Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 17:26     Subject: Re:What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
Getting rid of the test is a mistake. The test weeded out 2/3 of the applicants deemed ill-suited for TJ and thus not qualifying for the semi-final round.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 17:18     Subject: Re:What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And the purpose of TJ is to provide more advanced STEM coursework to students with the interest and demonstrated aptitude for high level STEM work. A lottery does not further that purpose.


I am pro-TJ reform - I agree with you on all of this, including the insufficiency of a lottery, EXCEPT for the word "demonstrated". I don't see positives in requiring students to "demonstrate" their aptitude by the age of 13 because too often that is falsified by expensive and gatekept prep courses and extracurricular activities. The current TJ admissions office and process is lazy in identifying aptitude and potential, and I am hopeful that an improved admissions process will do a far better job of this down the road.


I agree that the prepping and race for activities have gotten out of control, but that doesn't mean that there is no way to demonstrate or measure aptitude. No method is perfect but that doesn't mean we should just forget about aptitude and passion entirely. Maybe a test written newly every year by TJ faculty would be better? But if there isn't any kind of test, and just a lottery, there is no way that the kids who really have the aptitude and passion will be the ones who get in.


Definitely agree about the lottery. But I don't agree about the exam. Exams overrepresent people and families who choose to use their resources on preparing for them - this is a large part of why all of the Ivies are at least test-optional at this point.

You can build a pretty accurate narrative about a student through their report cards (and the totality of them, not just the grades but the courses that they were in), teacher recommendations, essays, and so on. It just requires a little bit of extra work on the part of the admissions personnel evaluating the application.

So what are you looking for? You're looking for excellent students from whom you can cobble together a class that will create an exceptional learning environment. And that's the thing that is missing from TJ right now. It is certainly an advanced learning environment, but it's one that is toxic and hyper-competitive and leads to massive amounts of comparison, stress, and burnout among their students because too many of them are following the same path.


I think getting rid of the test would not be as bad if they looked at differences in grades/courses and at essays and recommendations (although I think subjective recommendations are just as, if not more, susceptible to bias as tests). But getting rid of the test and then not distinguishing between anyone with a certain GPA is astonishingly misguided.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 13:05     Subject: Re:What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And the purpose of TJ is to provide more advanced STEM coursework to students with the interest and demonstrated aptitude for high level STEM work. A lottery does not further that purpose.


I am pro-TJ reform - I agree with you on all of this, including the insufficiency of a lottery, EXCEPT for the word "demonstrated". I don't see positives in requiring students to "demonstrate" their aptitude by the age of 13 because too often that is falsified by expensive and gatekept prep courses and extracurricular activities. The current TJ admissions office and process is lazy in identifying aptitude and potential, and I am hopeful that an improved admissions process will do a far better job of this down the road.


I agree that the prepping and race for activities have gotten out of control, but that doesn't mean that there is no way to demonstrate or measure aptitude. No method is perfect but that doesn't mean we should just forget about aptitude and passion entirely. Maybe a test written newly every year by TJ faculty would be better? But if there isn't any kind of test, and just a lottery, there is no way that the kids who really have the aptitude and passion will be the ones who get in.


Definitely agree about the lottery. But I don't agree about the exam. Exams overrepresent people and families who choose to use their resources on preparing for them - this is a large part of why all of the Ivies are at least test-optional at this point.

You can build a pretty accurate narrative about a student through their report cards (and the totality of them, not just the grades but the courses that they were in), teacher recommendations, essays, and so on. It just requires a little bit of extra work on the part of the admissions personnel evaluating the application.

So what are you looking for? You're looking for excellent students from whom you can cobble together a class that will create an exceptional learning environment. And that's the thing that is missing from TJ right now. It is certainly an advanced learning environment, but it's one that is toxic and hyper-competitive and leads to massive amounts of comparison, stress, and burnout among their students because too many of them are following the same path.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 12:55     Subject: Re:What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And the purpose of TJ is to provide more advanced STEM coursework to students with the interest and demonstrated aptitude for high level STEM work. A lottery does not further that purpose.


I am pro-TJ reform - I agree with you on all of this, including the insufficiency of a lottery, EXCEPT for the word "demonstrated". I don't see positives in requiring students to "demonstrate" their aptitude by the age of 13 because too often that is falsified by expensive and gatekept prep courses and extracurricular activities. The current TJ admissions office and process is lazy in identifying aptitude and potential, and I am hopeful that an improved admissions process will do a far better job of this down the road.


I agree that the prepping and race for activities have gotten out of control, but that doesn't mean that there is no way to demonstrate or measure aptitude. No method is perfect but that doesn't mean we should just forget about aptitude and passion entirely. Maybe a test written newly every year by TJ faculty would be better? But if there isn't any kind of test, and just a lottery, there is no way that the kids who really have the aptitude and passion will be the ones who get in.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 12:48     Subject: Re:What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
Anonymous wrote:And the purpose of TJ is to provide more advanced STEM coursework to students with the interest and demonstrated aptitude for high level STEM work. A lottery does not further that purpose.


I am pro-TJ reform - I agree with you on all of this, including the insufficiency of a lottery, EXCEPT for the word "demonstrated". I don't see positives in requiring students to "demonstrate" their aptitude by the age of 13 because too often that is falsified by expensive and gatekept prep courses and extracurricular activities. The current TJ admissions office and process is lazy in identifying aptitude and potential, and I am hopeful that an improved admissions process will do a far better job of this down the road.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 12:42     Subject: Re:What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
And the purpose of TJ is to provide more advanced STEM coursework to students with the interest and demonstrated aptitude for high level STEM work. A lottery does not further that purpose.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 12:33     Subject: What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the purpose of the geographic/middle school system is to increase racial diversity and specifically to decrease the number of Asian Americans.


