Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't hear it in anyone over the age of about 28. It's actively harming careers. As a man I can't speak up because it sounds sexist but hopefully some of the older millenial and gen x women will say something.

I'm a millennial woman and I do have something to say about this.

You know what's harming our careers? Sexist mouth-breathing men like you who look for any reason to dismiss the intellect of a female colleague.

If you think vocal fry is annoying, I can guarantee you also sound like a total idiot in meetings.

Bravo, sis 👏🏼

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Anonymous wrote:Listen young women. Don't let people gaslight you into looking even further at yourselves to figure out what's wrong with you and why can't you fit in and change to sound more like a man.

Professor Higgins asked this question in "My Fair Lady," why can't a woman be more like a man?" He was giving her voice lessons to turn a low class gutter snipe into a high society lady, as an experiment.

Just ignore these idiots. Talk how you want to talk.

Let's be clear about something, babe: You're not going to normalize these unprofessional manners of speaking. Another thing that's not going to be normalized in corporate spaces is this whole choose-your-own-pronoun nonsense.

Babe.... oh boy.. he used Babe... he must be very serious. I mean, he did say BABE!

Ugh this is so gross. Any man that talks to women like that, even anonymously, is just looking for reasons not to hire women and keep his good ol’ boys club going.

Agreed, but the "talk how you want to talk" is one of those women who expects the business and the world to revolve around her. For any person who does this, male or female, and more senior people recommend against it, take that advice to heart.

This makes no sense. No one is expecting the business and the world to revolve around them. They just want to talk how they naturally talk without being judged or discriminated against because of it. Some people have high voices, some people have low voices, raspy voices, stutters, vocal fry, vocal tics, disfluencies, accents, speech impediments...as long as you’re communicating clearly and respectfully it just doesn’t matter in most jobs. Your special snowflake ears will be okay.

But of all those things listed, vocal fry is the only one that’s an affectation. It’s not natural. I would similarly be annoyed by anyone who spoke in a fake British accent to try to sound smarter or more interesting.

Anonymous wrote:Everyone certainly has the right to speak how they want. But you can't control how people react to it.

I don't use vocal fry, but if I did when I see threads like this, I would change it for sure. Why continue to do something that so grates on others' nerves to this degree? It's really no different than a mentor long ago taking my dad aside and teaching how to dress more professionally. Should it have mattered? No. Did it? You better believe it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone certainly has the right to speak how they want. But you can't control how people react to it.

I don't use vocal fry, but if I did when I see threads like this, I would change it for sure. Why continue to do something that so grates on others' nerves to this degree? It's really no different than a mentor long ago taking my dad aside and teaching how to dress more professionally. Should it have mattered? No. Did it? You better believe it.

While you are absolutely right, today, your father's mentor would be labelled a racist, sexist or some other "ist" and his or her career ruined. Facts don't matter anymore, only how someone feels.

I'm not so sure. Certain professions really expect certain dress codes to be adhered to - lawyers, accounting firms, etc.

Then again, we had an intern at our large nonprofit office years ago, and this woman was wearing a skirt so short you could see her underwear lines under the (thankfully) heaving stockings. Some of us women debated taking her aside and saying "hey, may want to lengthen the skirts" in a friendly, mentor-style way, but then all agreed we wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. But we certainly did muse about it behind her back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone certainly has the right to speak how they want. But you can't control how people react to it.

I don't use vocal fry, but if I did when I see threads like this, I would change it for sure. Why continue to do something that so grates on others' nerves to this degree? It's really no different than a mentor long ago taking my dad aside and teaching how to dress more professionally. Should it have mattered? No. Did it? You better believe it.

While you are absolutely right, today, your father's mentor would be labelled a racist, sexist or some other "ist" and his or her career ruined. Facts don't matter anymore, only how someone feels.

Anonymous wrote:Everyone certainly has the right to speak how they want. But you can't control how people react to it.

I don't use vocal fry, but if I did when I see threads like this, I would change it for sure. Why continue to do something that so grates on others' nerves to this degree? It's really no different than a mentor long ago taking my dad aside and teaching how to dress more professionally. Should it have mattered? No. Did it? You better believe it.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There’s no reason it should harm careers except misogyny.

Upspeak makes you sound uncertain. That’s not misogyny. Women should unlearn it stay and also get rid of the vocal fry, which may also have its roots in trying to temper ones assertiveness.

— very liberal female

The idea that assertiveness is the best way to interact with work colleagues , vs say a softer collaborativeness, is I think a reflection of misogyny. I’ve been on teams that are largely women and the way things are discussed/decided can be markedly different than teams with a couple bros on them.

Exactly. The "assertive" style can quickly devolve into combative and often more ego driven than solution-driven. It is the default way of operating in many male dominated environments. Yes, women (and especially younger) do have to adapt to be heard in that environment, but when they/we have more influence, we should work to make the culture more inclusive and productive.

Why do we need inclusive cultures? Not everyone’s input is valid. This is why we have hierarchies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no reason it should harm careers except misogyny.

Upspeak makes you sound uncertain. That’s not misogyny. Women should unlearn it stay and also get rid of the vocal fry, which may also have its roots in trying to temper ones assertiveness.

— very liberal female

The idea that assertiveness is the best way to interact with work colleagues , vs say a softer collaborativeness, is I think a reflection of misogyny. I’ve been on teams that are largely women and the way things are discussed/decided can be markedly different than teams with a couple bros on them.

Exactly. The "assertive" style can quickly devolve into combative and often more ego driven than solution-driven. It is the default way of operating in many male dominated environments. Yes, women (and especially younger) do have to adapt to be heard in that environment, but when they/we have more influence, we should work to make the culture more inclusive and productive.

Why do we need inclusive cultures? Not everyone’s input is valid. This is why we have hierarchies.[/quote

But wait – I’m 20 something and just graduated with my masters in XX studies and wear glasses mainly for effect. I’m an expert in everything and deserve to use my vocal fry to sound like it. 😂