didn't have a similar peer group and only a few other kids were at the same level. The system worked for you, but failed some of our kids. We didn't even get any differentiation.

I’m sorry it failed your kid. There are many reasons my kid is an outlier and like I said they were obvious. (For example by age 4 he was tested to read at 4th grade level, but go ahead and tell me that kids like that are a dime a dozen - they are not and anyone who has had a kid like that knows it).

Clearly their kid wasn't an outlier as far as MCPS was concerned or they'd be in the program. More likely they're bright but one of many similar kids at a fine middle school. I'm told the enriched class are wonderful.

Yes he was. He’s in the program.

Anonymous wrote:My child knows very little about other kids' grades, test scores or anything else. A few kids brag but they are old enough to keep their mouths shut.

You sound like you are up in everyone's business. I really hope your child is not at my child's school because I want to avoid you like the plague.

My DC doesn't even know her own Cogat scores. Never told her and I certainly never told any other parents or kids. She was at a CES. That other PP who claims to know everything is full of BS. Kids do not share scores like that. Map, yes. Cogat, no.

Anonymous wrote:

Clearly their kid wasn't an outlier as far as MCPS was concerned or they'd be in the program. More likely they're bright but one of many similar kids at a fine middle school. I'm told the enriched class are wonderful.

Also you are really condescending. Are you like this in real life?

Anonymous wrote:

Clearly their kid wasn't an outlier as far as MCPS was concerned or they'd be in the program. More likely they're bright but one of many similar kids at a fine middle school. I'm told the enriched class are wonderful.

I completely disagree.
The new process is designed to pick up diverse group of kids (using the broadest definition which also includes gender and geographic diversity) who are academically strong who would benefit from a different approach to education. It picked up a lot of kids who might have been left out in the past. Success. It is failing a lot of kids who may need this type of education, and may be stronger academically than the ones who were picked.

I support universal screening. There were a lot of disadvantages to the old application process but it did account for one thing that the process today does not account for which is motivation and parents knowing if their kid needs something else. My child has really enjoyed the magnet programs but I know there are kids at the neighborhood school who might "need" it more. In the old system they would have applied and teachers would have recommended them as needing more. That's been taken out of the equation.

Before you jump on me about bias in teacher recommendations, I'm well aware. That system was not perfect either but I am just acknowledging there are some kids who actually need these programs who are not able to access them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're feeling insecure because you felt like the MS magnet acceptance was a validation that your child is smarter than/better than/superior to the CES kids. You have a chip on your shoulder. I don't know why.

MCPS has been clear they balanced for elementary school representation and the result of that, which they never stated explicitly because it wasn't a criteria but a result of the criteria, was some CES kids with higher scores than non-CES kids did not get in.

I’m not insecure at all. They made the right choice.

This post hits the nail on the head though. They balance for elementary schools (allegedly). That may favor some kids in schools where there is no CES program, given that many of the high achieving kids have been moved elsewhere. If that’s the case it’s disadvantages all kids in a school that houses a CES, not just “CES kids”.

This is simply not true. They looked at the non-CES kids at CES schools as their own separate elementary requiring representation. Your child may still have scored higher than everyone in the CES for that one test (Map-M) but you don't know if your child outscored all the other CES kids overall factoring in Cogat. You sound kind of unhinged insisting this is the case.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - My kid got it at the end of her test and just showed me.

We are in a W feeder school so I'm guessing it's going to be unlikely that my kid gets into a magnet MS.

If you're not at a CES even if you're at a W-feeder school, that increases your chance vastly.

This is not true. I think what you are trying to claim is that if you are not at a school that houses a CES.

This is absolutely true. We know of twins. One (female) at their local school and one (male) at a CES. The one at the CES had higher schools on all tests, grades, etc and did not get in while the one at the local school did. Both would have gone to the same middle school.

You don’t seem to understand. If the twins were at the SAME school and one was in the CES and the other was not you’d be able to compare. But it sounds like they were at different schools with different feeder patterns and different demographics. So you are wrong.

I think you are the one who is confused. They use the home middle school to compare so they would have been ranked on the same "list." The things that are different are gender and the fact they wanted to take kids from every elementary. She must have been one of the top scorers in her elementary. The admits from our home school were kids who just missed CES admission (wait listed) or turned down the CES (but admitted) for 4th/5th.

Look, lady, tell me how two kids would fare with the same scores at the same school where one is in the CES program and the other is not. That’s the only way to compare to see if the CES makes a difference. My own kid was not in the CES and he scored higher than other kids who were AT THE SAME SCHOOL as him and WERE IN THE CES. He got in because his scores were higher not because he wasn’t in the CES.

You need to calm down. No one is insulting your child. This is the reality of the MCPS system. No one has any idea if your child scored higher or not, unless they work at MCPS. I don't know how you could possibly claim to know this information.

MAP scores are posted on the screen so other kids can see it and kids talk. Parents talk too. There is nothing that special of CES but your kid is with all smart kids and very segregated.

If your child was at a CES I would not be so skeptical that your child knows the range of MAP scores of the other kids at the CES. But your child was not at a CES, has not been testing in the same room as the CES kids. Second, I know some kids shared their Cogat scores with each other but it is really just a handful and who knows if those scores are accurate.

I do think the 3rd grade test might miss some very bright kids. Wasn't it just a screener rather than a full Cogat? So it's certainly possible a kid at a regional CES school but not in the program might score higher than other CES kids. It's also possible a kid might have had a bad day in 3rd grade and then did better in 5th for testing or that she or he began to blossom later. Who knows.

What is absurd is your absolute insistence that your child definitely scored higher than all the other kids in the CES to gain admission. Scored higher on what test? Why don't you post your child's scores and people here can weigh in? Other PPs are being very open about their child's scores and comparing. Let's compare yours.

You’re missing the kids who joined in fourth or fifth and were never considered for the CES. MCPS has been clear about the criteria and they do not expect students who were at a CES to score higher than those who are not. There are other factors at play.

FWIW, they absolutely did the right thing in selecting my kid. He’s been an outlier since he taught himself to read at age 3. MCPS curriculum for fifth was a disaster for him. They weren’t meeting his needs at all. It was clear to anyone who has ever taught him that he would be a strong candidate for this type of program and also clear that he didn’t have a solid peer group at the same level at his elementary. So for us, the system worked as it should have done.

Your kid is not an outlier for reading at 3. Mine was reading at 3 too. It shocked us when he said he could read and we thought it was memorized but it wasn't. Yes, you kid should have a spot but you are getting defensive about those of our kids who were not offered a spot for middle school, which is the topic at hand. My child didn't have a similar peer group and only a few other kids were at the same level. The system worked for you, but failed some of our kids. We didn't even get any differentiation.

I’m sorry it failed your kid. There are many reasons my kid is an outlier and like I said they were obvious. (For example by age 4 he was tested to read at 4th grade level, but go ahead and tell me that kids like that are a dime a dozen - they are not and anyone who has had a kid like that knows it).

Clearly their kid wasn't an outlier as far as MCPS was concerned or they'd be in the program. More likely they're bright but one of many similar kids at a fine middle school. I'm told the enriched class are wonderful.