FCPS cares a lot less about decreasing the number of Asian Americans than they do about increasing the numbers of kids who have historically been largely shut out of the process. Obviously the one will result in the other, but it's not like they're motivated by some anti-Asian animus.


I'm not so sure of that. If their constituents like the ones who show up on any TJ thread on DCUM at all reflect the Board members, there is most definitely anti-Asian American sentiment at play. There have been so many posts from people claiming to be white or black parents who don't want tos end their kid to TJ because they don't want to go to school with Asian American kids.

I'm also wondering if Brabrand is going to suggest a lottery for high school sports spots, too?


What would be the purpose of a high school sports lottery? High school sports teams are designed specifically to compete to win games. While TJ does compete in many areas, the competition isn't at all the point and a TJ education is an opportunity, not an outcome. Poor analogy.

Also, the existence of anti-Asian sentiment on DCUM threads is in no way evidence of anti-Asian sentiment in FCPS' central offices. That's a pretty big stretch.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 12:27     Subject: What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the purpose of the geographic/middle school system is to increase racial diversity and specifically to decrease the number of Asian Americans.


FCPS cares a lot less about decreasing the number of Asian Americans than they do about increasing the numbers of kids who have historically been largely shut out of the process. Obviously the one will result in the other, but it's not like they're motivated by some anti-Asian animus.


I'm not so sure of that. If their constituents like the ones who show up on any TJ thread on DCUM at all reflect the Board members, there is most definitely anti-Asian American sentiment at play. There have been so many posts from people claiming to be white or black parents who don't want tos end their kid to TJ because they don't want to go to school with Asian American kids.

I'm also wondering if Brabrand is going to suggest a lottery for high school sports spots, too?
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 12:23     Subject: What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
Recent Indian immigrants to the US are already going to be more STEM inclined. It's not like you are dealing with average intelligence in the first place. Their parents have competed in one of the world's largest populations for top grades, etc.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 12:22     Subject: What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
Anonymous wrote:Rumor is that Brabrand is going to recommend a lottery system based solely on MS GPA (as though grades in MS are equivalent among MS; as though spring 2020 grades had any validity after the COVID DL changes) with quotas for each MS.

This is a terrible idea that will lead to miserable kids who cannot deal with the rigor of TJ or TJ will be diminished in its educational quality.

If the reason for his recommendation is COVID and they cannot safely administer the fall TJ test, he should create a countywide pool for a lottery based on GPA and a teacher thumbs up, not quotas by MS. This would still create a class that will have many more challenges than a usual TJ class but it would bet better than his rumored proposal.


I think these are awesome!
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 12:05     Subject: What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the purpose of the geographic/middle school system is to increase racial diversity and specifically to decrease the number of Asian Americans.


Well, one prep place that only serves Indian families went from 50 students two years to 133 students for the class of 2024. There are allagations that the Curie students systemically cheated. So, its not reducing certain ethnic groups so much as getting rid of the role that cheating/prep has played in gaining access to admissions for certain ethnic groups.


Even if the allegations about Curie are true, I hope you're not suggesting that every Indian student cheats or even preps, because that is not true and a disgusting insinuation.


That's not what I read in this comment. The fact that eliminating the value of the prep industry would have a disproportionate impact on Indian students (which it undoubtedly would) does not mean that EVERY Indian student engages in this activity designed to enhance the appearance of their intelligence.

The crop of Indian students that you would get from a move like this would be MUCH stronger - and the ones who didn't make the cut would likely have MUCH better college outcomes from their base schools.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 11:59     Subject: What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the purpose of the geographic/middle school system is to increase racial diversity and specifically to decrease the number of Asian Americans.


Well, one prep place that only serves Indian families went from 50 students two years to 133 students for the class of 2024. There are allagations that the Curie students systemically cheated. So, its not reducing certain ethnic groups so much as getting rid of the role that cheating/prep has played in gaining access to admissions for certain ethnic groups.


Even if the allegations about Curie are true, I hope you're not suggesting that every Indian student cheats or even preps, because that is not true and a disgusting insinuation.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 11:59     Subject: What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
Anonymous wrote:My bad - the 3-4 were the only kids my DS knew at LJ

here is the admissions data I found

http://www.fcag.org/documents/TJadmitbyMS.Classes2017to2021.pdf

Looks like it ranged from 11 to 18 kids a year until recently - hopefully gotten better. LJMS is a terrific MS.


Agree - and I think their numbers have increased somewhat since then! You're in a great spot!
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 11:58     Subject: What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the purpose of the geographic/middle school system is to increase racial diversity and specifically to decrease the number of Asian Americans.


FCPS cares a lot less about decreasing the number of Asian Americans than they do about increasing the numbers of kids who have historically been largely shut out of the process. Obviously the one will result in the other, but it's not like they're motivated by some anti-Asian animus.
Anonymous
Post 09/14/2020 11:58     Subject: What changes in the TJ admissions procedure do you predict this year ?
My bad - the 3-4 were the only kids my DS knew at LJ

here is the admissions data I found

http://www.fcag.org/documents/TJadmitbyMS.Classes2017to2021.pdf

Looks like it ranged from 11 to 18 kids a year until recently - hopefully gotten better. LJMS is a terrific MS.